Hall Jnrs demolition derby

[Richard prior]

Hell Yeh, Totally agree VVV. Come on Ash, It's time to Man Up and bury the hatchet.

[Maorisidol]

Thanks for clarifying that Big K, I should have seen the stewards report before making statements that G.Hall Jnr was guilty. So I apologize to G.Hall Jnr and I'm removing all the guilty wording from my above posting.
Oh dear Ash, any words of remorse from you and a belated apology?

Really interesting thing u said there Rod, "I should have seen the stewards report before making statements that GHall was guilty."
So before u knew the stewards report, based on your evidence like me of watching the race, Rod from Fremantle thought Hall was guilty.
U even said he was guilty to all 10 or so questions I asked u about "the incident". Guilty to being unsafe Rod, your words mate...
This is even what the race caller said at the time of the incident, "oooh, that got a bit rough there, he came away from the inside Hall Jnr and turned sideways there was Takeabow, a couple of others slightly inconvenienced, and one galloped and that was Trent's Courage..."
So everyone is traveling along nicely and safely and then who caused things to get " a bit rough"??????????????????????????
Hall Jnr.
But he did nothing wrong. Are u serious? Please...
Then stewards give their report and now he's not guilty as the rules go. I accept that.
I just don't agree with such a ridiculous situation as to where that when he pulled out he pushed out the horse next to him and, THIS CAUSED A WHOLE BUNCH OF INTERFERENCE WHERE ONE DRIVER NEARLY GOT TIPPED OUT AND ANOTHER HORSE GALLOPED OUT OF THE RACE.
crazy in my opinion that rule. What a technicality that in that situation leaves no blame to men or horses potentially being harmed. And seemingly in the stewards description that Hall moved theoretically correctly, if someone did get tipped out it would have been no ones fault
Question, why don't we see this type of driving in the Eastern states?
Does Bathurst not have this rule? It's a little track?
Seriously can someone in Australia explain why we don't see this type of incident AS PREVALENT (not one situation every blue moon, and I cannot remember seeing one in the last, I don't know when!) in the Eastern states?

[Maorisidol]

Hi Ash

.The horse he was driving was travelling quite fiercely and in fact could have led to a more serious consequence had he not moved when he did.
Have a nice day.

Bollocks.
Personally I didn't see his horse traveling fiercely.
I agree it travelled a little ungenerously...
However if a horse is pulling fiercely, a driver would be almost hanging out the back of the cart trying to restrain it from pulling too hard, and if u watch the replay, Jnr is totally upright, his arms are not seemingly outstretched struggling in anyway.
If u watch the horse for at least half a lap before, he certainly was not settled and was definitely wanting to get on with the job, but and here's my major belief, Jnr to me seemed totally ABLE to control the horse. If it was out of control and a potential "more serious" situation was going to happen Hall would have HAD to push out earlier.
Is that not common sense if it was SOOOO fierce and out of control? he totally may have been working hard, but he was in control.
If anyone reckons he was not controlling that horse, that's an insult to him!
He was merely waiting for the bell lap, and then out he goes cos the rules say it's ok.

[Danno]

This is one of those times where our game is made to look crook no matter what way we go. The rule in WA obviously allow for pushing out and the Stewards there obviously rule accordingly, I haven't seen anyone complaining about horses getting caught on the inside at GP so I assume so.

Someone was bagging Mark Purdon the other day because he didn't get out 'til the show was over but that was in in NZ not WA was it??

'Bout time our industry heads got together on this one because punters are getting confused and hence irritated due to the lack of consistency and subsequent understanding of the rules.

Many years ago ( 1970?)Phil Coulson won the interdominion final in New Zealand on "Juniours Image" , he had a time of it getting that horse into the clear around 800m from home, but at the time in NZ they had a rule allowing drivers to push out and I have to say in my opinion it was a great drive! certainly not a drive where Phil Coulson should have been getting bagged.

When I had my first few drives in 1975 in NSW there was no push out allowed and I copped a few holidays for getting horses out into winning positions ( I always thought that was what punters wanted) through pushing out.

A few years ago in NSW we were allowed to push out anytime in the last lap and the length of the home straight........a rule I thought was pretty good for both drivers and punters, now we have a rule where you are allowed to push out at the "Candy Pole", which would be OK if the people driving had any idea about how to push out safely and the stipes had any idea what that actually means!! I have seen so many unsafe botched attempts at pushing out in the last few years it makes you wonder!!

One of our so called "professional" drivers here in the Hunter Valley tipped one of his mates out a while back and had absolutely NFID how he had done it...I was 3 wide outside them on the home turn watching it unfold,.... incredulous that the "professional" had absolutely no idea what he was about to do to his mate!!!

The rules need to be conformed both interstae in Aus and with our mates across the ditch, and if the rules are then allowing a push out factor we should then have some training for ALL drivers on how to do it safely.

