How can it be good for Australia to have the NZers come and take all the prizemoney?

[Messenger]

Not even Boort is safe

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...ic#BTC27011707

[Messenger]

The Purdons' have taken pity on Australia/Vic and have no runners in the last 2 at Melton tonight (nor the 3rd race or they would have been looking at driving or training 8 in a row)

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...X280117&ms=vic

[The Escape Club]

The Purdons' have taken pity on Australia/Vic and have no runners in the last 2 at Melton tonight (nor the 3rd race or they would have been looking at driving or training 8 in a row)

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...X280117&ms=vic

His 4 year old, Lets Chase The Dream won the last at Menangle breaking 1.50.

[Fan of Jate]

AS per post 32. I cant work out what the handicapper has done in the group 3 trot race but the kiwi horse was gifted this race due to its 20m handicap, connections must have been laughing their box off even before the race was run and won. Someone may be able to explain it in this forum.

[Showgrounds]

Interesting thread. While jealousy appears rife at the Purdon / Rasmussen success last night demonstrated how superior their horses are - and they as trainers.

The local 3 year-olds are just so-so this year; Motu Meteor is a nice horse but not one I'd rate as a genuine Derby colt in any other season. Jacks Legend started favourite over Vincent at Addington on Show Day - Vincent blew him away! Interesting comment on the TV - whoever it was said Vincent wouldn't have been in the top 5 3yos in the stable at the start of the season. Stupid comment - he won his only start (beating Ultimate Machete easily) before injury put him out. Was to have come here for the Australian Gold. Now is payback time, the Derby looks his to lose.

Lazarus is a bona-fide champion already and he will no doubt be remembered for many decades. At Menangle, the only horse to have beaten him TWICE won going 1:49.9 - Chase the Dream. How he gets assessed as a C3 is beyond me. Then again, the greatest crime a horse can commit in NZ is to be consistent and win races! The handicapping system ensures their careers are brief.

Somebody mentioned previously any trainer could win with Allstars horses. They probably could, just not with consistency and we tend to send our horses around to often. Check out the careers of all the Allstars team and you will see they are sparingly raced, eg, Smolda 64 starts, 50% win rate and rising 9 years! This can't be done without good, patient owners of course. Look at the depth of experience in the sport most of their owners have and you get a feel for what I am on about. No syndicates of 20 drinking mates from the local footy club who just want to see their colours go around. Just plenty of business people not devoid of a dollar and, usually, prior success with good horses.

Then there are the trainers and staff. No mugs allowed, obviously. Their training methods appear highly advanced. Mark has long been known as a perfectionist and Blacks A Fake did not achieve what he did just by going jiggy-joggy for half an our every morning with two hopplings and a day off every week. Nat is a great trainer in her own right and not one to tolerate pussys. A very brave trainer, indeed, one who takes an Allstar cast-off with the intent of improving them.

So, great trainers with incredibly good facilities and staff, plenty of impeccably bred, high quality yearlings coming through every season with cashed-up, patient owners who understand the pain and disappointment that can occur appears to be a large part of the stable's success. The horses always look great and appear fitter than many of their opposition. Any ordinary run appears to be forensically examined and you never hear weak excuses. And some will say luck, I say they make their own.

Good luck to them all, they are enjoying the times of their lives!

[aussiebreno]

Interesting thread. While jealousy appears rife at the Purdon / Rasmussen success last night demonstrated how superior their horses are - and they as trainers.

The local 3 year-olds are just so-so this year; Motu Meteor is a nice horse but not one I'd rate as a genuine Derby colt in any other season. Jacks Legend started favourite over Vincent at Addington on Show Day - Vincent blew him away! Interesting comment on the TV - whoever it was said Vincent wouldn't have been in the top 5 3yos in the stable at the start of the season. Stupid comment - he won his only start (beating Ultimate Machete easily) before injury put him out. Was to have come here for the Australian Gold. Now is payback time, the Derby looks his to lose.

Lazarus is a bona-fide champion already and he will no doubt be remembered for many decades. At Menangle, the only horse to have beaten him TWICE won going 1:49.9 - Chase the Dream. How he gets assessed as a C3 is beyond me. Then again, the greatest crime a horse can commit in NZ is to be consistent and win races! The handicapping system ensures their careers are brief.

Somebody mentioned previously any trainer could win with Allstars horses. They probably could, just not with consistency and we tend to send our horses around to often. Check out the careers of all the Allstars team and you will see they are sparingly raced, eg, Smolda 64 starts, 50% win rate and rising 9 years! This can't be done without good, patient owners of course. Look at the depth of experience in the sport most of their owners have and you get a feel for what I am on about. No syndicates of 20 drinking mates from the local footy club who just want to see their colours go around. Just plenty of business people not devoid of a dollar and, usually, prior success with good horses.

Then there are the trainers and staff. No mugs allowed, obviously. Their training methods appear highly advanced. Mark has long been known as a perfectionist and Blacks A Fake did not achieve what he did just by going jiggy-joggy for half an our every morning with two hopplings and a day off every week. Nat is a great trainer in her own right and not one to tolerate pussys. A very brave trainer, indeed, one who takes an Allstar cast-off with the intent of improving them.

So, great trainers with incredibly good facilities and staff, plenty of impeccably bred, high quality yearlings coming through every season with cashed-up, patient owners who understand the pain and disappointment that can occur appears to be a large part of the stable's success. The horses always look great and appear fitter than many of their opposition. Any ordinary run appears to be forensically examined and you never hear weak excuses. And some will say luck, I say they make their own.

