IDEAS on how we can improve Harness Racing

[Halwes]

It is unfortunate that Harness Racing has it would seem cheats.
When purses are lowish, and the sport isn't what is was years ago, temptation to 'earn' extra money is present. Mind you as my nana would say there is ( was then) lots of skulduggery going on at the Trots. Drivers whose turn it is not to win, can move to the rails and become trapped there without too much scrutiny. This hasn't changed a lot today. So bookmaker records can be reviewed, or tab records. But there are hidden bookies and all that takes resources to review all this, resources probably not sufficient to do much,
and even if there is a possible issue, proof can be very difficult, and resources to pursue this are thin. So authorities probably look at things like dumb things done by dumb people. The Cobalt issue in racing industry took a long time to delve into. As I watch the Trots on video, unlike the past, they are quite good quality so placing stewards around the track has probably almost disappeared.

I'm wondering whether mobile starts facilitate the cheating, you know 'it's not my turn tonight.. I'm second favourite and getting to the rails and getting trapped in, is not hard to do. In other words, money is made by backing other horses. I'm actually not a conspiracy theorist, I think it would be a rare thing, but the temptation is there. I guess if there is instead, doping going on, and this is becoming more common, that should be the focus. it's scientific , so if you are caught, you're done, proof isn't too hard, you'd think. So if that is pretty tight, you have to look at other issues, like handicapping. To make it more equal, that is to facilitate a greater opportunity for lesser horses to win races, therefore more money, reintro of standing start handicapping, is not only a great look, it will mean that lesser horses will win more races. Well,that's my intuition, and I'm not 'eating' harness racing
like so many of you who have outstanding experience and knowledge of the sport. That doesn't mean you don't have mobiles, you reduce them a little initially, then reduce them more. You also have to give trainers good lead time to do this as it will take time for trainers to retrain their horses. Standing starts can also facilitate cheating but you tighten things up here and there to help. Much more importantly, big races should be handicaps so we can see how good a horse is to come from 10, 20, 30, 40. I hark back to my beloved Halwes who was so good, he'd win from anywhere, but was arresting to see horses winning in these handicaps, but sometimes no matter how good they were, they dont win...all this makes me want to go to the Trots particularly to watch handicapped horses in big races. At present, it's um ' same, same, same to go to the Trots.
I recognise that standing starts need management by having stewards there to supervise all that. But I'd be first to put my hand up to be trained ( whs is always an issue but today people are more aware, you just choose wisely. I'd go into a roster, I'd also be happy to a manager of that ..All this means..' inclusion, something very much missing in many walks of life today. You also get more people at the Trots. However, you probably are aware I am very cynical about CEOs . They don't care, they say they listen, but I doubt any of them would ever consider what I have written here. Such a shame, as listening to others is so important. Responding though, it the real test for CEOs.. they don't

[Messenger]

Stewards are still placed around the track Terry
All the racing codes are about betting nowadays and that is the reason the standing start for pacers disappeared - people were upset if they did not get a run for their money

With all today's technology I think we could have MOBILE HANDICAPS - maybe a little slower than at present but still faster than walk up starts

Maybe keep the mobile barrier vehicle for the front line
then you have those off the second line as the first level of handicap

Then you can have a couple of other handicap distances at whatever handicap you wish 20m, 30m, 50m, ....
These races would start in the home straight where we have a sprint lane
These handicapped distances of say 20m and 40m would be paced/lined up by a noiseless electric scooter on the inside (who can then pull off easily into the spr lane)
The scooter riders (possibly with a passenger so that one is concentrating on driving and the other on the horses) would be in communication with the front row starter/mobile vehicle and as is the case now the starter can issue instructions to numbers to move up or pull back. The harness drivers know that they cannot be ahead of their pacing scooter
There would be technology that tells the scooter driver that he is the right distance from the front line (a set speed for the vehicles would of course help them get their distances right)

What do you think?

It would be interesting to see if front row drivers would learn to make use of their advantage. In pro Athletics and Cycling you will never see the frontmarkers make it easy for the backmarkers to eat up their handicap

[Halwes]

Thanks Kevin. I am still a standing start fan. It's great to see them get away from simply the standing position. I am memorised and very bored by watching mobile after mobile after mobile. I am talking from the viewpoint of what looks good. In theory you get
a dead heat in handicaps. If done reasonably, every horse gets a chance to win, so I don't agree that punters would be too aggrieved. It is hard to come from say 30 or 40, but there is heightened excitement to see a handicapped horse win, and also see a lesser horse win too good for owners etc too.. I'm also advocating standing starts to mix things up. We used to have mix in standing starts and mobiles at the Melb. Showgrounds as I recall.. it was great viewing. And most importantly you'd hope that you will get more trainers , drivers and owners winning rather than a concentrated few, simply because coming from behind can create more difficulties. So to me it's firstly about the spectacle.. ie mobiles and starts from absolute stop . The punters just have to wear any issues, and as as I say, a handicap in theory should result in dead heats . The industry is simply just doing what they are used to.. mobiles.. they need to mix things up.

[Messenger]

I like stands and handicaps but if the powers that be are correct - it was costing us punters. Not really a punter anymore but do understand how it funds the industry and we have to compete with the dogs and the gallops where a runner rarely blows its chance at the start
It would seem that you cannot say "The punters just have to wear any issues" for punters will look elsewhere they say.
It was after the Hunter Cup in 2015 that it came to a head when the favourite Adore Me never got away. It was heavily pushed by some harness journalists but you have to imagine the uproar if the Melbourne Cup field was dispatched via a walk up start and the favourite didn't compete (it was pretty much the equivalent of that). Here is the race

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX070215#MXM07021501

ps Do you thinking a mobile handicap like I suggested in post 232 could work?

[Halwes]

Yes I do think it might work. It should be put to the authorities along with what I propose too. You know the virus raises what is possible when people meet and share ideas like great scientists do. That's what CEOs new norm should
be. Roll up your sleeves, meet with people of passion and implement new things. That's the spirit. Invite people in, be inclusive. Great results can occur when you are inclusive. That's why we will get a vaccine more quickly for COVID-19 than we would have achieved years ago. People in leadership in all walks need to fully and openly and sincerely do that .

[Halwes]

Yes looked at the race. It doesn't alter my opinion about what I say. Trainers certainly need to educate horses from day 1 of their lives. That's part of what harness racing is.
as . ,To dismiss it is part of the problem of holding fixed views

[gutwagon]

Can't see a mobile handicap ever working with the current batch of drivers and starters that are ignoring the rules and allowing so much cheating as it is. We need about 25% of races to be standing starts just so we can fairly combine all the classes into a race. With our current small horse pool we need stands more than ever.

[Mighty Atom]

A horse that has been racing week after week in mobiles and then lined up in a stand expecting them to get away smoothly is very dicey. They have been educated to anticipate the start in mobiles and to get to the lead as fast as they can then expecting them to stand patiently waiting for the start is asking a little too much - it is not the horse's fault. There is nothing that irritates me more at the trots than to see horses galloping out or breaking in a race such as our useless trotters over here ( trotting races in WA should be banned unless all held behind a mobile and even then we have gallopers) We have one trotter that is faultless and nearly always ends up in the money at good prices.

