Too much crapping on about ITMQ turned me off a bit - all the 'silence the doubters' and 'shut up anyone who doesnt think he's clearly the best now' type talk shoving it down people's throats.
I made a comment about his record with/without Smoken Up's presence and got jumped on.
I still stand by the comment that Smoken Up has always been a better horse than ITMQ - up until the last 6 months or so. Adam Hamilton's twitter campaign has been nauseating.
Dan
I also take issue with this. In fact, you could not be more wrong. The commercial breeder doesnt gain anything from this. The whole purpose of the original report( some 18 months ago) was to try and stimulate the HOBBY breeder. Hobby breeders account for around 90% of all foals born and they have been leaving the industry in droves or simply not breeding. The breeders panel report made numerous suggestions as to how to possibly reverse this trend. These included creating a national mares credit scheme, more fillies and mares races, increased bonuses for fillies and mares winning their first race etc.
Unfortunately, HRA and the various state bodies decided to implement higher import fees without any detail as to how the resulting revenue is to be used other than to say for "breeding iniatives". This is very disappointing, as the panel members including myself, have now been attacked as having been the brains behind the import tax, when in fact all we proposed was measures to try and get more foals on the ground and create more opportunities for fillies and mares so that people are more likely to breed from them.
I forgot to mention, that I personally import 5-10 horses every year from both USA and NZ. I also breed in NZ and get horses up and going with a view to selling to Aust. So, for people to say that I am going to benefit under this new fee is just plain ridiculous.
G'day Harvey,Originally Posted by mightymo
supply and demand mate, if you manipulate the supply and it's costs you will manipulate demand, demand is what supports price in any competitve market, thats how I, in fact could not be more right. So to say the commercial breeder doesn't gain anything from this could not be more either naive or wrong, take your pick.
I am one of those people who are the hobby breeders you refer to and we mainly are also owners...breeding our own to race (hopefully). I believe the reason behind hobby breeders breeding less is because owners are leaving the game in the droves, the reasons for this are many, but if you ran an exit poll I believe the majority would say prizemoney levels, followed by integrity issues.
I have been around this game for a long time, about 45 of my 55 years and I have never seen such density in the winning trainers as we are seeing, in particular over the last 6 or 7 years......like it/believe it or not there is at least a PERCEPTION that something untoward is happening..and you know the saying "perception is reality" and owners are leaving the game, not soley because of this, but some certainly are saying so.
If this increased tax is supposedly designed to encourage hobby breeders to breed more foals it has therfore missed the mark by a country mile!!!
As I said in my response to Anne, I think the tax on the going horses is most excessive and just adds further to the costs of our poor battered owners.
Cheers,
Dan
Maybe its our Industry's version of the CARBON TAX
In my humble opinion one of the best ways to stimulate the hobby breeder is to instill some sort of above average hope that their offspring will sell & or have somewhere to race if they are just average units..this element of harness racing seems to have been eliminated...I have seen so many hobby breeders & local stallion owners lost to the sport through this point alone...When I first became a licencee there was an abundance of local grass roots racing catering for this level of breeding..ie you bred a horse with so much more scope of being something than it offers today.
It doesnt take rocket science to work out that declining genuine opportunitys,AT ALL LEVELS,of breeding something that can be more than dog meat = less breeding by the hobbyist..
Harvey made the point of nearly 90% of all foals born are from the "hobbyist" sector...yet it seems that due to declining energies & resources being directed to the grass roots level of our sport this 90% is being seemingly "squeezed" out
I was banned from posting and had a thread removed for throwing P Ferguson under the bus for his drive in the Auckland Cup. Hung out ROFL !! The stewards bought it, I suggested 12 weeks minimum.
Now I've thrown many a driver under the bus on this forum, P Ferguson the first Kiwi driver. The forum moderator is fine with Aussie bashing, just leave the hapless Kiwi's alone : )
Although I take personal exception to your comments about my alleged support for Aussie bashing and believe you should be sanctioned for same in this instance I'm going to leave your post above intact so that it can be referred to relative to this post.
The problem is that your post, as consistent with your latest, was a direct and deliberate attack on named persons where there was no evidence to substantiate your claim.
I don't know what race you were watching. I'm sure it wasn't the same Auckland Cup I was watching but okay you can have your opinion.
A few things for you to consider when accusing the stewards panel of being incompetent and the chief steward of lying in his meeting report...(and when you want to use your race analysis talents on NZ racing)
1.. whether you like it or not the race was run in NZ under the NZ rules of harness racing. Clearly you are not familiar with the rules governing the meeting. They are available in full on www.hrnz.co.nz for you to be more au fait next time.
2.. The stewards have access to upto 5 various angles of your so claimed incident. You as a TV viewer has one.
