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Thread: NSW grading....becoming a joke

  1. #31
    Member Filly DRUIDRACING will become famous soon enough
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    thank you rex and adam fairley on explanations and information about this system. more of this information please!! then the participants can understand if the system on the whole is achieving its goal,

  2. #32
    Senior Member 4YO p plater will become famous soon enough
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    Rex, welcome aboard.
    The purpose of this tread was to highlight the support or lack of it to Owners and Trainers.
    They are the ones putting their money into the sport. Without them there is no sport.
    Mix with these people on a social basis and you get the feeling they think they are being shafted and could leave the sport in NSW.
    Gone are the days of being able to determine where and when to race their horses in grades they consider to their advantage to get a return on their investment, this is now determined in NSW by the "Professional Handicappers" as you put it.
    The recent Monifieth selection would put a doubt on that title.
    Here's your Pub Talk, 2 races series were advertised, a MO with heat and final plus the next week a M1-M2 heat with final with NO CONDITIONS.
    The handicappers added the conditions after nominations closed to include higher graded horses...comments: How could they do that! They're killing the sport! Would not have nominated!
    Would it surprise you to know that of the finalists in the M1-M2 event, none had recorded prior to the heats a personal best time better than 1.52.1. Their times ranged from 1.52.1 to 1.54.2 and that's lifetime.
    Then we have Monifieth. a M9, a winner of over $148,000 last season which finished weeks prior, his last 7 starts, as you indicate is taken into account for selection by the "Professional Handicappers" include 6 Group3 races and a listed Classic, he won the Golden Mile, he had 3 starts over the 1609 with personal times of 1.51.7 twice and a 1.52.1 with prizemoney of $42,300. The "Professional Handicappers" stuffed up and upset a lot of Owners and Trainers.
    Secondly, all the changes being made are directed to the turnover, this is evident in your response with turnover figures, plus increased field sizes, adding sprint lanes and a new financial cost to withdraw a horse after nomination released. I wonder why that happens.
    Rex, your efforts to create the "Best" track in Australia and the fairest (all runners off the front) has now been prostituted and the reason given, to increase turnover not to help the Owners or Trainers.....as I said before, without Owners and Trainers there is no sport.
    Under the current handicapping system of C2 or better and M2 or better it has become a lottery every week, all in the hands of your "Professional Handicappers".
    Last edited by Messenger; 09-26-2015 at 04:25 PM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member 3YO Race For Fun will become famous soon enough
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    ^ Right on the money Bailey. I thought the job of the handicapper was to handicap the horses that the trainers decide are best suited to a particular race. No one can place a horse when the powers that be move the goal posts after nominations have closed. To my mind the handicapper is making up races that are easy to fill (the wider the classes the easier it is to get larger field sizes). But in my opinion most trainers want to race horses roughly the same class (this is where the lack of horses shows up). In my opinion.

  4. #34
    Senior Member 4YO p plater will become famous soon enough
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    In the interest of fairness and accuracy, it has been made known to me that the M1-M2 series did have conditions attached to it.
    n
    PCM12091502 - M1/M2 HEATS (MS)
    of $21420.
    M1 To M2. PBD/M. 1609 metres. Also eligible M3+ which
    have not won $5000 in their last 4 star ts. Also eligible
    horses that nominated for 03 and received a ballot.
    Horses must nominate for both races to be eligible. Final
    of $30000 to be conducted on the 18/09/15 HRNSW
    Heats & Final conditions

    Fair enough, but does that really allow a seasoned horse like Monifieth (only $4800 in last 4 starts) to be considered for M1-M2.
    Maybe Rex like many others would think a greater number of starts should be taken into consideration, regardless of last 4 only.
    I don't wish to put words into Rex's mouth, I only mention this due to Rex's comment.
    I think its interesting from my look at the results of that meeting, there was no race 03 so the M1-M2's were lucky not to have plenty of FFA horses involved.
    As Toni said, it's easy to fill a field when you widen the class of runner.

  5. #35
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Like many I cannot help but think the words "the horse has been well placed" is now a thing of the past in NSW and one that many owner/trainers are going to have trouble coming to terms with. It just doesn't seem right that the handicapper has all the say when he does not pay the bills. I think the handicapper could be best used to determine barriers if NSW was to adopt a preferential draw system. I know you have 10 across at Menangle which can negate the draw to a certain effect but does it have to be 10 across? To even out a field could a handicapper decide runners X, Y & Z are to start off the second line regardless of field size?
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  6. #36
    Member Yearling bbd will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    Like many I cannot help but think the words "the horse has been well placed" is now a thing of the past in NSW and one that many owner/trainers are going to have trouble coming to terms with. It just doesn't seem right that the handicapper has all the say when he does not pay the bills. I think the handicapper could be best used to determine barriers if NSW was to adopt a preferential draw system. I know you have 10 across at Menangle which can negate the draw to a certain effect but does it have to be 10 across? To even out a field could a handicapper decide runners X, Y & Z are to start off the second line regardless of field size?
    Hi Kev,

    Putting runners on the back row is NOT a handicap at Menangle (and perhaps plenty of other places too). Inside the second row will most times put you behind the leader or at worst 3 back. A lot of drivers would consider that the perfect place. In any case, it stops the lesser performed horses getting down to the pegs so they can have some cover.

  7. #37
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I agree Col that SR1 and SR2 can be fancied barriers but maybe not so much SR3 and SR4 but you are right that I am struggling to come up with alternatives LOL
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  8. #38
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    NSW are not the only state having trouble evening out the grading. Check out Race 4's : C6 or better at Melton on Friday. I think a couple of them would be wishing that they had opted for the C5-6 Last at Shep on Wed which only has 6 runners.

    http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm...romstate=vic#4
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  9. #39
    Senior Member 4YO p plater will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    NSW are not the only state having trouble evening out the grading. Check out Race 4's : C6 or better at Melton on Friday. I think a couple of them would be wishing that they had opted for the C5-6 Last at Shep on Wed which only has 6 runners.

    http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm...romstate=vic#4
    There is the difference between States, Vic nominates the grades C5-C6 at Shep and C6 or better at Melton. Trainer can choose their best option. Full marks for running a 6 horse field.
    NSW would have the base nomination as C3 or better and the Professional Handicappers would make up a full field with changed conditions to suit them. An example was yesterdays Menangle last race a C6-C12 field of 10 selected, run won by a C11

  10. #40
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I suppose it is full marks for running a 6 horse field but with only 6 horses in the C3-4 as well, I do not know if it is good business. No doubt if it was in NSW they would have gone with two C2-3's (as there are 12 in a C2) and made it a C4-6
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