Many years ago before the introduction of mobile barriers at GP very few horses galloped out at the start it was a great spectacle I am not a fan of standing start races now and I'm sure the public isn't when a horse that they have backed cannot get away safely. Unless you have a very good stand horse don't nominate.

[Halwes]

I did say that training for standing starts must/could begin as a horse is broken in, certainly to mix it in with it's learning, another one. I fear though that no one is really going to listen to me..they'll say "its too late to bring them back, horses broke or galloped too much so as punters they wouldn't accept it. I have seen quite a few horses breaking in mobiles too at present putting them out of the race. What I have noticed mostly though is that there are a large number of 1609 and 1720?? races...too many which are very short races so winning from the second row is harder. Many years ago the number of short races like 1609 could be counted on the fingers of one hand. I have to tell you that in my view, this significantly detracts from the racing spectacle. It is mesmorisingly boring. Watching the longer races is interesting. Scheduling standing starts ( after consultation ( and giving quite a lot if notice) makes these races very interesting . Remember I said mix it up. I also did not say ' introduce handicap standing starts overnight ' . But the authorities can approach drivers about all this . But remember that the trainers are not the only people to satisify. It's the people. The knockers often get entrenched in their views and I am sure that the overriding thought would be , " crowds wont come back" and ' we get funding mainly from the tab etc so I couldn't care what a racegoer thinks" BTW once upon a time, the miracle mile was a big spectacle, they are just another race now. In my strong view, the spectacle is so cloned, so process driven. They have got it very wrong.They'll get me and my friends returning if they do what I suggest. Even more significantly, standing starts add skill, horsemanship to the spectacle. Isn't that what we want.. I have seen in a number of posts criticism of drivers... so won't what I suggest change that somewhat. To present your own unique 'product' also called in marketing terms " product differentiation" That in short means having a different product to show .
I must admit that after I read Rod's comment above, I really felt disillusioned. I hope you at least reflect on everything I say here.

[Messenger]

Rod may be right Terry
1609m dominance was IMO all about the fascination of posting fast times (to go on a horse's record), copying of the North American scene, and competing with the gallops and dogs codes who's races take less time (for broadcasting). Not that I can see how that is really relevant with the gallops as they take forever to get them in the barriers but then again they are the dominant code and the time generally goes hand in hand with previewing their race - something they don't really do for us.
A huge number of people would agree with you about continuous mile racing being boring but I cannot agree that the MM is just another race now (although I have said that it often falls flat and IMO that is due to it being a mile)

The people they need to get interested are also the young. I have rarely got to Melton and have only been to Menangle for one big night but I think they are endeavoring to attract families from their regions - I wouldn't know their crowd breakdowns. Some believe that where these 'metro' tracks are located is a big problem. The off track offering needs to compliment the racing as competition for the entertainment dollar is red hot nowadays. Time between races has to be utilized or reduced. Us oldies who used to be happy dashing up the concrete steps at the Showgrounds now want a good meal and a comfy seat :D. In this regard I can recommend a couple of tracks such as Ballarat. It has been along decades since I have been to Bendigo and Shepparton and must get there to see how they stack up nowadays.

You, I and everybody cannot be disillusioned by people who disagree as we don't know it all

[Halwes]

Kevin I hear what you say, I do.
You raise the issue of crowd attraction. It is of course relevant. However the crowd issue is in fact a separate matter. Whats important is to list topics and tease each of these topics and flesh out points in a problem solving way. In the Quality Management world there is a tool called Ishikawa Diagram, also called Fishbone Diagram. This is a tool to facilitate identify key areas where inter-relationships exist. Where there are issues that cross overs, these become part of the equation to help arriving at potential solutions.
It's a shame you and me and others aren't heard.
Crowd attraction is difficult and does need a lot of discussion as indeed does the issue of the spectacle.
In my next post I an going to talk about AFL and Soccer and how it is difficult to get heard too about critically important issues.. I just can't seem to log on on my lap top. I find it painful and error prone to wrote posts on my phone as I do all the time

[Halwes]

I don't like Peter Vallandi much.. But occasionally he says good things. He is in the news today re the Premier's decision not to proceed with an $800 million upgrade of the ANZ stadium in Sydney. He wants to spend good money on mostly regional places... this pleases the locals..youre doing more things at regional places rather than spending heaps on one stadium with the $800 million..though I think it would be less than 800 millions due to the need for dough everywhere...His idea about crowds is similar to your one. He says that places can become community assets , if the customer experience is a very good one... he said all.this today but of course he is talking about a code, rugby, ( although he might be thinking more broadly) the rugby code has more grip than Harness.. he talks about crowds of 20000. Despite the very cold place of Ballarat, I do agree with you, largely for the reason that Ballarat is a festival place, sport is a big thing there, and Eureka stuff is still powerful but should be even more powerful. The Council are proud, Premier Andrews was behind the AFL playing regionally there. The problem with Melton is that it has no soul, it's populated by families too buggered to go to Harness, plenty of undesirables etc etc. Melton Harness was thrown money to get its home track set up, but not a Zac was provided after that in essence. So in my view it has failed. It suits trainers to be at Melton, but if they are making a modest living... It's ok as far as they concerned.
Ballarat is s good choice.. Scheduling winter races requires more discussion but it's too cold in winter. The set up years ago was awful...The betting area was down in a low area ... I thought it shocking..but I am a fan of Ballarat. Meetings could be scheduled to dove tail in with an AFL game on the same day. Again though if Harness Racing ignores or only consults who it thinks it should, it will likely fail... of course if I dont see improving the spectacle like I suggest,I won't be interested . I am a good person to attract as living far away, I'd use Ballarat
accommodation, probably go to the sound and light show again (blood on the southern cross.. fabulous) and the sovereign hill dinner etc etc
Kevin, they will have to find money among competing interests. The AFL fanatics wherever they are, will want a lot of dough thrown at ground redevelopment for the footy ground.. And every govt is broke because of COVID so getting dough for Ballarat Harness will be exceedingly difficult . Pray to the Lord and get the rosary beads out too to pray to Our Lady
PS we here at albury wodonga suffer because of the tyranny of distance... forgotten, yet the region is large and earns a lot of money in agriculture.. But harness up here is not nascent, it's dying...
Finally, it's instructive to look at the demographics.Melb pop is 4.9 mill so is Sydney's rounding up . But when you compare pop in NSW and Vic , the difference is stark...8 mill in NSW and 6.49 mill. That suggest on the surface that NSW regions might attract more crowds because there are simply more people in the Regions.. though it's not that simple.. as NSW is so big. Lots of things for discussion... again such a pity we don't become part of the discussions.
.. you know I the next 10 years or less, people will demand to be consulted...im certain of that... so the position description of CEOs will mandate community consultation and expect these people to bring very very good data with them.