Good luck to them all, they are enjoying the times of their lives!

Agreed - the man is a genius and planned both of Smolda long term injuries.

[teecee]

[QUOTE=Showgrounds;49604]Interesting thread. While jealousy appears rife at the Purdon / Rasmussen success last night demonstrated how superior their horses are - and they as trainers.

Interesting comment on the TV - whoever it was said Vincent wouldn't have been in the top 5 3yos in the stable at the start of the season. Stupid comment - he won his only start (beating Ultimate Machete easily) before injury put him out.

That comment was initially made by the trainers in regards these horses at 2. That is not to say they are poor judges. It was simply a comment on how each of their youngsters rates against their contemporaries in the stable. At that same time Horses like Ultimate Machete and Waikiki Beach didn't rate in the 5 either. It is a graphic of the strength of their young horses coming up and each year is more astounding than the last.
Time has shown how AllStars can assess the best opportunities for their horses. Ultimate Machete developed to become No1 3yo as he grew into his massive frame and Waikiki Beach plundered 23 straight in Australia where his best options lay rather than just going round behind his "Better rated" stablemates.
While many can only see change when you have been away and come back, the All Stars trainers can see where their horses are at day in, day out and meet the changing needs of the individual horses placing them to greatest advantage for hose and connections.

Lazarus is a bona-fide champion already and he will no doubt be remembered for many decades. At Menangle, the only horse to have beaten him TWICE won going 1:49.9 - Chase the Dream. How he gets assessed as a C3 is beyond me.
[B]Refer post 44...

[teecee]

AS per post 32. I cant work out what the handicapper has done in the group 3 trot race but the kiwi horse was gifted this race due to its 20m handicap, connections must have been laughing their box off even before the race was run and won. Someone may be able to explain it in this forum.

The reason is such that this Thread exists. There are two types of horse that All Stars bring to Australia. It is extremely expensive to bring a horse from NZ to race and hence they are the cream of the crop such as Lazarus, Have Faith in Me,and Dream About Me. THe others like Prince Fearless, Chase the Dream and Picadilly Princess are those able to take full advantage of the Australian Handicapping system. This is something the All Stars do with excellent success. These horses have won most of there races and stakes in 2 and 3 year old restricted age and group races in NZ. Whilst they are recognised in NZ for handicapping they are not in Australia, hence they seriously drop down the grades in Australia.
Post 37 suggests the NZ handicapping system sucks. Many Australians would be thinking the Australian system sucks when they understand it is that very system that allows All Stars to plunder your stakes and races of all grades.

All Stars dont bemoan your system when it works against them either. They look for races to suit the needs and abilities of their horses. A classic case in point is the campaign of Picadilly Princess in West Australia during the Interdoms. Her program was to take in two Group races for fillies and mares assessed at M1 and faster. Unfortunately for the connections including the breeder of such a valuable mare(already a dual Group 1 winner) she was assessed under the Australian system as M0. Remember she was a dual G1 winner but they were both Oaks races for 3yo fillies only. i.e. handicap system took no account of that. Hence All Stars looked to alternatives that met her M0 status. a race well down on her class with the expected result.

[Messenger]

The reason is such that this Thread exists. There are two types of horse that All Stars bring to Australia. It is extremely expensive to bring a horse from NZ to race and hence they are the cream of the crop such as Lazarus, Have Faith in Me,and Dream About Me. THe others like Prince Fearless, Chase the Dream and Picadilly Princess are those able to take full advantage of the Australian Handicapping system. This is something the All Stars do with excellent success. These horses have won most of there races and stakes in 2 and 3 year old restricted age and group races in NZ. Whilst they are recognised in NZ for handicapping they are not in Australia, hence they seriously drop down the grades in Australia.
Post 37 suggests the NZ handicapping system sucks. Many Australians would be thinking the Australian system sucks when they understand it is that very system that allows All Stars to plunder your stakes and races of all grades.

All Stars dont bemoan your system when it works against them either. They look for races to suit the needs and abilities of their horses. A classic case in point is the campaign of Picadilly Princess in West Australia during the Interdoms. Her program was to take in two Group races for fillies and mares assessed at M1 and faster. Unfortunately for the connections including the breeder of such a valuable mare(already a dual Group 1 winner) she was assessed under the Australian system as M0. Remember she was a dual G1 winner but they were both Oaks races for 3yo fillies only. i.e. handicap system took no account of that. Hence All Stars looked to alternatives that met her M0 status. a race well down on her class with the expected result.

Yes Tony and with the far greater racing opportunities over here, it means there will always be a market for NZ horses. I guess it sort of makes up for the fewer racing ops and means many of your owner/breeders are sellers - don't they say that every NZ horse is for sale (for the right price)

[teecee]

Yes Tony and with the far greater racing opportunities over here, it means there will always be a market for NZ horses. I guess it sort of makes up for the fewer racing ops and means many of your owner/breeders are sellers - don't they say that every NZ horse is for sale (for the right price)

That's true I can't remeber the name of a horse sold out of the Barry Purdon barn who was on the verge of NZ Cup class, had won over $400,000 including a Jewels race. He went to Queensland and raced as a very lowly assessment because the Australian Handicapping system said those races didn't count. They were age group Group 1-3 races. There is money to be made in Australia for NZ owners and thus a new burgeoning market.....Aussie trainers now looking to train NZ horses for their NZ owners. The message is "dont sell take advantage of the Australian conditions yourself" like the All Stars without the extra costs of return shipping and shorter campaigns.