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Thread: NZ Broodmare Sale

  1. #11
    Super Moderator Stallion Richard prior will become famous soon enough Richard prior's Avatar
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    I think that's a pretty fair appraisal Kev.

  2. #12
    Junior Member Yearling figgy1 will become famous soon enough
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    Thanks guys, I appreciate your comments.

  3. #13
    Senior Member 2YO Viv Strangman will become famous soon enough
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    Fiona,
    I can't agree with most of the comments above.
    Anything that has Paulreta close up in its pedigree is worth serious consideration.
    Paul Command and Hurricane Paul were two outstanding horses and are close up in her pedigree.
    The fact that your filly is a 3/4 sister to The Orange Agent who looked so smart in the two year races at Auckland this year means your filly has a lot going for it.
    It all comes down when buying horses to the individual.
    But you can't fault the breeding of your filly that's for sure.

  4. #14
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viv Strangman View Post
    Fiona,
    I can't agree with most of the comments above.
    Anything that has Paulreta close up in its pedigree is worth serious consideration.
    Paul Command and Hurricane Paul were two outstanding horses and are close up in her pedigree.
    The fact that your filly is a 3/4 sister to The Orange Agent who looked so smart in the two year races at Auckland this year means your filly has a lot going for it.
    It all comes down when buying horses to the individual.
    But you can't fault the breeding of your filly that's for sure.
    We all know that your thoughts as a pro should hold a lot more weight than mine as an enthusiast but lets think of our opinions as being from the perspective of a buyer (me) and a seller (you)

    You cannot agree with most of the comments - I think I made five comments
    1 The dam being a half sister to Cincinnati Kid is a plus
    2 The dam is yet to produce a winner
    3 Family N67 does not have many star performers
    4 The jury is still out on American Ideal
    5 I liked the line breeding in her filly's pedigree

    Which of these comments do you not agree with?

    As you said it very much comes down to the individual. I think I am far more conservative with my 'outstandings' than you.

    Maybe I am too particular but after bringing up the descendants of Paulreta (1969) and comparing them to the descendants of Ladyeen (1971) the A1 family in which I had a nice broodmare and winning full sister to one of the black type - well I would be no more enthusiastic about her well bred progeny.

    I am very glad Fiona got more than my perspective. Overall I would summarize it like so - I would be happy to have bred Miss Patriot for myself but I would not be too confident of a big return if I had bred her to sell

    The Orange Agent is definitely a plus that I did not know about and probably something that a seller would have to bring to the attention of most Aussies.
    Last edited by Messenger; 08-25-2014 at 05:46 PM. Reason: typo
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  5. #15
    Junior Member Yearling figgy1 will become famous soon enough
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    It is great to get some constructive feedback so thank you. We are only small breeders and our biggest wish is that any horse we sell gets every opportunity. I would love to keep this filly but we do have a half sister by Live or Die to carry on with to race and maybe future breed. Honey Ryders first foal died at 6 months old so not sure what happened there as we didnt own the mare then, her second is a McArdle 4 year old which again we didnt breed but hasnt shown up. We did buy her in foal to Elsu which is the third foal, a colt which was a very nice type and we sold for a modest but fair price at the yearling sales, I think he is not far away from making an appearance at the workouts. We then have the Live or Die and then Miss Patriot. Our expectations are not huge on a return for her as long as she gets a chance to prove herself...... as has been proven some of the best horses were the cheapest buys and there are some $200,000 riding hacks out there. Hey we will just see what pans out on the 11th Sept......

  6. #16
    Senior Member 2YO Viv Strangman will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    We all know that your thoughts as a pro should hold a lot more weight than mine as an enthusiast but lets think of our opinions as being from the perspective of a buyer (me) and a seller (you)

    You cannot agree with most of the comments - I think I made five comments
    1 The dam being a half sister to Cincinnati Kid is a plus
    2 The dam is yet to produce a winner
    3 Family N67 does not have many star performers
    4 The jury is still out on American Ideal
    5 I liked the line breeding in her filly's pedigree

    Which of these comments do you not agree with?

    As you said it very much comes down to the individual. I think I am far more conservative with my 'outstandings' than you.

    Maybe I am too particular but after bringing up the descendants of Paulreta (1969) and comparing them to the descendants of Ladyeen (1971) the A1 family in which I had a nice broodmare and winning full sister to one of the black type - well I would be no more enthusiastic about her well bred progeny.