[Mighty Atom]

Rod may be right Terry
1609m dominance was IMO all about the fascination of posting fast times (to go on a horse's record), copying of the North American scene, and competing with the gallops and dogs codes who's races take less time (for broadcasting). Not that I can see how that is really relevant with the gallops as they take forever to get them in the barriers but then again they are the dominant code and the time generally goes hand in hand with previewing their race - something they don't really do for us.
A huge number of people would agree with you about continuous mile racing being boring but I cannot agree that the MM is just another race now (although I have said that it often falls flat and IMO that is due to it being a mile)

The people they need to get interested are also the young. I have rarely got to Melton and have only been to Menangle for one big night but I think they are endeavoring to attract families from their regions - I wouldn't know their crowd breakdowns. Some believe that where these 'metro' tracks are located is a big problem. The off track offering needs to compliment the racing as competition for the entertainment dollar is red hot nowadays. Time between races has to be utilized or reduced. Us oldies who used to be happy dashing up the concrete steps at the Showgrounds now want a good meal and a comfy seat :D. In this regard I can recommend a couple of tracks such as Ballarat. It has been along decades since I have been to Bendigo and Shepparton and must get there to see how they stack up nowadays.

You, I and everybody cannot be disillusioned by people who disagree as we don't know it all

Hi Kev, you are right it's the younger brigade we have to entice back to harness racing it's going to be a struggle. A huge problem there is no media coverage or very little when it comes to harness racing unlike thoroughbreds so the Millenials just don't know much about it.
When I was a very young bloke back in the 70's newspaper coverage in WA was on par with the gallops. I used to cut out full-page ads advertising the horses/trots. Never liked the word trots it conjured up some bad images but no one called it harness racing back then. Remember running up the lawn embankment to the betting ring (barely legal gambling age) then over to the tote for my quinellas having no idea what I had in my hand then down to the rails close as I could get to the action. That's what we gotta get back to the fun and the excitement of the horses racing although big ask I think these days. I still have many newspaper cut-outs from way back showing the extent of marketing harness racing it would be a huge boost if we could replicate this today. I've posted a couple below circa 1968.

[Mighty Atom]

Hi Terry, you probably got stacks of Halwes pics but this is one I found after his Miracle Mile win 1968 (black and white, unfortunately). The caption below read: Tasmania's Pegasus on wheels, Halwes at Harold Park recently, Jack Watts, the doyen of Sydney trotting trainers, was even moved to say he might be better than Walla Walla.:cool:

[Halwes]

Hi Kevin
Thanks so much I hadn't seen the words in the caption, so good to find something new. You know, the doyen of trotting In NSW, Jack Watts really knew who was the best horse horse ever in Australia. It was such a pity he was scratched in the 68 Inter.. he was so superior to any horse. I keep remembering that I never ever saw him weaken on any run. He was fast and training was different then, so forget the times of others, and nothing could beat him over 3000 m. Blacks a Fake didn't look like a top horse in running, but Halwes would beat him from the death seat if they met .. which of course couldn't happen

[Messenger]

Thanks Rod :D

[Messenger]

I know HRA http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/top-stories/#lead is the place for news
But searching for an announcement I looked at HRV's https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/
When you hover on News on the homepage and select All News you will get 5 large pics/stories and 8 smaller pics/stories to choose from (on my desktop anyway)
BUT this site is wasting opportunity and somewhat insulting as the 5 large stories are from October 2019 ????!!!!! :confused:

[Halwes]

I wrote a detailed post about harness and included a related and also detailed rationale about the notion of improvement in sport , it took me 40 minutes .. I lost all of it ... it is trying to recall it but it’s a goner. It included a very Very detailed Rationale about afl too... detailed arguments to improve that sport a lot.. all lost .. not happy
But in relation to standing starts. This is a bare bones summary of what I lost. I’d start to reintroduce them in the premier race .. the interdominion. I’d make the longest heat ( probably) a standing start. I’d give trainers notice to adjust 12 -18months . This would reintroduce the skills of horsemanship, diligence, persistence, patience and spectacle.. the miserable punter can then do their homework and see what trainers and horses do the work with selected horses and prepare them. You might have heats of pacing cups and also have a standing start in those. We need to get races with the top horses entered, so pacing cups and interdominions would contain a standing start You might have to shave small amounts of winning dividends of other races, or have meetings which drop of the last race to divert winnings to the premier races. If we get more horses like Poster Boy to enter the premier events, the better. The name Group 1 is well known but it’s not really a marketing term really, nor does it distinguish harness from thoroughbred racing. Having said all this, yes it’s improvement but not game changing. We need more Hunter Cups, we need more of those tortuous 3000 metre races and 3000 metre heats in big races .

[Messenger]

Terry, you will have to convince the industry there is a benefit to returning to stand starts again - $$$
The top horses already target the premier events. The bigger the prize the more you attract. These big prizemoney events are already generally receiving more money than they bring in - money diverted from general revenue - people understand this and seem to agree with the system

[Messenger]

Surely every job has a person who is responsible
It is now 10pm and the replays for the 7.30, 8.00 and 8.30 races at Terang are still not up

[Messenger]

Still not up

Edit: Told they had internet issues last night and will be onto it today

[Messenger]

I think the Melton – Country tracks combo Victoria have used during the lockdown should be the blueprint for the future
By that I mean, splitting the Metro prizemoney races between Friday and Saturday and between Melton and the big Regional tracks.
It gives followers 2 excellent meets to follow in 2 popular timeslots. They need to be the evening time slots (Mildura Friday night doesn’t really cut if for most)

Of course we have the Big country cups already and there will be some big nights of all Metro for Melton but for the majority of the weekends I think we should split the metro races between Melton and Major Regional – Friday and Saturday

[gutwagon]

Looks like the board could have some inside knowledge about the curfew being lifted or put back further !

[Messenger]

The Melbourne curfew is now 9pm not that we had to follow it as drivers and trainers are going to work

[Messenger]

One of the reasons we don't rank with the gallops is our performance
It needs to be best practice every time - I cannot understand why there isn't someone responsible to see that it is

Take todays Vic Cup barrier draw on Sky
Jason and Brittany are good performers but that was about it
The replays intro was poor quality video (even the recent ones)
I can just picture the great video the French would produce

If you are going to do ball and barrel barrier draws in future
get some large balls with black on yellow (or colour coded to match the race numbers)
There should have been a list of the field on display
and of course we should be able get an evening time slot even if it is 2 chunks of 10mins
If Sky won't come to the party, do it on TrotsVision (good to promote our own channel) and just give Sky a replay

I won't accept Covid as an excuse

[Messenger]

Somehow I receive emails like this from the gallops

We should be doing something similar

[Messenger]

Following on from the above, Do we care about getting people to the trots?
I left Horsham early last meet because it was too l-o-n-g between races
I would go to Maryborough on Thursday (despite it being 1½hrs each way) but once again we have plenty of 40min gaps (even a 43min)
Imagine going to a concert and the band play one song and then take a 40 minute break - that is what we are offering attendees

[Messenger]

We have debated Drivers Colours on the forum before and they are in the news again

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=47478

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=47457

Not going to debate it again but have to say, shouldn't the colours be clearly identifiable (without binocs) even when in the back straight - only a couple of those pictured stand out IMO

[Showgrounds]

Maybe give them greyhounds colours.

