Reply With QuoteDon't get me started on the Doggies Dot. They are a disgrace - the number of animals they go through! Why should everybody adopt a greyhound to solve their problem - they are not the perfect breed for a pet for most
Have to agree with Rick, I think visually the TBs whip is far more visible particularly on TV then ours, though the action of some of our drivers is more ungainly then many jockeys
The issue of sufficiency of penalties and efficiency of policing whip rules, be they what they may, is really the issue at hand, not banning the whip.
I don't see why in the future Australian Harness Racing could not be known for, not banning the whip as Geoff Want intended, but for having the highest penalties and most rigid adherence to the whip rules in the world.
As an aside Mr Want prophesied that if we didn't ban the whip government would ban our sport as the NSW government had banned greyhound racing there. Well very interesting turn of events there, not only is greyhound racing not banned it now receives additional support from government and has announced with the aid of funding from the NSW government they will be staging the richest greyhound race series in the world with total prizemoney in the vicinity of $1.7m and $1M to the winner.
Makes our sport and ID series look truely the "poorest" of the codes and I'm afraid continues to dishearten me for our future.
Don't get me started on the Doggies Dot. They are a disgrace - the number of animals they go through! Why should everybody adopt a greyhound to solve their problem - they are not the perfect breed for a pet for most
Greg Sugars was a Champion harness racing person
I hope the do gooders realize that most cows, sheep, pigs and chickens are bred purely to be slaughtered and put into the food chain. They kill about 99% off them. The racing industries try to save and provide a good quality of life for a huge % of our stock but a small amount will end up in the food chain. I bet the horses and dogs in the racing industries have a much better life than that first group ! Most of the trainers I know look after their animals welfare better than they do their own.
Don't die wondering !
Kev, Doggies aside, we should focus on our own issues, not those of others I believe. In respect to the whip, the people who believe it should be banned are not the people training or driving them..WHY?? I think you need to ask yourself that question and have a serious look at what the answers are going to be. Experience should never be invalidated, its the best teacher in the world bar none. Horses like kids respond better to the carrot than the stick no doubt in a very high percentage of occasions, BUT do you remember the results of banning the cane at schools? Poor old teachers have been battling to get day to day respect ever since from sections of their students ( not all of them and not all the time) there IS a place for the stick/whip/cane/kick up the arse in life, and the sooner the people who think they have all the answers acknowledge they don't the better off everyone will be. There is no single answer to all situations in any walk of life. Nuff said.Originally Posted by Messenger
Point taken Dan. Not a horseman (I wish I had been - compensated by taking daughter to Ponyland every week for 10yrs) but I was a teacher for 20 years and I could never have picked up a ruler/strap to hit a child even if it was permissible in my time (last century). When you think about it - not all the teachers gave corporal punishment in our days either, some obviously could while others couldn't. I was a shocker of a kid and received the cane etc often and I cannot say it worried me but I just cannot imagine doing it myself.
My biggest problem with whips is 'how' some use it.
Definitely nuff said
Greg Sugars was a Champion harness racing person
If our current whip rules were properly enforced with penalties harsh enough to deter repeat offenders, most of the controversy would go away.
Don't die wondering !
An astute follower has pointed out that it would be good to have some research on what the public thought about them (especially 18 - 30 yo's) as we have to know the opinion of the market place on many matters such as this in our endeavor to attract new fans
Possibly nothing too pointed but I was thinking it would be good to get a sample of our intended market to comment on some videos in terms of what they liked about them and what they didn't. The research would be about more than just whips but the variety of short clips would make it possible for the viewers to notice some minimal/zero whip use and some over the top use
Greg Sugars was a Champion harness racing person
My thoughts are 80% may say ban the whips, but how many of them would come along the trots anyway? A lot of the 20% who are ok with keeping whips would be the ones more likely to get involved in the industry.
Sorry Kev but I think what your astute follower is suggesting would be a waste of resources. We already know if asked the vast majority of the general public regardless of age would support a ban on the whip. But they would be doing so from the same position you do, as an observer with a preconceived negativity about all "whip" use, and without knowledge of the alternative positive uses of the whip.
Peer pressure alone ( apart from in the TAB section of a pub or club probably) would likely see those who are undecided or ambivalent side with those in favour of banning the whip.
As for showing videos of minimal and over the top whip use what would be the purpose of that, other then reinforcing a negative message. I'm not a supporter of banning the whip but I am offended more then most in the industry by excessive or over the top or inappropriate whip use.
We don't need a marketing survey Kev, we know what we need, rules that minimise whip use with appropriate penalties and enforcement to ensure they are adhered to.
And outside of raceday an education program ( as previously promised by HRA in the form of a series of video presentations from Dr McLean) for trainers to ensure they understand the appropriate way to use a whip in the education of horses.
Kevin, I think they should be surveying people that bet on racing,dogs and sports but not on harness racing. Try to find the reasons they don't bet on our sport and see if those issues can be addressed .
All of us on here are already fans of harness racing so we are blind to what is keeping new people away . I think that we have a perceived integrity problem. I have never heard anyone mention whips as an issue, the main comment I hear from outsiders is "all the races are fixed aren't they". Most of the trainers and drivers that I speak to genuinely believe that certain people are getting special treatment from authorities. Until this perception goes away we are in trouble.
Don't die wondering !
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