Reply With QuoteVery good and valid points Dan. Personally prefer the mile and a half too. You're right, the longer distances give drivers more options on getting into a winning position at some point.
What is your favourite distance for trotting races? (suggested by jimbeau)
1600m (9%)
2100m (38%)
2600m (46%)
3200m (7%)
Total Votes: 149
Noticed the latest poll on Harness.org.au......it appears the overwhelming majority of respondents prefer middle distance ( 2100 metres) to middle staying distance races ( 2600 metres) very few prefer the 1609 metres, whilst the joke distance of 1k thankfully didn't even get a mention.
To me, the interesting thing thats coming from this poll is that very few people ( 9%) reckon 1609 metres is the go!! I feel vindicated to a certain extent, as I've not ever believed that copying the progressively diminishing " success" of our North American cousins has been what's appropriate for our own market.
I'd love to hear other's opinions! IMO we have been bombarded, and to a certain extent "brainwashed" with too much mile racing for too long! From a trainer/driver's perspective the mile racing reduces your options for putting your horse into the race at some stage without butchering him. And from a punters viewpoint? well look at the success in the good old USA!
To be fair, the downward spiral can not be blamed on mile racing alone, all mobile starts, conditioned racing that is designed to even up fields but actually causes barrier draws to influence people to bet on "numbers" and "systems" rather than assessing the qualities of the the individuals, and in general, a system that is trying to appeal to the desire of punters for a consistent or "predictable" product, when in fact that alone kills the punters interest!!! the punters don't want $1.30 favorites winning! they know the odds are against them with factors like luck in running etc. The punters want a fair go thats all, they don't want to see horses that can't win a race at Wagga or Newcastle lining up, sitting in the death, and blitzing their rivals in the straight at Melton or Menangle and the only explanation is the horse was driven "American Style" or that trainer swims his horses,even though the horse has been in his/her yard for about 4 days!!!!
As has been said on this forum many times... the punters want to see a reasonably consistent product and the participants would like a reasonably level playing field.
Very good and valid points Dan. Personally prefer the mile and a half too. You're right, the longer distances give drivers more options on getting into a winning position at some point.
Warning: Horses are expensive, addictive, and may impair the ability to use common sense.
A story going around that Wagga will be running some 1300m races in September, hope it is only a rumor!
I took it the poll was for trotters only.
I voted 2600m because trotters lack the high speed and 2600m races seem to be more competitive.
As for pacing its a whole different ball game. 2565m races at Wagga end up like a dogs breakfast down the straight, because country front horses just aren't fit enough. But then mile races the leader gets such an advantage on 800m tracks (as you said Danno some horses/drivers are just damned from the start - 100% agree with you here). 2100 is probably the right distance.
But then in grand circuit racing mile racing is cutthroat and they go fast enough and with enough pressure on it brings the whole field into races. Same story with 2600m, its a great staying test at that level. 2100 seems neither here not there at that level.
Then we have different tracks. I absolutely love the Menangle Mile. If driven right every horse has a chance. But then line the same field up over the middle distance and I'd rather see them race at Melton 2240m.
I wouldn't have a definitive answer of favourite distance for pacers.
Lol I don't know how that question evoked such a detailed response from you Danno but I shall reply!
From a punters viewpoint it would be much easier if every race at every track was over the one distance. Whether that be 1600m or 3200m it would be much, much easier for punters. If this were to happen the breed, not punters or anyone else, would dictate that the mile would be the selected option - with an almighty amount of our mares bred to American sires that never raced a metre over 1609m. That said, for the love of the game I wouldn't want to see that happen. As it is now though I hardly see a problem with the amount of mile racing - it isn't that prevalent is it? Middle distance still rules the roost everywhere except one track.
The systems betting approach. From my experiences it is much more prevalent, and more importantly much more proportionately prevalent, in gallops and dogs. The gallops barriers are random 100% of the time (while I don't know about dogs). I daresay most harness systems are based around numbers drawn to lead. This could happen with both PBD and RBD, somebody is always going to be drawn to lead. You say you don't like $1.30 faves but tell me, what happens when the best horse in the races draws barrier two under RBD?
You even have a go at mobile starts. Tell me how many punters turn away as soon as they see the race is a stand start? I don't know the answer because I'll admit I just can't count that damn high.
In the middle of your text you say "a system that is trying to appeal to the desire of punters for a consistent or "predictable" product, when in fact that alone kills the punters interest" Then you finish your post by saying "the punters want to see a reasonable consistent product".
For starters I don't think harness racing is predictable. I don't think conditioned racing is predictable. It brings in enough predictibility in the sense that formlines can be matched rather than all over the place - but who wouldn't want that? It also brings in predictibility that trainers can nominate with confidence - but who wouldnt want that? But selecting a winner from raceday fields certaintly isn't predictable. Horses racing their own class - or if they are up or down in class we have PBD races. Its a level playing field in that respect and is the best bet for steering away from odds on pops.
Yeah thats right. Heats of the Menangle series or some crap....They will start from the back straight. Head on into the first turn will be interesting.Originally Posted by clumsy
I took it to mean the Trotters/Square Gaiters races.
So did I.
The question was for trotting races not pacing races. I voted for 2100m because it gives them more time to recover from a gallop.
This poll is meaningless because I prefer mile racing for pacers but a mile is 1609m not 1600m as the poll question says. No tracks race over 1600m and anything less than 1609m is crazy. So just because 1600m scored a low result means nothing !
Don't die wondering !
DG...Brendan, if you think harness racing is not predictable, then you are entitled to your opinion.. my personal belief is that its MUCH more predictable now than it has ever been and I've been around this game for a long time. I also believe that the predictability is one of our bigger problems!!
Last edited by Danno; 08-18-2012 at 12:18 AM.
i like the short 1600m short and sweet hehe
Posting Permissions