[JanellePeter]

I would like to throw up an idea on how to make Harness Racing fairer and potentially generate some new interest by doing something different.
I put the idea in a web-page to make it easier to explain.
http://pjdata.com.au/idea/

[Messenger]

I think it is a poor adaption of the figure 8 track idea a poster suggested to me quite some time back - the figure 8 idea being better because you do not have the cross over (but do require a special figure 8 track)
The cross overs in your idea Janelle would make the Steve Bradbury race look like a picnic, the crossovers could/would result in horse and driver carnage - the give way idea would never work as horses are not push button machines

Thinking further on how your idea could work would involve the outside horses having to be a fair distance behind the inside horses coming to the crossover but it only takes a straggler in the inside group to cause carnage

[JanellePeter]

Perhaps I should have provided the maths. Typical track with 100m radius and track width available of 16m, therefore outer markers at 108m radius.
Ignoring straights,
1 Lap of a circle with 100m radius = 628m
1 Lap of circle with 108m radius = 678m. That's 50m extra the outer horses run in one lap. I can't see too many conflicts at crossover with that advantage.

[Messenger]

Fairly true but it would mean stragglers - horse that made a break would have to drop out. 50m off the back of the field and still figure in a finish has happened but for your Steve Bradbury racing (Steve himself - way off the back of the field) the Steves are going to have to be disqualified so that it is clear to punters eg like gallopers in French trotting races. We simply cannot have the potential for carnage
It will be a bit like straight six furlong racing at Flemington where the field splits to either fence - I am not sure how enamored the public are about not knowing who is leading until the very end - I know Race-callers aren't actually fans
I would love to see a figure 8 race but alas a track

[Messenger]

I appreciate the excitement you are trying to create Janelle, it would be similar to when we had Stand Start handicaps and champions used to give weaker horses huge starts and have to come from behind. The public loved it
Maybe we were a bit hasty in getting rid of Stand Starts

[JanellePeter]

I don't understand why a horse that breaks would have to drop out? It is the same as current racing but they just have to follow the inner outer course.
All horses can still start together with a mobile start - If one breaks there is nothing different. If it breaks anywhere on the course it's still no different.
I think this racing has the ability to reduce carnage because you are putting smaller groups of horses together. At the moment one horse breaks and it can take half of a field out of play.
Figure 8 won't happen because you need to build a track as you said. You wouldn't need to do much at all to implement this idea.
It is something different and the sport needs something different because the same old seems to be leading to a slow death.

[Messenger]

It has to drop out for with your model we cannot afford to have an inside horse anywhere near level with an outside horse at the crossover point - I thought that was obvious
This racing model cannot reduce carnage as we don't have carnage nowadays - I'm afraid that without the disqualification and pulling up of horses that make a break, we have a recipe for carnage

[aussiebreno]

While yes ordinarily the inside pack would be well ahead of the putside pack the potential for carnage exists and would bee too high.

While sure we give drivers cheers and sprays by and large we watch racing for the horses. I think tactics and timing your horse would have far too great an impact on the result. Then trying to read form when its been such a tactical event - leave me out of that.

[Messenger]

We definitely need better promotion. Right now at the bottom of HRV's homepage

https://www.thetrots.com.au/

We have 3 pics promoting events that are 5+ months away. We cannot waste any space promoting events that are more than a month away

[Messenger]

DON'T follow American racing and have nothing but mile racing on big tracks.
I have been watching a bit of YouTube to form an opinion of some of the new sires and I feel like I am watching the same race over and over again

[Messenger]

Many trainers just have a facebook page as simpler alternative to a webpage.
Looking at one Leading stable's fb page today that had not had an update for 9 months

[Messenger]

Prioritize Integrity

From the Qld carnival, the stewards finally handed down their verdict this week regarding their Oaks and Mick Stanley got away with only a fine for kicking his horse in the home straight to try and gain an advantage
(see Stewards News thread for details)

So come Saturday, what do HRV do - they make him co-presenter for tonight's metro meet at Ballarat tonight

We have a culture problem (acceptance of), no wonder we are about to have another scandal or two rock the sport

[KTQ]

To encourage participant interest and interaction with the sport, they should have a horse gearing contest using a full set of harness including boots and those plastic horses they model horse rugs on. Aim is speed to gear up the horse and proper fit.
Level 1 is non-horse people with no instructions, Level 2 is non-horse people with instructions, Level 3 is harness industry people. Film it and use it for promotion. It would be hilarious and so easy to go viral

[Showgrounds]

Reckon I'd be a chance at that Katie. Plenty of practice in the dark, in freezing weather and under the weather!

[KTQ]

At 583kb, a screenshot of this tweet is too large to post but isnt this photo lovely. Someone posted to give the kid a horseshoe which is the cheapest, easiest most loveliest way of creating good sentiment with a family and future generations. Will it happen?



https://mobile.twitter.com/GloucesterPark/status/1430099613592166402

[Messenger]

This is the image KT is referring to

[KTQ]

This is the image KT is referring to

The actual tweet posted by Gloucester Park read: "Every Tuesday without doubt these regulars are here to watch the first 2-3 races. Here's hoping son picks up the reins #thanksdad #harnessracing"

[Messenger]

Yirribee Pacing Stud is up for sale
I have placed it in this thread as it is interesting to read Rod Woodhouse's thoughts on the stallion levy

"I’m the first to say when the levy was first mentioned, I was against it.

“But when you stop and think about it, we should’ve done it 15-20 years ago and we’d be in a better place as an industry.

“When I thought about it, over the past 10 years we’ve probably sent hundreds of millions of dollars offshore and it’s just not sustainable. If we continue to do that, we’ll end-up down the gurgler and won’t have an industry.”

“There’s going to be some short-term pain for long term gain."

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=51973

[Messenger]

I was in Horsham today but did not feel the urge to go to the trots
I may ofen be a critical fan but I don't think anybody doubts I am a harness fan so what is wrong with our product when a fan is in the neighbourhood but does not bother to go
I think in Horsham's case (and others like it), it is first and foremost the track inside the gallops track does absolutely nothing for me
Ways that this can be partly offset is to provide that closeness in the parade ring (the mounting yard is the thing I like most at the gallops) but as is often the case, when I was at Horsham last month, the horses spent no time in the parade ring - not even the one out the back near the stables, they came out of the barn and headed straight for the track. At little tracks like Stawell (where I find they actually do spend time in the parade ring) it does not matter so much as the small track provides the up close experience, including while they are warming up

I want the trots to reign again so we have to come up with some ideas. I don't know whether a Million dollar slots race like NZ are trying would do it because I am not sure it would be a big enough deal in Oz (the Inter has at times had massive prizemoney but that does not seem to have done the trick)

:confused: How could we get a Netflix series made about some of our participants, Drive To Survive has totally reinvigorated F1

[Showgrounds]

I am thinking of going to Warragul on Sunday for the Cup meeting. I have no interest in any of the runners but it is an intimate venue with top class facilities and all the features lacking at venues with trotting tracks inside the gallops tracks, ie, Cranbourne, Yarra Glen, Kilmore, Swan Hill (Nyah track still looks great) and Horsham. Kilmore, for example, used to be a great day out but redevoping the track to 1000 metres just put the horses further away.

[KTQ]

Service beats food any time. There are restaurants with the most divine food but rude service and I'll never go back. Restaurants can have an amazing server place dog food in the table and I'd be back.

People want to feel something.

