Harness whip rules

[Messenger]

If you are going to go off on a red herring about dogs being kept against their will in backyards would you also be proposing that all horses are released to roam the High Country

You're not happy with the new regulations and are happy that some horses need to be whipped to perform. In the past some schoolchildren and prisoners performed better with the threat of the whip - do you think we should bring it back for them?

As I have said I am happy with light flicks - that is what HRA are enforcing
I have also always said that I am happy for drivers to carry a whip for in case of emergency - add jockeys to that

I figure Norway would be like Vic or NZ - similar population and of most interest to the locals just like Vic or NZ. They have the advantage of being closer to many other nations and like the rest of Europe have the advantage of being the major racing code - not gallops

[aussiebreno]

If you are going to go off on a red herring about dogs being kept against their will in backyards would you also be proposing that all horses are released to roam the High Country

You're not happy with the new regulations and are happy that some horses need to be whipped to perform. In the past some schoolchildren and prisoners performed better with the threat of the whip - do you think we should bring it back for them?

As I have said I am happy with light flicks - that is what HRA are enforcing
I have also always said that I am happy for drivers to carry a whip for in case of emergency - add jockeys to that

I figure Norway would be like Vic or NZ - similar population and of most interest to the locals just like Vic or NZ. They have the advantage of being closer to many other nations and like the rest of Europe have the advantage of being the major racing code - not gallops

No Kev I don't endorse letting all the pacers/thoroughbreds out into the high country as I am comfortable and consistent with the moral dilemma of controlling of an animal. Fine to use light padded instrument lightly and fine to enclose them in a yard. Brick by brick those who are uncomfortable with the moral dilemma will tear it down until there is no sport left.

I'm talking about horses not humans. I gather prisoners were hit with force with the whip rather than tickled with a light padded instrument anyway.

Golden rule in racing is the jock/driver must be seen to be trying. Can see a few rants at the TAB or on Twitter about the lack of vigor. It brings down the intensity of a close finish and leaves the sport with a blander product for those that do actually enjoy the sport. Alienating your own market to appease those who will never enjoy the sport.

[Messenger]

I don't put whacking animals to go faster in the 'controlling of an animal' category. We are both happy with a light instrument lightly so I am not sure what we disagree on?

Is it the number of times or the continuous use? Both can be a bad look and cancel out all the benefits we gain with the public by advocating light instrument lightly.

You think using the whip in the approved manner (something Gavin Lang would have had no problem with as that was his style) will alienate punters?
If you expect punters to know driver's weights, I reckon knowing how a driver is allowed to use the whip will be a piece of cake

One solution to punters complaining about a lack of vigour which could be happening now (as some are obeying the new directive and others not) is if those that are racking up the warnings cannot learn (and we decide we cannot do without them) is to have no whip (except carried for an emergency) Then punters only interested in the $ cannot expect to see any difference in vigour between riders/drivers. However, I don't think the drivers are so stupid as to not learn. Look how Kerryn Manning decided after her warning and first fine to carry the whip in her left. Like I said when comparing it to Sheedy's directive to his footballers to hold onto the opposition player who gets a mark or a free - once they brought in the 50m penalty it stopped overnight

[aussiebreno]

I don't put whacking animals to go faster in the 'controlling of an animal' category. We are both happy with a light instrument lightly so I am not sure what we disagree on?

Is it the number of times or the continuous use? Both can be a bad look and cancel out all the benefits we gain with the public by advocating light instrument lightly.

You think using the whip in the approved manner (something Gavin Lang would have had no problem with as that was his style) will alienate punters?
If you expect punters to know driver's weights, I reckon knowing how a driver is allowed to use the whip will be a piece of cake

One solution to punters complaining about a lack of vigour which could be happening now (as some are obeying the new directive and others not) is if those that are racking up the warnings cannot learn (and we decide we cannot do without them) is to have no whip (except carried for an emergency) Then punters only interested in the $ cannot expect to see any difference in vigour between riders/drivers. However, I don't think the drivers are so stupid as to not learn. Look how Kerryn Manning decided after her warning and first fine to carry the whip in her left. Like I said when comparing it to Sheedy's directive to his footballers to hold onto the opposition player who gets a mark or a free - once they brought in the 50m penalty it stopped overnight

The banning of it which was in the quote from the Administrator that I took issue with.

I don't expect punters to know drivers weights. I expect people to start picking up that Kima and Kate Gath, Puppet, Sugars, McCarthy drive winners and that other drivers do not. Form guide saying Kima weighs xxKG and Puppet weights xxKG doesn't add anything to the fact Kima and Piuppet have driven winner after winner in the past. Similarly formguide saying J Bloggs weights 120kg doesn't add anything to the fact J Bloggs struggles to boot home a winner in the past. Part of any newbies learning a new hobbby/sport would be finding this out for themselves or a friend and anyone else already has opinions on drivers.

There is more action and enthrallment when the whips are cracking and people can be seen to be giving their all compared to people being hamstrung and seemingly not trying very hard. Just because the whole field will be sitting quite as church mouses doesn't make up for it.

[Messenger]

Providing an abundance of info like Drivers wins and maybe weights (although I see your point about fluctuations) might be called being User Friendly and even be an arm of marketing

If people can get close enough to the track the hooves and drivers calling is enough. It only happens in closish (my variation on close) finishes anyway. I never missed the the whip cracking when Dillon won 3 metro races without one.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree

[Messenger]

A long whip discussion with John Caldow after R2 at Melton today which he raised as an example of why drivers need whips - as Andover Sun was very wayward early in the race. This is the safety aspect which is why drivers need to carry whips (even if they were ever banned from using them in a tight finish)
As far as the finish goes if the wording of the new whip rule is serious, although it didn't look much, John Caldow was not flicking Andover Son when he won R2 at Melton today. I don't know whether the replay will show it but the close up on Trots Vison did

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...20#MXC11092008

[Messenger]

Kerryn had better go back to carrying the whip in her left going on R6 at Terang, not that her fellow place-getters were only 'flicking' their horses
If the stewards do their job she will now be up to the bigger fine (and next time a suspension)

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...20#TEC12092002

[Messenger]

Vic have released another demonstration video

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room...?news_id=45094

[gutwagon]

I think this new whip rule and its enforcement will be a lot like the rules in competition walking ! Some people will be penalized for running while others doing the exact same thing will never get pinged !

[Messenger]

I don't necessarily disagree with that Rick but I can see a difference already