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Thread: Is Ike Frost really the sire of Maori's Idol ?

  1. #11
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I see Andrew is calling for tenders for the next DNA testers contract

    http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=33510

    Harness Racing Australia (HRA) employs a strong commitment and regulatory framework to protect the integrity of breeding activities and horse identification within the harness racing industry.
    An important component of these regulations is the parentage verification of each horse .....


    I think this time next year will be long enough to have waited for the answer to the BIG question this thread asks
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  3. #13
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    If we can afford DNA testing to determine Systematic's parentage I think we are well overdue to answer the Question posed in this thread

    http://www.harness.org.au/media-room...?news_id=37906

    Another year has passed Andrew Kelly
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  4. #14
    Super Moderator Stallion Richard prior will become famous soon enough Richard prior's Avatar
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    Totally agree Kev

  5. #15
    Senior Member 2YO Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
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    Oh, dear. This old (very) question has been raised once again and, once again, everybody will have differing opinions. I have a terrific Maori's Idol (true) tale to tell everybody on this forum but I am yet to hit the "post" button. And I won't until I am ready.

    Yes, both the fertility-challenged Ike Frost and the ageing trotting stallion Bank Note stood for Des Dumbrell at Oaklands Junction in 1971 when Ric Healy sent his star dual-gaited mare Maori Miss to Ike Frost. The argument for the past 4 decades has been around Ike Frost, who had only thrown one other trotter among his 109 winners, siring an out and out superstar in Maori's Idol. Rumours persist that 16 year-old Ike Frost, a Noel Simpson import, was shooting blanks at the time and the 17 year-old Bank Note was being under patronized - I'm sure you'll get my drift. Two decades after I last put forward my theory as to how Ike Frost, not Bank Note, sired a champion I reckon I have even more ammunition to prove it was the dam, not the sire, that was the dominant parent.

    As amazing a broodmare and matriarch Maori Miss has been, the old "Bank Note" theory does her a great disservice. I remember having a long discussion with a well known breeding expert back in the 1990's about the topic. He rattled of the stats and facts, my arguement was that Maori Miss could throw a champion by the milko's horse.

    Her first four foals were all good horses by stallions who sired top horses at both gaits. Her first foal, Maori's Gift (Ardri) won at both gaits and I remember him mainly as a pretty smart type winning at the Melbourne Showgrounds. Then came the extra smart trotter Maori's Pride (Dick Adios) who was sold to the US as a youngster; Victorian Trotters Derby and Australasian Trotting Championship winner Maori Monarch (by Meadow Vance) and back to Dick Adios for top open class pacer Maori's Wonder. The following year, Maori's Idol (Ike Frost) hit the ground.

    The sires of those first 5 (male) foals were all pacing bred. All of Maori Miss' foals were by pacers.

    At the time of my last discussion on this topic, I referred my breeding expert friend to keep an eye on a juvenile trotting grandson of Maori Miss named Noopy Kiosk. I told him "Noopy" was by another pacing bred stallion, Paulsboro. Paulsboro ultimately left fewer than 100 winners with the smart Pauls Future the next best of his 4 trotting winners.

    Maori Miss' sixth foal was her first filly, the very smart but unreliable trotter Maori Mara. Through her trotting-bred sired daughter and grand-daughter Maori Mara is the third dam of another outstanding trotter in Blitzthemcalder - by moderately performed pacing sire Metropolitan! "Blitz" is the richest of his progeny downunder and one of three trotting winners among the 118 listed on the HRA website.

    So, Sturla, the question "is Ike Frost really the sire of Maori's Idol" could be substituted with "is Paulsboro / Metropolitan really the sire of Noopy Kiosk / Blitzthemcalder"? In all three, my answer is yes. No doubt I'll get howled down by others' opinions but I am more certain of my answer 40 years after the question was first asked.

    Without doing a complete dossier on Maori Miss, I suggest all standardbred fans do their own research to develop and appreciation of her incredible contribution to to the breed. As a footnote, Bank Note sired many really top trotters but I remember them more as grinding stayers. If sired by him, Maori's Idol must have been a one-off because of his freakish speed. Maybe he inherited that from mum. Or maybe, Ike Frost?

  6. #16
    Senior Member 2YO Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
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    My apologies, all. I just realized more than 2 years has passed since the 40 year-old question was asked again!

  7. #17
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Yes Trev, I was just sending Andrew Kelly a reminder that it was 2 years ago that he told me, they would revisit this question at a later time (when descendant genotyping and costs have improved)
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  8. #18
    Senior Member 2YO Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
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    No prob Kev. However, I doubt whether the great mystery will ever be solved. For my part, I am proud that I was able to stump-up a few grand to buy one of Maori's Idol's best daughters as a broodmare. And she was a PACER. A Tasmanian-bred one to boot with a Tasmanian pedigree dating back to just after the turn of the 20th century.

    No amount of DNA testing will ever explain the matter, which is the great romance of breeding standardbreds.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Stallion Danno is a jewel in the rough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showgrounds View Post
    No prob Kev. However, I doubt whether the great mystery will ever be solved. For my part, I am proud that I was able to stump-up a few grand to buy one of Maori's Idol's best daughters as a broodmare. And she was a PACER. A Tasmanian-bred one to boot with a Tasmanian pedigree dating back to just after the turn of the 20th century.

    No amount of DNA testing will ever explain the matter, which is the great romance of breeding standardbreds.
    No amount of breeding investigations/theories/studies will ever resolve the mysteries Trevor, but you certainly hit the nail on the head with the contribution of that great matriarch, there are many sires with many stock left that would not be able to boast the quality stock that she has left.

    cheers,

    Dan.

    PS if Maori's Idol is not by Bank Note I will eat my hat and those of everyone who present it to me, no person with normal vision and an eye for a horse would differ.

  10. #20
    Senior Member 2YO Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    No amount of breeding investigations/theories/studies will ever resolve the mysteries Trevor, but you certainly hit the nail on the head with the contribution of that great matriarch, there are many sires with many stock left that would not be able to boast the quality stock that she has left.

    cheers,

    Dan.

    PS if Maori's Idol is not by Bank Note I will eat my hat and those of everyone who present it to me, no person with normal vision and an eye for a horse would differ.
    Sauce with the hat, sir?

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