[Bonnie]

I had a first starter racing at Geelong last week and received a text from the Club . ‘ Come and watch your horse race on Easter Thursday night at Geelong. Admission, Race Book & 2 course meal for $40 per person’ . ( Note: Admission and Race Books are free for all attendees ! )
Geelong Club is at Corio , there are no restaurants or Hotels close by and we usually eat at the Club Dining Room.
We fronted up to reception and we’re asked if we had a booking. Said No, never booked before in our life. Spare tables and chairs everywhere. Lady said you must have a booking , caterer only provides enough food for those who have booked. We were directed to a Take Away area underneath the stand. A Bain Marie full of fried food , not good enough! The administration of this Club has been a disaster for the past 10 years plus.HRV needs to make major changes or shut it down. If Ballarat and Maryborough can provide good meals for patrons and participants on a walk up basis the Geelong Club needs a serious shake up.

[Messenger]

Wow that is so NOT good enough
As well as Ballarat and Maryborough you can add Stawell, Ararat, Hamilton, Yarra Valley, ...... (probably every club)
On top of that it was not just any night it was Thursday - the start of the Easter break
If the club could not promote/back themselves in to fill up their dining room without bookings then they were not trying and missed a big opportunity. Compared to some of these other clubs they have the whole of Geelong on their doorstep, we're talking about 250k compared to some of these other clubs with not even a tenth of that

[Showgrounds]

I've long harboured the thought that HRV, instead of building what we have at Melton, could have taken over Geelong, spent a couple of million bringing the facilities up to scratch and banked the rest.

[Messenger]

On the AHRI facebook page, after giving the Eureka the thumbs down, Gordon Banks had the following to say:

There must also be a focus on giving young horses a fair chance to compete without constant handicaps and outside posts, and on giving owners a reasonable chance to make money with mediocre horses. Under the current system, anything less than a Stake horse is a dead end street!

And your entry system allowing entrants a look see and withdrawal is incredibly counterproductive. It creates a situation under which races don't fill, especially for young horses. Instead you need race secretaries who create appropriate sub conditions and narrower race classifications producing the competitive races all willing to enter. And trainers should not be allowed more than one entry in any race, unless field doesn't fill. Even then there must be a two horse limit to break the stranglehold that the dominant barns take advantage of! Additionally, the computer draw system is a non transparent disaster, creating a widespread sense of inequity and manipulation!

[Messenger]

We have to decide if we want people to attend meetings.

I was thinking about going to Ararat today but in winter what is one going to do for the 43 minutes (40 by the time the race is over) between race 2 & 3 and the 40 minutes between races 3 & 4
Maybe I am a bit 'precious' but my time is definitely precious to me
We all know that 30mins between races is probably ideal (< suits attendees but maybe not larger stables)

Maybe this is another reason the Dogs have passed us
Melbourne dogs today has the maximum between races of 20mins

[Messenger]

Cobram today we have 25 mins between some races, 35 mins between some races and 40 mins between some races. it is all about when the gallops start and trying to be on Sky1 of course
Oh 25 mins between all races - heaven

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=CO110722

[Messenger]

It is not the gallops that are hurting us, it is the Dogs
There are only 4 gallops meets today - 1 VIC, 2 NSW (there would have been 3 but 1 Abandoned), 1 QLD [there are plenty of International gallops tonight]
There are only 4 harness meets one for VIC, NSW, QLD, WA [a few International trots before midday]
The dogs have 12 Australian dogs meets but 1 is Abandoned, 6 are daytime meets plus there is a NZ one

[Messenger]

A lack of public awareness that we even exist is our biggest problem
Here is an American idea to remedy this

In an event initiated and presented by the U.S. Trotting Association, social media influencers Nick Luciano, Blake Moore, Beau Deatrick and Roy Dinges, members of Tratter Co., will visit The Meadowlands for the Hambletonian on Saturday (Aug. 6).

https://ustrottingnews.com/usta-presents-tratter-co-visit-to-the-hambletonian-at-the-meadowlands/

ps And we just have to have a 'Ladies In Red Evening'

[Messenger]

45 minutes between R2 - R3 at Hamilton must be just about a record but at least it is only 29mins to the next

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=HM130722

[Messenger]

Following on from yesterday's premise that what the sports leaders have been doing is not working (Thanks Archie)
Let's think outside the box and come up with ways that we might reinvigorate harness racing

Some guidelines:
They should still be palatable to most of our existing fans
Still in essence be harness racing and suited to Standardbreds
Mindful of animal welfare
Ideally not cost an absolute fortune or years to come to fruition (as I am not sure we have the time)

This is brainstorming, you don't have to have completely thought out the ideas, they may or may not work (who knows at this point), they may even spark a better idea from someone else.
Posters be kind to those who have the courage to throw something out there

[Messenger]

Here goes

We need punting revenue
It seems to me that the most successful harness in the world is Europe
A few years ago we were providing product for France
Has this the potential to be seriously profitable if we get it right?

Have the last half of our evening meets 4 or 5 trots races that lead into France's own afternoon of racing
Using TrotsVision or Sky whatever, recruit a French race-caller for the feed

Maybe Russia should be the target if they are such big gamblers, I don't know, just throwing a Leftie out there

[Theoldfox]

Hmmmm. perhaps do a search engine search with the following key words before mentioning Russian gambling too loudly!

"russia mafia match fixing"

I think few sports have been affected by "their" (I won't name them as I still have will to live, ;) ) long reaching arm. On the other hand, perhaps their involvement is a sign that an industry's betting turnover is great and worth their while!


Here goes

We need punting revenue
It seems to me that the most successful harness in the world is Europe
A few years ago we were providing product for France
Has this the potential to be seriously profitable if we get it right?

Have the last half of our evening meets 4 or 5 trots races that lead into France's own afternoon of racing
Using TrotsVision or Sky whatever, recruit a French race-caller for the feed

Maybe Russia should be the target if they are such big gamblers, I don't know, just throwing a Leftie out there

[Beltane]

Russia may be a place to go as they are silly enough to bet on things like this dodgy enterprise:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/11/cricket-fake-ipl-tournament-farm-russian-gamblers-india-police-betting-scam-the-sting

But seriously no future tracks should be over 1,000 metres in length, to try and give attendees some spectacle value, unlike the 1,400 metre Menangle track where in the back straight the horses are out there in the distance. It is embarrassing to take guests to the track, and the only racing spectacle is when the runners come down the main straight, whilst the rest of the race is watched on the TV screens.

[Messenger]

It works for the gallops however Steve but I agree that small track action is a point of difference that we should be exploiting for the excitement factor

While on tracks, someone once suggested to me a figure 8 track - a great way to maybe negate leader bias - could look incredible

[Showgrounds]

It works for the gallops however Steve but I agree that small track action is a point of difference that we should be exploiting for the excitement factor

While on tracks, someone once suggested to me a figure 8 track - a great way to maybe negate leader bias - could look incredible

Figure 8. Something akin to a flag and barrel race with sulkies. What could possibly go wrong?