3.. If what you claim happened then under NZ rules it would be G Hall Jnr facing a charge not P Ferguson. NZ rules allow drivers to push out and displace other outside runners within the last 1000m of a race. They don't allow pushing in as you claim G Hall Jnr cleverly "shut the gate" I guess what you think you saw and claimed in your post didn't happen.
4.. Just to enlighten you further..Driving penalties are more consistently managed in NZ. Suspension are not handed out willy nilly. they are based on the number of drives a driver may lose in that period of stand down. As per agreed guidelines drawn up in consultation with all interested parties including the NZ harness racing trainers and drivers assn. Race penalties in NZ are not at the whim and desire of the stewards based on what side of the bed they got out that day.
Stewards in NZ don't make the rules. They police the rules made by other consulted parties of all stakeholders.
Your post was deleted for as I told you at the time...
You accused the stewards of lying because their view of a race incident as written in their report did not concur with your view. They have better resources and knowledge than you as a punter / viewer to determine what happens in a race and why.
Your claim that Mr Ferguson had breached the rules and should be outed is not based on any sense of reality of the situation or the rules.
I repeat Please do not call people Liars on this forum when you don't know the rules under which they operate nor the resources with which to judge.
Finally I doubt that your claim that I support Aussie bashing will garner much support from those in this forum whose posts have gone the same way as yours for the same reason. I can't see that changing sadly. When one leaves another inevitably takes their place.
Personally there is plenty of opinion I read on here I don't agree with and with 40 plus years experience in every aspect of the racing industry from television, wagering, on track services, Stud work, breeding, ownership, training, administration...you name it...Clearly there is much I have read here I didn't know nor believe or it may not all be true but an opinion honestly thought through supporting their view of the ISSUE is what fills these pages and enlightens the masses.
What the forum moderator.. quote you.. is not fine with and has received plenty of support not just from members but also those non members who come onto the forum to read the great material as guests, is people who come on here think to hell with the rules, to hell with any thought of what they are writing, to hell with who they may be insulting... just go for it eh. And then shock horror, cry wolf..are gobsmacked that the defamatory trash they write has miraculously disappeared. Then they whinge and moan..."I didn't do anything wrong. my post was unfairly deleted. Let's bag someone else. Can't think of anyone... I know what about the moderator(s). Unfortunately there seems to be always one out there determined to bag and slag off just for the hell of it. They can expect short lives here.
This thread is about why the forum has gone quiet in recent times. The forum may go quiet at times. It has been so since its inception but it always comes to life again with sensible well thought out and researched material backing up opinions. IMO the first post to entitle this thread is the latest of many such examples. You don't see these posts nor the regular members who post in a positive and thoughtful manner whingeing where their posts have gone or why they are on enforced holidays. That must seem strange, in light of your closing offering cos the vast majority of them are Aussies.
Last edited by teecee; 03-20-2013 at 03:55 PM.
Anybody looking for some light reading.
I located this thread. I haven't had time to read it over yet.
http://www.harnessracingforum.com/sh...ghlight=import
Yes the original intent of the thread was to stimulate conversation and invite fresh faces and ideas. It has become a hotchpotch of views with a sprinkle of vitriol thrown in for good measure. Brenno, the 3 heat series will always be my preference for the ID, but then again if I had my way we would still be racing at Harold Park. Times change and I am moving right along with them. NSW really deserved one centre of excellence and what they are building out at Menangle is worthy of such praise.
In regard to the increased tax on imports, I am 100% in agreement with someone like Johnny Tapp who to me is the embodiment of the smaller owner/trainer who is appalled by the huge increases. These may be trifling numbers for the folks with big pockets but if the 90% of hobbyists as alluded to by Harvey is to try to help stimulate growth in that sector, well it just does not make sense. There are a couple of conversations going on here at the same time. Is the aim to invigorate the Oz breeding industry? Are the hobbyists really being helped with the impost of a grossly unfair tax (and how does that help them, let alone stop them from just walking away)? Is this designed to keep the breeders happy by selling for premium prices with stock being aimed at breeders bonus scheme races where very few owners ever reap the majority of prizemoney/bonus's? And again as Anne has mentioned where will all this money really go? How is this not just an attack on the NZ marketplace where there are plenty of horses at 'the right price' available for sale?
Surely if we are trying to save our racing stock from an early demise through lack of opportunity after they reach their mark at an early age/are not competitive in breeders races etc, surely the programming of events such as mares/fillies etc needs to be looked at. Just because the animal is slow shouldn't mean it still cannot be competitive amongst similarly graded horses/geldings/mares/fillies. Surely harness racing authorities need to shoulder some of the blame or atleast work towards a fairer solution for all. Condemning slow horses and the owners that foot the bills to extinction is not the way to go.
Yes Bailey, this is the Carbon Tax the industry did not need to have.
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