BTW, I thought Jnrs drive was a pearler, the galloping and other interference was a by product of that drive, but that was because the racing room was very restricted right at the moment he pushed out, maybe because the other drivers could see what he was up to and were trying to close up in response.

cheers,

Dan

[Maorisidol]

If you're a fan of Karma ... He lost the last race on protest. If you've not seen the last, take a look. That looked dangerously obvious.

What goes around comes around.

Obvious alright.
If u watch his hands in driving the horse into the straight at least 2, maybe 3 times he pulls on the right reign and u can see the horses mouth/head turn right ever so slightly each time and of course steers itself thru the drivers direction towards the middle of the track.
Why would Hall do this?
Why would he steer his horse out in front of another that was coming up to challenge and look a great threat to him losing the race?
What? To get in its way? NO. He is a nice man with lots of Group 1 wins, lots of wins every week, he is G Hall Jnr "master reinsman, the brilliance of the man speaks for itself", quoted from Rod from Fremantle, thnx Rod.
Yep.
And his actions say a lot about what makes him tick, his personal and professional ethics, and the type of man he is.
Unfortunately for his obvious high level of skills and no doubt he is a high skilled driver, I have never said he is not, I find some of his actions aren't for me and are also not for the stewards... (Very carefully choosing my words here, I can feel Teecee looking over my shoulder!!! And Rod!!!

[Big K]

Hello Ash
I took liberty to cut and paste parts of your comments.Facts and opinions shouldnt be intertwined

I really don't like this person. (this is a fact)
f**k you! I don't care if I push you over or hurt you or your horse! I need to win this race" (this is your opinion)
set those records in tiny town over there living in your little bubble knowing that a man is also judged on character, Honour, self respect and integrity (this is your opinion on WA and Hall)
Roddy, because of your thick richly red WA blood coursing thru your veins and the subsequent one eyed passionate parochial view of all things WA that you have, unfortunately when anyone (and mostly me I think, which is fine) simply has a different opinion to you, it's all about WA bashing and not about facts, seemingly in your mind. (the facts are written in the stewards report,you have only written your opinion on being a West Aussie))
He caused one driver to be actually unseated, who was lucky enough to remain in the cart. (not true,this is your opinion)
He caused one horse to gallop cos it was checked in the mayhem and have then no chance in the race. How would you feel if u owned those horses Rod? (not true,this is your opinion)
Mate, I was talking facts of what happened. (no,you talked only of your opinion)
And sometimes in life when you or another person does something wrong and are guilty, he or she, and the followers of that person or that footy team or that political party or whatever need to man up, cop it on the chin and say, "you know what I did wrong, he did wrong, they did wrong, I accept that and acknowledge that behavior isn't right." (Please refer to the stewards report)
Bollocks.
Personally I didn't see his horse traveling fiercely (In my opininion it was)
What? To get in its way? NO. He is a nice man with lots of Group 1 wins, lots of wins every week, he is G Hall Jnr "master reinsman, the brilliance of the man speaks for itself", quoted from Rod from Fremantle, thnx Rod. (???????)

I think the first comment completely covers all of your opinions expressed in the above. You may not like him Ash but a lot of people do,I dont think he is that bad of a person but I guess that its only my opinion.

Have a nice day

[Maorisidol]

Hello Ash
I took liberty to cut and paste parts of your comments.Facts and opinions shouldnt be intertwined

I really don't like this person. (this is a fact)
f**k you! I don't care if I push you over or hurt you or your horse! I need to win this race" (this is your opinion)
set those records in tiny town over there living in your little bubble knowing that a man is also judged on character, Honour, self respect and integrity (this is your opinion on WA and Hall)
Roddy, because of your thick richly red WA blood coursing thru your veins and the subsequent one eyed passionate parochial view of all things WA that you have, unfortunately when anyone (and mostly me I think, which is fine) simply has a different opinion to you, it's all about WA bashing and not about facts, seemingly in your mind. (the facts are written in the stewards report,you have only written your opinion on being a West Aussie))
He caused one driver to be actually unseated, who was lucky enough to remain in the cart. (not true,this is your opinion)
He caused one horse to gallop cos it was checked in the mayhem and have then no chance in the race. How would you feel if u owned those horses Rod? (not true,this is your opinion)
Mate, I was talking facts of what happened. (no,you talked only of your opinion)
And sometimes in life when you or another person does something wrong and are guilty, he or she, and the followers of that person or that footy team or that political party or whatever need to man up, cop it on the chin and say, "you know what I did wrong, he did wrong, they did wrong, I accept that and acknowledge that behavior isn't right." (Please refer to the stewards report)
Bollocks.
Personally I didn't see his horse traveling fiercely (In my opininion it was)
What? To get in its way? NO. He is a nice man with lots of Group 1 wins, lots of wins every week, he is G Hall Jnr "master reinsman, the brilliance of the man speaks for itself", quoted from Rod from Fremantle, thnx Rod. (???????)