[Messenger]

"Posters be kind to those who have the courage to throw something out there"

On a large 8, I don't think it would be as chaotic as you are suggesting Trev. I see the pole and the death more or less rotating the lead. I wouldn't mind seeing it. There would be a grass track somewhere that you could peg it out and see how it works(gallops)

[Showgrounds]

It would need to be a big, big 8 Kev and I reckon the sight of horses pulling up lame would prove counter-productive. Then again it would be a better spectacle than Trot Rods and Mercury 80.

[Messenger]

Come on people, we are dying and need ideas

[Theoldfox]

I agree!
1. Bring back smaller tracks
2. Get rid of the sprint lanes
3. Remove mandatory split times
4. Bring back the standing starts

Racing has become fixated on fast times, not spectacle. The skill, and cleverness of drivers has been made less important. Racing has been slowly changed and designed to ensure the "expected" result is achieved. Tactics and smarts are removed from the equation. I know people will say that the changes reduce race fixing, but I think this is yet to be proven. Drivers would still be held accountable where suspicious actions were taken. Throwing condition that make tactics more important and bringing back Standing Starts ensures that people find punting more exciting. They punter needs to guess on driver actions and skill and how they think the race will play out. On an 800 metre track and a rival driver can think about how to beat the favourite, versus a race on a 1400m track and the favourite will just bulldoze past on talent giving nothing else a chance....it may be fairer to the owners of that better horse, but does nothing to create excitement and resurrect the industry. Boring and robotic is how I often see races now.



Russia may be a place to go as they are silly enough to bet on things like this dodgy enterprise:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/11/cricket-fake-ipl-tournament-farm-russian-gamblers-india-police-betting-scam-the-sting

But seriously no future tracks should be over 1,000 metres in length, to try and give attendees some spectacle value, unlike the 1,400 metre Menangle track where in the back straight the horses are out there in the distance. It is embarrassing to take guests to the track, and the only racing spectacle is when the runners come down the main straight, whilst the rest of the race is watched on the TV screens.

[Messenger]

"Boring and robotic is how I often see races now"

That is true of many of our races Em and 99% of USA races

[JanellePeter]

Left field ideas are my thing. The sport is slowly dying for 2 reasons.
1 - General public think it is dodgy and don't want to punt because of that. The racing needs to be fair.
2 - It hasn't offered anything new to attract the easily distracted young people.

I previously offered the idea of speed skating to make races fairer. It was knocked back very quickly but you shouldn't knock back ideas with proper consideration and understanding.
Get 4 runners on a trial day to give it a go and you might find that it is possible and actually provides fairer racing.
http://pjdata.com.au/idea/
Another idea - Straight line racing - 2.5Km stretch with lanes for every horse. No interference, no sitting behind another horse to get a cart home just fastest horse wins.
On animal welfare the idea of straight line racing could then allow for driverless races and no buggies. Don't laugh. This is already happening oversees - Driven on the sidelines.

I disagree that the general public will be drawn in by by smaller tracks and driver skill. They are betting on the horse and it would be good to know each runner is going to get a fair chance. If punters want to see drivers race, get the drivers to run along the home straight carrying a buggy behind. I actually would bet on that! Pencil that in as idea number 3.

[Messenger]

Janelle, people suggested a figure 8 track could be a disaster, I cannot see how your speed skating/crossover idea, could not result in collisions
Of course your 2.5km straight stretch idea is premised on the idea that spectators/attendees are no longer important
I know I am sounding negative but need you to elaborate
We do know that small tracks drew crowds and created excitement decades ago that of course may/would seem to be history but at least the small track has some form in the form guide

Probably better discussed in another thread but I very much take your point about the perception that it is dodgy. Some will argue that racing has its fair share of scandals but somehow the press/public seem to be more understanding of them

[JanellePeter]

I don't know how to explain the speed skating any clearer sorry. It is separating horses and should therefore reduce collision.
If you run 2 horses around a track - One on the inner and other on the outer part of the track they will be 50m away from each other by the time the complete 1 lap.
It is more than enough room to switch lanes.
When they enter the straight the final time horses running at equal speeds will come together but they don't need to switch over in the final straight.
This idea provides more opportunity for horses on inner / outer to get clear running or rails runs and is very easy to setup on existing tracks that have sufficient width.

We also thought the introduction of the our individual sectional times back in 2015 and PJ Analyser soon after would provide the punters with more information which is a key driver these days to make the punter feel empowered with information.

[Messenger]

Right, I wasn't thinking about how far the outside should be behind the inside (50m?) but I would still worry that if there are any stragglers in say a field of 8, there could be a recipe for collisions

[Big K]

Left field ideas are my thing. The sport is slowly dying for 2 reasons.
1 - General public think it is dodgy and don't want to punt because of that. The racing needs to be fair.
2 - It hasn't offered anything new to attract the easily distracted young people.

I previously offered the idea of speed skating to make races fairer. It was knocked back very quickly but you shouldn't knock back ideas with proper consideration and understanding.
Get 4 runners on a trial day to give it a go and you might find that it is possible and actually provides fairer racing.
http://pjdata.com.au/idea/
Another idea - Straight line racing - 2.5Km stretch with lanes for every horse. No interference, no sitting behind another horse to get a cart home just fastest horse wins.
On animal welfare the idea of straight line racing could then allow for driverless races and no buggies. Don't laugh. This is already happening oversees - Driven on the sidelines.

I disagree that the general public will be drawn in by by smaller tracks and driver skill. They are betting on the horse and it would be good to know each runner is going to get a fair chance. If punters want to see drivers race, get the drivers to run along the home straight carrying a buggy behind. I actually would bet on that! Pencil that in as idea number 3.

I think both options presented are full of merit. I just had a quick look at the speed skating scenario and think it is something I would like to see given ago.. initially at trials and adopted from there into racing if it is workable. I have for a long time thought that straight track racing is our future or at the least there is a track in each State. It provides more opportunities for everybody involved..especially the punters who provide our income for stakes and whom we are losing hand over fist currently. I have friends who go to the Gallops for the day but still only watch the races on tv there as it's impossible to really see what's going on unless you have binoculars... but the perception is that you get a run for your money.. which is becoming lost with betting on harness. In my opinion, I wouldn't like to see lanes as if one horse makes a break or veer's out it can have a knock on effect and the stewards would have a full time job sorting it out..I think the option of drivers having the choice of ducking in behind another runner till he was ready to unleash would allow the driver the room and the skill to be on show still. I think a very immediate thing that needs to be done is to create mobile handicapping system using a lighting system.. it can be done in this day and age..10mtr blocks of lights of different coloured lights that move in unison with the speed of the mobile. Short priced favourites can kill a race and many punters just look on but more over bet more on the gallops and the dogs, we need to put value back into betting on the trots. We need to change things or we will perish if we don't make changes to the way we race.
Anyhow just some of my thoughts.

[Messenger]

Big Kev, your point that rings truest for me is that we still have far too many short priced/odds on favourites that kills general public betting. We cannot be dependent on a couple of dozen pro punters competing with each other taking exotics - for that is what I believe is going on half the time. Like you said "we need to change things or we will perish" - ASAP but good luck with getting the industry to agree
(ps We must get the racing media to believe in our integrity and product)

[JanellePeter]

Remember this is left field subject:
Straight line racings does present some other opportunities. Bridges over the track at various points would give the patrons some different viewing. Glass paneling so patrons can view but can't interrupt the racing.
A moving grandstand would be a great attraction people would pay to go on - Follow the race along. I would put this on the inside of the track and let it accomodate stewards and cameramen as well as a select number of patrons. I am picturing a medium sized structure on tracks. Would take a bit to get it started so false starts would be interesting. Would also have to be well fenced off!
Because most of the following these days is on the screen the straight line racing would see a camera follow the racing for the length of the race. No squinting to see your horse in the back straight on your screen.

