Contolled use of Therapeutic Drugs

[Danno]

Good idea but it seems to me that Kentucky was behind the times, even there.
That approach was already in place in numerous other places Dan, including here in Oz.
It's sometimes referred to as 'out of competition' testing & there is to my knowledge nothing stopping Stewards ordering any test on any horse and at any time, for anything.
Making any resultant charges stick...in terms of establishing intent is concerned however, that's another matter altogether.
If for example Stewards tested out of competition horses & they found micera or aranesp or whatever, drugs that obviously have no business being in a horse, then I'm sure they'd be able to jam them six ways from Sunday.
If an out of competition horse came up with a Bute or Opiate positive then they'd be on very shakey ground on the basis of it not having been presented to race.
They wouldn't put themselves in that position however, they are smarter than that.

I thought the key to the article Jamie, was that in fact, it was legislation not just the rules of the relevant racing authority.
That's how the charges "stick"

The article did not also mention which drugs they were legislating against.

Therefore, what's to say, in our own backyard, the legislation could be designed in a way that took into account that some therapeutic drugs did not come within the scope of the law?

The main things that I took from the action in Kentucky, is that it's the law of the land, can be actioned at any time, could be VERY transparent and the consequences of cheating can be life changing for anyone involved.

I'm not saying this is the be all and end all, just that there are some aspects that are worth considering if you want a system that eveyone understands and knows what is right within the law and what is not.

[ringman]

[VVV] ?????????? I fear that I am wasting my time here Leigh.
Did you not read/comprehend anything whatsoever in my previous post to this thread?
This is not a matter of honesty or diligence.
We have tests on hand that are so sensitive that they pick up non active trace amounts of various substances and/or their metabolites....and trainers duly get slammed for same despite the fact that the levels are such that the horse is receiving absolutely no physical benefit from the substance whatsoever.
If you or anyone else can mount a convincing case for that situation being anywhere near fair then please, fire away.

Do you have a science degree? because you appear to want everyone on here to think you know about lab procedures. so what is the procedure in a lab when a specimen arrives and what process will it go through to obtain a result .

If that is too hard..... then what are the first 2 things that happen to the speci when it arrives at the lab

now if thats too hard then you are full of crap and have never been in a lab in your life

over to you Einstein

[peteboss4]

I thought the key to the article Jamie, was that in fact, it was legislation not just the rules of the relevant racing authority.
That's how the charges "stick"

The article did not also mention which drugs they were legislating against.

Therefore, what's to say, in our own backyard, the legislation could be designed in a way that took into account that some therapeutic drugs did not come within the scope of the law?

The main things that I took from the action in Kentucky, is that it's the law of the land, can be actioned at any time, could be VERY transparent and the consequences of cheating can be life changing for anyone involved.

I'm not saying this is the be all and end all, just that there are some aspects that are worth considering if you want a system that eveyone understands and knows what is right within the law and what is not.

Extreamly well written Dan

[triplev123]

I thought the key to the article Jamie, was that in fact, it was legislation not just the rules of the relevant racing authority.
That's how the charges "stick"

The article did not also mention which drugs they were legislating against.

Therefore, what's to say, in our own backyard, the legislation could be designed in a way that took into account that some therapeutic drugs did not come within the scope of the law?

The main things that I took from the action in Kentucky, is that it's the law of the land, can be actioned at any time, could be VERY transparent and the consequences of cheating can be life changing for anyone involved.

I'm not saying this is the be all and end all, just that there are some aspects that are worth considering if you want a system that eveyone understands and knows what is right within the law and what is not.

[VVV] G'day Dan.
Legislation is all well and good and it would be wonderful if serious drugs in racing transgressions were, as a matter of course, dealt with not only by Industry Regulatory but also by Law, however find us a parliamentary side, on the Left or Right, that has the requisite Cajones to see it through.
I understand something like that is in place in France. Dope a horse up there and you run a serious risk of doing jail time. They're perhaps a bit too far the other way but it's a start.

[barney]

Im not sure if found guilty of doping a horse is that far short of fraud.Fraud is a jailable offence, it would sure get rid of cheaters.The much more realistic way of doing it would be to ensure if found guilty and appeals exhausted they are banned for minium 5 years first offence then life if re offends.

[Danno]

So Dan, ultimately we have arrived at EXACTLY THE SAME POSITION? Fair dinkum.
Onwards & upwards however. I'll try and upload the document I mentioned yesterday.
It's pretty big, maybe it'll go up, maybe not. I'll let you know.
If it does, have a look. It's right on the button.

Heard you were feeling a little relaxed.....ha ha.
Did you hear anything back from Jules about this doc?

[triplev123]

Yeh I did Dan, he very kindly gave me a link to post it to...just that I haven't done it yet (slack arse). I'll take a shot and see if it goes through.

[triplev123]

http://media.live.harnesslink.com/files/f1325532682.docx

Give this a whirl. Fingers crossed it works. 99 pages total.
It's interesting reading, at least I think it is. State to State, the US as compared to CAN etc. when you compare the figures, most of the time you find most of the jurisdictions are around the same number but sometimes there are huge differences.
I can't see why we have been thus far unable to publish something similar here in Oz. There's no need to try and re-invent the wheel. We could surely use this list or something similar as a template at least. Interested in your thoughts.

Rgds

Jaimie

[Danno]

http://media.live.harnesslink.com/files/f1325532682.docx

Give this a whirl. Fingers crossed it works. 99 pages total.
It's interesting reading, at least I think it is. State to State, the US as compared to CAN etc. when you compare the figures, most of the time you find most of the jurisdictions are around the same number but sometimes there are huge differences.
I can't see why we have been thus far unable to publish something similar here in Oz. There's no need to try and re-invent the wheel. We could surely use this list or something similar as a template at least. Interested in your thoughts.

Rgds

Jaimie

Thanks Jamie,
in between having dinner with the tribe, separating teenagers from trying to intellectualy maim one another with verbal tripe and batoning down the hatches for the three horses in my backyard for a storm about to hit,..... a ten minute over view tells that this doc displays widely varying withdrawal times, dosages and dosing methods of not only theraputic drugs (e.g. hard call to define testosterone as theraputic) but also performance enhancing, but not residual permissable levels at point of competion, so given this I think one would need a little more education before I would form any firm opinions on any of it at all.

If you want to pick on a particular therapeutic and start from there, that might work?

Personally I am a great believer that residual levels in the horse's system are a more accurate indicator on potential performance enhancement, than withdrawal times Vs dosage and dosing method. obviously this will vary from individual to individual, that is of course why a safety factor would need to be built into recommended treatment rates. ( although personaly I don't think we need to focuss on that aspect, the drug companies are quite adept on their own in this regard.)

[triplev123]

You're welcome Dan. I agree re: picking some sort of a starting point. My old mate Phenylbutazone is, as I said before, a Poster Child for this.