I think the first comment completely covers all of your opinions expressed in the above. You may not like him Ash but a lot of people do,I dont think he is that bad of a person but I guess that its only my opinion.

Have a nice day

Thanks Big Kev,
More to the point i dont like his actions really. I am sure from what i have seen of him hes probably a nice bloke, but even nice blokes sometimes do things that arent great, we are all human after all.
My main gripe is when you do have a highly skilled individual who is very successful and therefore does "represent" the sport in a way more than others because of his/her profile, i get disappointed when they do things like Gary has done in the past and been suspended for (fact, not my opinion). now most drivers get a holiday every now and then but his history is peppered with some unfortunate suspensions that questions his character (the whip incident). fact.
I guess i could sum it up and say, in my opinion Kev, he wouldnt be winning a Best and FAIREST driver award.
anyway enough of this topic from me i am sure lots of people are getting bored, over and out.

[Triple V]

The various views of the rights or wrongs of Jnr's actions aside (I haven't seen the race in question), something that I think a lot of people need to keep in mind here is that Racing is like many other sports, Soccer for example, you play to the Ref's whistle or the Linesman's flag.
To do anything less is to lose, plain & simple.
The task set of the Stewards is to police the sport whilst the task set of the Driver is to win the race or if not then ensure his/her horse finishes in the best posssible position.
It is not and it never has been up to the Drivers to self regulate. They work within the confines dictated by the actions/views/edicts of the Stewards.
In fact they should and are for mine totally expected to do everything possible within the framework of their local Stewards interpretation of the Rules in order to win races for their Owners.
In this case, if the WA Stewards are Ok with Jnr pushing out in such a fashion then given his mission in each & every race is to win then why on Earth would he not do so until such time as he is told otherwise?

[Maorisidol]

The various views of the rights or wrongs of Jnr's actions aside (I haven't seen the race in question), something that I think a lot of people need to keep in mind here is that Racing is like many other sports, Soccer for example, you play to the Ref's whistle or the Linesman's flag.
To do anything less is to lose, plain & simple.
The task set of the Stewards is to police the sport whilst the task set of the Driver is to win the race or if not then ensure his/her horse finishes in the best posssible position.
It is not and it never has been up to the Drivers to self regulate. They work within the confines dictated by the actions/views/edicts of the Stewards.
In fact they should and are for mine totally expected to do everything possible within the framework of their local Stewards interpretation of the Rules in order to win races for their Owners.
In this case, if the WA Stewards are Ok with Jnr pushing out in such a fashion then given his mission in each & every race is to win then why on Earth would he not do so until such time as he is told otherwise?

Race 1 last Fri at GP Jaimie...go have a look, and pretend u know nothing of this thread, watch the race so u actually see the incident from the perspective of someone who has watched trotting races as long as u have, and I would be interested in knowing your initial gut feelings...

[Mighty Atom]

Really interesting thing u said there Rod, "I should have seen the stewards report before making statements that GHall was guilty."
So before u knew the stewards report, based on your evidence like me of watching the race, Rod from Fremantle thought Hall was guilty.
U even said he was guilty to all 10 or so questions I asked u about "the incident". Guilty to being unsafe Rod, your words mate...
This is even what the race caller said at the time of the incident, "oooh, that got a bit rough there, he came away from the inside Hall Jnr and turned sideways there was Takeabow, a couple of others slightly inconvenienced, and one galloped and that was Trent's Courage..."
So everyone is traveling along nicely and safely and then who caused things to get " a bit rough"??????????????????????????
Hall Jnr.
But he did nothing wrong. Are u serious? Please...
Then stewards give their report and now he's not guilty as the rules go. I accept that.
I just don't agree with such a ridiculous situation as to where that when he pulled out he pushed out the horse next to him and, THIS CAUSED A WHOLE BUNCH OF INTERFERENCE WHERE ONE DRIVER NEARLY GOT TIPPED OUT AND ANOTHER HORSE GALLOPED OUT OF THE RACE.
crazy in my opinion that rule. What a technicality that in that situation leaves no blame to men or horses potentially being harmed. And seemingly in the stewards description that Hall moved theoretically correctly, if someone did get tipped out it would have been no ones fault
Question, why don't we see this type of driving in the Eastern states?
Does Bathurst not have this rule? It's a little track?
Seriously can someone in Australia explain why we don't see this type of incident AS PREVALENT (not one situation every blue moon, and I cannot remember seeing one in the last, I don't know when!) in the Eastern states?

Yep, I said Hall was guilty but my opinion doesn't count, the stewards in W.A. do allow to push out and G.Hall Jnr is a master of it and the stewards are the adjudicators. Should have kept my mouth shut until I saw the report. So if my opinion doesn't hold up on the guilty charge neither does yours. As I've said before it's a gladiator arena at G.P where only the strongest survive.