On the point of small crowds I think most people these days go to the races for the stuff in between racings. Gallops seem to have fashion all tied up so harness racing should come up with something different. I don't know what but maybe others have some good ideas here.

[Messenger]

These definitely could be good ideas for Jeff Gural owner of the Meadowlands more so than us (at this stage/finances)
I did state in the opening post: Ideally not cost an absolute fortune

The gallops have a close up camera inside the track following the field - so no squinting for TV viewers (and I am not referring to just straight 6 racing either)
I think many people go to the races for the dining - have been known to never go out for a race
I cannot see us competing with that BUT must improve in that area
Alternative thinking (from someone who will not go to nearby trots if it is too long between races unless it is 10/10 weather) - make the time between races MUCH shorter. It has been done

I was thinking of a small compromise on straight line racing might be a 2000m track (with 650m straights) where mile racing would only be ¾ of a lap - 609 down back str, 350m bend (like Menangle) and 650m home str [all aproximate for now]. Not saying I would love it or that I want anymore mile racing - just throwing it out there

[Showgrounds]

In the mid-90's a consortium was formed with the purpose of developing 2400 metre straight harness tracks. Racing was no be 10 across in straight lines. And NO MEMBERS OF HE PUBLIC! This was meant to be a purely televised gambling product. I know land near Maryborough (Victoria) had been selected and may even have been purchased because a colleague of mine was a consulting civil engineer on the project.

I don't recall what happened with the project. Perhaps 300 metre Greyhound races at Healesville achieved the same thing only much quicker and less boring! 20 seconds versus 160 seconds of straightline boredom. For all its foibles running two or three laps, when moves are made, is far more entertaining.

[Messenger]

This year’s Mares Triple Crown may carry the biggest PR boon yet for the series, with champion mare Ladies In Red – a winner of 19 of 23 starts – a chance to line up.

Ladies In Red has been described by some renowned trots pundits as “the Winx of harness racing”.

“Ladies In Red is a headline act, there’s no doubt about that. Champions like her capture the imagination of fans and bring people back to the track,” HRV Chief Commercial Officer Fiona Mellor said.

“We are dialling up the marketing significantly to engage fans and if she were to run on Victoria Cup night, it would be a race night that racegoers will never forget.”

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/the-make-mine-cullen-to-victoria-cup-night/

The ideas and marketing will have to improve out of sight Fiona (maybe they're finally going to have my 'Ladies In Red' night) as I reckon about 30% of the population knew who Winx was but Less than 1% know who Ladies In Red is

[Messenger]

The older I get, the more it troubles me that barrier draws are so/too important in our code - what is the answer?
I don't really want to lose our point of difference and race on big tracks
I have only been to Menangle once - maybe I need more visits to see if I could accept it (the day I was there was a Big day and I was pretty excited and not exactly analytical)

[Messenger]

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/hamilton/hamilton-lets-speed-things-up-to-keep-moving-forward/

Adam says we need to speed things up

the most alarming statistic a couple of years back was that harness racing accounted for more than 30 percent of racing “air time” on Sky Racing 1, while delivering little more than 10 percent of the overall racing turnover.

Pause and get your head around that … It's scary.

One thing we can do to slightly change that dynamic is to embrace more sprint-type racing. By that I mean the likes of the 1200m Mercury80 and last Saturday week’s Stampede. You can also throw in the very successful Trot Rods series run at Redcliffe each year.

I can hear the screams from the diehards now … “you’re kidding, those races are a joke.”

But this is not about what we want or like as an industry, it’s about what the modern punters want and what we need to try to arrest the decline.

"this is not about what we want or like as an industry, it’s about what the modern punters want and what we need to try"

YIKES!

Unfortunately when put like that, it sounds as if we are in retail or manufacturing and need to change our product
Breeding will have to change. Maybe we will have to swap from Standardbreds to Quarter horses
I think we old-timers are lucky to have seen and enjoyed what we have because it sounds like we are gone
It will be alright for a participant purely involved to make money out of horses - for trots lovers, not so much

We should have seriously looked at how the French won the public and have no concerns about their turnover on the PMU
It is probably too late here as we have allowed our brand to be trashed (the gallops and those connected to it have historically been our enemy) and the ABC may be going to deliver another nail tonight

[aussiebreno]

Can I ask Adam who is going to change to harness racing when Nature Strip runs a faster 1000m and She's A Pearl runs a faster 500m? if they want quick fast racing that's who they're watching.

[Messenger]

PP makes the very good point that Adam's 'punting dollar per minute of race time' are amiss for we have to remember that harness races pretty much get nothing more than the time it takes to run the race while gallops races often get lots of time before and after the race - to be fair these minutes have to be counted too

[aussiebreno]

PP makes the very good point that Adam's 'punting dollar per minute of race time' are amiss for we have to remember that harness races pretty much get nothing more than the time it takes to run the race while gallops races often get lots of time before and after the race - to be fair these minutes have to be counted too

Also Sat arvo traffic. 4-5 hours of the best airtime.

[Theoldfox]

Ok, If I wasn't concerned for the industry before... I definitely am now


I did a google search for "Harnesslink" on my phone and whilst clicking through and waiting for it to load I noticed the most alarming google suggestion....Under "people also ask" the first question was "Does harness racing still exist?". To the industry this should be absolutely shocking and it probably shows that we are all asleep at the wheel, whilst heading straight for the cliff that we will soon head over.

Amusingly "who is Peter Profit?" was the third question listed.

[Messenger]

The US trotting industry obviously has a better relationship with the thoroughbreds than we do

The Meadowlands management is pleased and excited to again showcase harness racing’s greatest horses and events on the Fox Sports Network via the popular television series America’s Day at the Races this season. The opportunity to join this initiative comes via an association with the New York Racing Association (NYRA).

The first of eight broadcasts will take place this Saturday (April 29) with the entire card televised alongside the opening night of Thoroughbred racing for the spring meet at Churchill Downs. The placement is ideal, exposing harness racing to a large Thoroughbred audience that is focusing on Churchill with the Kentucky Derby just a week away.

https://ustrottingnews.com/meadowlands-saturday-card-first-of-eight-on-fox-sports-network/

In Oz the thoroughbred states are at war, much less embracing harness as a partner

[Messenger]

You cannot deny that Adam really cares about harness racing
This idea has merit IMO

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/hamilton/hamilton-can-bendigo-bring-the-bool-to-breeders/

[Showgrounds]

If my memory still functions, the Breeders' Crown concept was originally championed by Alan Galloway with the finals to be held at Bendigo. HRV stuck its claws into the Crown and stole it from the regional clubs. Adam Hamilton's thoughts pretty well mirror the original vision for the event.