    I am very glad Fiona got more than my perspective. Overall I would summarize it like so - I would be happy to have bred Miss Patriot for myself but I would not be too confident of a big return if I had bred her to sell

    The Orange Agent is definitely a plus that I did not know about and probably something that a seller would have to bring to the attention of most Aussies.
    Really Kev ,if you are going to comment on Nz families, you need to talk to someone who has some knowledge because you really are wide of the mark here.
    I have been in the game a long time and have access to every book/reference book you could name but I still wouldn't feel qualified to speak on Australian maternal families with any degree of confidence. All the books/internet give you is an overview of families ,not an insight.
    Experience gives you that
    At the same time I have read so many comments on Nz families that are wide of the mark from the other side of the Tasman i have to wonder why you bother.
    The maternal family in question here is known to Kiwis as Tot Huon (116B)
    It has been the premium dual gaited family on this side of the Tasman.
    A lot of our best horses come from from dual gaited families (Christian Cullen, Elsu) and for a family that you claim has few stars I would love to know how you would rate the following horses
    Paula--- Paul Gentry---Game Paul---Paula Scott---Hurricane Paul---Paul Command and Paul's Byrd to name just a few for a start.
    The last thing that ever concerns me when assessing an individual is what foal number they are.
    You get hung up on foal number and you will miss some lovely individuals.
    Kate Perry is just the last in a long line of ignoring what her siblings have done and running like her breeding suggests she should.
    The fifth foal from her dam when purchased and nothing had raced but a quality individual in the flesh that impressed Cran Dalgety enough to buy her.
    As for American Ideal, he has done a lovely job on this side of the Tasman which is reflected in the huge books he has served here in the last four years.
    If you want to be taken seriously when talking about New Zealand, then you need to get out of your reference books and talk to some people on the ground.
    Here's a wee quiz for you.
    What is the best bred mare in the up coming sale.
    Not the best producer, just the best bred mare in the sale.
    I am genuinely interested in your opinion so I would appreciate a reply.
    Last edited by Viv Strangman; 08-26-2014 at 12:10 AM.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Greg Hando will become famous soon enough
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    Who will judge the best bred mare Viv as it is only an individual's opinion and the opinion's all vary ?
    Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on

  8. #18
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viv Strangman View Post
    Really Kev ,if you are going to comment on Nz families, you need to talk to someone who has some knowledge because you really are wide of the mark here.
    I have been in the game a long time and have access to every book/reference book you could name but I still wouldn't feel qualified to speak on Australian maternal families with any degree of confidence. All the books/internet give you is an overview of families ,not an insight.
    Experience gives you that
    At the same time I have read so many comments on Nz families that are wide of the mark from the other side of the Tasman i have to wonder why you bother.
    The maternal family in question here is known to Kiwis as Tot Huon (116B)
    It has been the premium dual gaited family on this side of the Tasman.
    A lot of our best horses come from from dual gaited families (Christian Cullen, Elsu) and for a family that you claim has few stars I would love to know how you would rate the following horses
    Paula--- Paul Gentry---Game Paul---Paula Scott---Hurricane Paul---Paul Command and Paul's Byrd to name just a few for a start.
    The last thing that ever concerns me when assessing an individual is what foal number they are.
    You get hung up on foal number and you will miss some lovely individuals.
    Kate Perry is just the last in a long line of ignoring what her siblings have done and running like her breeding suggests she should.
    The fifth foal from her dam when purchased and nothing had raced but a quality individual in the flesh that impressed Cran Dalgety enough to buy her.
    As for American Ideal, he has done a lovely job on this side of the Tasman which is reflected in the huge books he has served here in the last four years.
    If you want to be taken seriously when talking about New Zealand, then you need to get out of your reference books and talk to some people on the ground.
    Here's a wee quiz for you.
    What is the best bred mare in the up coming sale.
    Not the best producer, just the best bred mare in the sale.
    I am genuinely interested in your opinion so I would appreciate a reply.
    'Really' Viv
    I bowed to your experience but fear you are venturing into a bit of 'chest puffing'
    I never claimed to speak with a lot of confidence - read the finish of my post.
    I don't know whether I want to be taken too seriously
    I do however enjoy chatting on a forum with like minded people - if you see it as a place for chest puffing have yourself a good time
    As far as answers go - I was waiting for the answer to how many of my 5 comments you disagree with but now I am not really interested
    I will never argue about the wisdom of the man on the ground but with all those books you have got I hope you read them too as some of the men on the ground could write too
    And here is a 'wee' thought for you - let's not kid ourselves that results, averages etc etc are all rubbish. Just because some people distort them does not mean they are not relevant
    An old favourite book of mine (superseeded by ClassicFamilies nowadays) was Ian Daff's Black Book
    He allocated Tot Huon number 145 as he did not see it as quite a leading family and I reckon that is still the case, only IMO of course.
    Last edited by Messenger; 08-26-2014 at 02:47 AM.
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  9. #19
    Senior Member 4YO eliteblood has a spectacular aura about eliteblood's Avatar
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    Is there no catalogue for this sale ?

  10. #20
    Senior Member 2YO Viv Strangman will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliteblood View Post
    Is there no catalogue for this sale ?
    Trev,
    Go to the Standardbred Breeders New Zealand site and the catalogue is online.
    It clicks through to HRNZ site for pedigree.
    Great concept. They are charging $125 entry fee and no commission. No horses at the site on the day to keep travel costs down so you need to inspect pre sale.
    Timing is excellent with breeding season just around the corner.

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