Sires 13/14

[broco]

How can you get christian fire from lyell creeks direct family?
As for he wont see quality my small band of mares are some that many big breeders envy so im sure even if he does only see my own mares if hes got it in him he'll have every chance to prove himself.
And as for the they are full brothers so given the same book they would have the same results thats been proven wrong so many times, as you like to compare to the thoroughbreds here is a great example lonhro and niello both given great starts to stud careers 1 succeeded and the other was very disappointing, so just because they are brothers does not give a horse a guarantee of being a good sire

[BenScadden]

Spot on, Viv. Experience tell us there's a good chance that a nicely related, moderately performed stallion will fail. That may be in part due to lack of opportunity but, as mentioned earlier, Cullen didn't serve top-shelf mares in his first seasons but still was a whacking success.

The reality - proven over and over again - is that full-brothers may be genetically identical ... but they don't produce identical performances (both on the track and in the breeding barn).

Certainly there's a science to breeding - but there's a whole lot more to it than that.

Michael, you were looking for feedback from people with experience in breeding. I think you've achieved your aim.

Good luck

[Richard prior]

Sorry Michael but I totally agree with Viv on this one, That would be turning back the clock for standardbred breeders, We have a choice of the very best stallions, Art Major, Mach Three, Bettor's Delight etc and performance on the track and in the barn makes a huge difference these days, In the past we would have had a choice of going to a lesser performed and well related stallion but mostly this turned into a disaster for a lot of breeders. I'm all for personal preference with stallion choices but when you have access to the very best, You increase the odds of breeding a very good horse.

[hillbillydeluxe]

that doesn't make any sense- if they are genetically full brothers they have identical chromosomes etc the difference is the type of mares that book to them. in science any animal that shares identic blood would breed the same but horses are different as the same mare for example has not been to Christian Cullen and the Julius Caesar and the big difference is say Christian Cullen serves 100 mares and his fertility is 85% then 85 are foaled on the other hand Julius Caesar has much lower fertility at 65% and serves 100 mares he has 65 foaled approx. so numbers are different due to fertility.
The fact remains that the stallions that are full brothers are genetically the same have not served the same mares so you cannot compare results with progeny.
I am guessing Monique that you are standing Christian Fire? if so he just does not get sent mares of any quality which will reflect in progeny. As for saying breeding with better stallions you pay $9k for a good stallion or say $6k but its hypothetical on your belief as if a sire has never served any mares how can you predict his progeny.
The only relevance is what opportunity does he receive? any sire must get his chance with decent or quality mares to measure his worth.

[Viv Strangman]

that doesn't make any sense- if they are genetically full brothers they have identical chromosomes etc the difference is the type of mares that book to them. in science any animal that shares identic blood would breed the same but horses are different as the same mare for example has not been to Christian Cullen and the Julius Caesar and the big difference is say Christian Cullen serves 100 mares and his fertility is 85% then 85 are foaled on the other hand Julius Caesar has much lower fertility at 65% and serves 100 mares he has 65 foaled approx. so numbers are different due to fertility.
The fact remains that the stallions that are full brothers are genetically the same have not served the same mares so you cannot compare results with progeny.
I am guessing Monique that you are standing Christian Fire? if so he just does not get sent mares of any quality which will reflect in progeny. As for saying breeding with better stallions you pay $9k for a good stallion or say $6k but its hypothetical on your belief as if a sire has never served any mares how can you predict his progeny.
The only relevance is what opportunity does he receive? any sire must get his chance with decent or quality mares to measure his worth.

I am sorry Michael that is just not the way it works in the real world. The great stallions leave quality horses regardless of the quality of the mares. When Christian Cullen went to stud their was a real antipathy towards colonial bred stallions.His numbers and the quality of those mares was low initially but he left outstanding horses anyway. When he received bigger numbers and better quality, the resultant stock weren't any better than his initial stock.

[Triple V]

http://jcinternational.co.nz/stallions-sold/

2nd column. 4th from the bottom.

[Triple V]

Also....BETTERTHANCHEDDAR to stand in AUS this season. Outstanding horse. Will do a great job here.

[Viv Strangman]

If you were to stand Sportswriter in South Australia you would get the same result from standing him in Canada.
Complete domination of a weak sires stakes programme.
If people don't realise how weak Canada has become then yes you are misleading them.
As I have said several times already, until they compete against the best it is impossible to draw any conclusions about how good the Sportswriters are.

[eliteblood]

If you were to stand Sportswriter in South Australia you would get the same result from standing him in Canada.

If Mach Three, Camluck, Shadow Play, Jereme's Jet, Artistic Fella and Badlands Hanover also stood in South Australia, I would bet against Meadow Skipper siring 13 out of 13 sires stakes winners.

[Viv Strangman]

What about him standing with any of the following; Art Major - American Ideal - Bettors Delight - Rocknroll Heaven - Well Said - Somebeachsomewhere - Western Ideal
to mention just a few.
In a different league to whats standing in Canada.
When the Sportswriters can compete with those stallions then he has made it.
That meeting is going to happen in the not to distant future so all the questions will be answered.
He could be the real deal but we won't know until the classics are run.
And Trev if you want to have a look at what a dominant first season sire looks like in a competitive state, check out the 2012 Pennsylvania Sires Stakes program.