Can Drug Testing alone catch or stop DRUG cheats? - Richard Freedman on TripleM Radio

[dizzy]

Hi Bill . Just as a matter of interest , is there a period before race day that they are not allowed to be present or is it Ok as long as the're clear race day . If thats the case then some trainers would base their training regime around the use of steroids and what about EPO . Does EPO come under the same restrictions or lack there of . Thanks Mark

Mark

Go to www.harness.org.au on the right is a heading "search", click on search, then rules, type in 188 and it will take you to the relevant section

[dizzy]

@TripleV. It's going to be one long haul before everybody firstly understands the difference between therepautic and performance enhancing and then accepts it.

I'll think you will like this bit though. Ray Hadley gave a great analogy on the footy show last night (a show you've previously bagged!!). In harness racing terms his analogy was that a therepeutic drug only allows Oscar Lane to run like Oscar Lane, but a performance enhancing drug allows Oscar Lane to run like Christian Cullen.

Off the point of the topic, but Mark's comments reminded me.

Brenno that will help out some but the problem is the same substance can either be therapeutic or performance enhancing depending on the circumstances of its use. For example if the vet had given Franco Stalker boldonone after he returned from Randwick Equine Centre an emaciated wreck after they surgically repaired (and excellently) his fractured pastern then the use would definately have been therapeutic, but if I'd used it without an appropriate script from a vet in the lead up to a race, particularly in conjunction with a banned masking, sorry "interference" agent, then there is little doubt its use would be described as performance enhancing.

[dizzy]

Trish

Steroids are a prohibited substance on race day no debate there .....my point earlier is and remains their use is not banned, vets can and do still prescribe their use in both harness and thoroughbred horses in racing in Australia and are neither in breach of any laws or racing rules. There were some calls earlier in this thread calling for more out of competition testing to help control steroid use, simply that will not happen because their use is permitted just not too close to raceday.

And my question to you Bill remains that if Boldonone had been prescribed to Karloo Kix and Machwiper by a vet why has no vet come forward to take responsibility for as VVV calls it a "therapeutic overage" and both trainers publicly claimed they didn't know what Boldonone was?

I can think of 4 likely explanations for this
1/ the boldonone was obtained and administered without veterinary advice by someone connected to the respective stables.
2/ the boldonone was obtained from a dodgy vet but better to have the trainer take the fall with HRNSW then identify the vet and risk them loosing their veterinary licence thus putting an end to further supplies.
3/ an unknown person entered the stable and administered the boldonone, but neither trainer has suggested that to my knowledge.
4/ the positive was the result of a contamination issue with a feed supplement, don't think either camp has put that forward-worked for a trainer in India last year but not for the other 2 caught with him!


And no VVV it isn't Stephen King I read.

[teecee]

@TripleV. It's going to be one long haul before everybody firstly understands the difference between therepautic and performance enhancing and then accepts it.

I'll think you will like this bit though. Ray Hadley gave a great analogy on the footy show last night (a show you've previously bagged!!). In harness racing terms his analogy was that a therepeutic drug only allows Oscar Lane to run like Oscar Lane, but a performance enhancing drug allows Oscar Lane to run like Christian Cullen.

Off the point of the topic, but Mark's comments reminded me.

I dont know that it is that much off topic.
IMO it is a great analogy and filtering the vast amount of side show comments the real point of the issue.

[broncobrad]

I dont know that it is that much off topic.
IMO it is a great analogy and filtering the vast amount of side show comments the real point of the issue.

Teecee

The by play on this topic has been rivetting, especially for one member who stands to lose something so near and dear...and if the bloodhounds have their way, there is going to be a lot of screaming, crying and bloodspatter...you are in my prayers VVV.

[dizzy]

Teecee

The by play on this topic has been rivetting, especially for one member who stands to lose something so near and dear...and if the bloodhounds have their way, there is going to be a lot of screaming, crying and bloodspatter...you are in my prayers VVV.

Brad I fully expect VVV to stand by his bet, I'm not as forgiving as Jett and believe VVV confession is much like Shannon Wonsons EPO guilty plea, it only came after all other avenues were exhausted. However now that VVV has informed us of their impressive size I'm sure he will actually be relieved to lose them, I imagine the chaffing must be horrendous, and I'll give him the option of delivering them not in a sealed container but mounted where upon I will enter them in Bankstowns inaugarul Art Exhibition next month giving VVV full credit of course.

Jett I do understand what you are saying though, VVV does seem to let his emotions, and what he would like to be, over rule his judgement in many cases posting here. The other option as I see it would be VVV himself at times would return a positive swab-to a mind altering substance!

[dizzy]

VVV have I got this right-you have a problem with the "credibility" of Richard Freedman stating publicly, after approximetely 10 years now working in the media, that drug testing alone wont catch all the cheats because his brother 16 years ago had some contoversy over Encosta De Lago TCO2 levels, something that as you have been at pains to point out can be achieved by something from the supermarket, before a race whereby ultimately the horse was permitted to start no doubt by the Chairman of Stewards at the time?

But you don't have a problem with the "credibility" of a current harness trainer who has had a horse return a positive post race swab to a substance that at the very least the trainer should have been using under vet advice yet there is no vet to take resposibility for the "overage". Seems an awful lot like a case of double standards or seeing what you want to see.

As a matter of interest when you say a 1st, 2nd and 3rd test did you mean a test of 3 vials taken at the same time or 3 test on samples taken at different time? (I was in Europe then pursuing other interests)

[teecee]

Teecee

The by play on this topic has been rivetting, especially for one member who stands to lose something so near and dear...and if the bloodhounds have their way, there is going to be a lot of screaming, crying and bloodspatter...you are in my prayers VVV.

Brad.. To some it may be rivetting but others are telling me it is something else. Indeed some are urging Zorro to take some action..if you know what I mean.
My own view really is that some posts are very close to the edge with the chop coming very soon from an unexpected direction and Jaimie wont be the victim.

[broncobrad]

Hey Zorro...I am sure the light-hearted banter should be taken with a grain of salt as most posters would agree. But alas, I feel you are sharpening your sword as I type. There are definitely two distinct lines of thinking on this subject and all posters know what the boundarys are with their comments. There is still a lot more to be said on this topic. As long as they keep the libel out of it, can we be spared the snip?

[Lethal]

Brad, I think you have stated the thinking that occupies the minds of everyone who takes this subject seriously. Without robust discussion, those that are apologists for people who are prepared to push the boundaries of the current rules will try to shout down any opposition. With a loud enough voice change can happen, albeit slowly. Don't give up.