I admit having never been to a Breeders's Crown at Melton but that is because I find the place a depressing reminder of how good the trots used to be. The only fond memories I have of Melton are Sunday drives to get a loaf of fresh-baked bread for Sunday night's tea and fishing with Dad at Melton Weir. The thought of standing outside exposed to cold southerly winds with a glorified hot dog van to provide "comfort" food does not thrill me. Give the event back to Bendigo, I say.

[Messenger]

Yes, I think Adam acknowledges its origins, early days it may have even gone by the name of Bendigo Breeders Crown.
I loved the old days at The Showgrounds and Moonee Valley but I have also had some great nights in the Scotch Notch cafe at Melton

[trish]

Not like this.
Is it little wonder why people continue to walk away.
One participant gets 6 mths for TWO positives.
Another gets 12 mths for ONE positive for the same drug.
What am I missing???

[Showgrounds]

Not like this.
Is it little wonder why people continue to walk away.
One participant gets 6 mths for TWO positives.
Another gets 12 mths for ONE positive for the same drug.
What am I missing???

It's what HRNSW is missing, Trish. Consistency.

It's not what you are, it's who you are seems to be the way they dish out penalties.

[trish]

100% agree Trevor.

I seem to remember a participant getting time served , which was a little over 2 weeks , for their 2nd positive swab.
How do you explain that to someone who just got a year on their 1st offence or for those people who have been beaten
by trainers waiting for their cases to be heard.
Beats me!!!!

[Showgrounds]

100% agree Trevor.

I seem to remember a participant getting time served , which was a little over 2 weeks , for their 2nd positive swab.
How do you explain that to someone who just got a year on their 1st offence or for those people who have been beaten
by trainers waiting for their cases to be heard.
Beats me!!!!

I was thinking the other day, by the time John McCarthy has his positive charge (for levamisole) heard he might be too old to remember it. Three and a half years and counting!

[Messenger]

The US trotting industry obviously has a better relationship with the thoroughbreds than we do

The Meadowlands management is pleased and excited to again showcase harness racing’s greatest horses and events on the Fox Sports Network via the popular television series America’s Day at the Races this season. The opportunity to join this initiative comes via an association with the New York Racing Association (NYRA).

The first of eight broadcasts will take place this Saturday (April 29) with the entire card televised alongside the opening night of Thoroughbred racing for the spring meet at Churchill Downs. The placement is ideal, exposing harness racing to a large Thoroughbred audience that is focusing on Churchill with the Kentucky Derby just a week away.

https://ustrottingnews.com/meadowlands-saturday-card-first-of-eight-on-fox-sports-network/

In Oz the thoroughbred states are at war, much less embracing harness as a partner

More Fox Sports coverage for US harness

The Meadowlands Championship Meet is underway and will be broadcast as part of NYRA’s America’s Day at the Races on both Friday and Saturday this coming weekend (May 19 and 20).

https://ustrottingnews.com/meadowlands-on-fox-sports-friday-and-saturday/

The US seem to be heading in the right direction

[Messenger]

The constant battle to get fans in the racetrack stands

https://harnessracingupdate.com/2023/06/02/it-isnt-just-us-that-has-problems-drawing-fans/?cn-reloaded=1

Even troglodytes like me watch sports on two devices, one for the contest and another that allows searches for player stats and visualizations. We can get live scores, follow the action on social media, and fetch related videos. Getting fans out of their massage chair, navigating to a strange place, subjecting themselves to viruses, and socializing is like asking a 14-year-old kid to join a Boy Scout troop. The activity may benefit the kid but rarely happens in 2023.

I know you know all this. We all know the empty grandstands are troubling and that new digital fans are missing a cool thing being in a crowd as the trotter pulls and moves up on the backstretch, the smell of popcorn, and slapping backs with your pals. But it is not 1967, and it is what it is.

Anybody reading the whole article who does not know what 'boffo' means, just read it as good

[Messenger]

Call me harsh but the fast class race of the night at Melton was a terrible advertisement for our sport - no wonder you hear criticism that our racing is boring. The drivers might not have been able to do much about it - 1,2,3 were stablemates.
Administrators need to do something about it by either:
Demanding bigger fields (with 8 or more they cannot all race single file) OR
Bring back handicaps/stand starts

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX010723#MXM01072301

[aussiebreno]

Call me harsh but the fast class race of the night at Melton was a terrible advertisement for our sport - no wonder you hear criticism that our racing is boring. The drivers might not have been able to do much about it - 1,2,3 were stablemates.
Administrators need to do something about it by either:
Demanding bigger fields (with 8 or more they cannot all race single file) OR
Bring back handicaps/stand starts

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX010723#MXM01072301

Plodders on smaller tracks have a 64 minimum first half. FFA at Melton have a 64 minimum first half. Doesn't make sense to me they both have the same minimum requirement.

[Messenger]

I can't say I like 1200m races but maybe there is something to be said for them - there are no easy leads and therefore quite often you get barnstorming finishes

[Messenger]

The AHRIG facebook page and the Campbell's Comments fb page both have have plenty of comments on "What Industry Do You Want?". It was from a few days ago so you will have to look down the page a little. There are a few nuggets to be found

https://www.facebook.com/vege07

https://www.facebook.com/groups/236380660102847

[Messenger]

I stumbled on a good interview with HRV CEO Matt Isaacs by Brittany Graham
I really did stumble on it - saw it below the TrotsVision screen when watching Mildura today
I have struggled to find how to give you a link, as I fear it could disappear from below the TrotsVision screen
(I really do wish HRV would make it easy for us)

I think this is the best way is below as The Morning Line is a Sky program

https://www.skyracing.com.au/watch/catchup/The-Morning-Line

Go down the list until you find The Morning Line - HRV Major Announcement 19- 07-2023

He was impressive enough so fingers crossed that he could be our savior

[Messenger]

O'Connor: These new sprint races can serve multiple purposes

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/oconnor/oconnor-these-new-sprint-races-can-serve-multiple-purposes/

I am still waiting to see where they state how the new audience they are trying to attract is going to know this is happening

If somebody knows or sees a promo that those other than the 'rusted ons' is going to see - please share

[aussiebreno]

I view comparing wagering turnover last night of the 1200m against wagering turnover of a normal established meeting as a such a simpleton thing to do.

The 1200m races are new. There is no exposed form. There is no general consensus on how races will be run. There is too much unknown for any serious punting dollars to be invested. You would need 3 years not 3 weeks for widespread established form and racing patterns to become known until you can start comparing punting dollars. Its like comparing the punting on a NR60 race to an early season 2yo race.

[Messenger]

Brendan, I think your hatred of PP might be consuming you

If it is going to take 3yrs then they are unlikely the answer as we do not have 3yrs.
I would have thought a year at most, people are generally happy betting on 2yo races by the end of the season

[Messenger]

This is at the bottom of HRV's home page
Aug 10, Aug 11, Aug 12 - what is that about
I am pretty sure the FastTrack racing is only on Wednesdays

[aussiebreno]

Brendan, I think your hatred of PP might be consuming you

If it is going to take 3yrs then they are unlikely the answer as we do not have 3yrs.
I would have thought a year at most, people are generally happy betting on 2yo races by the end of the season

Comment is aimed at anyone comparing. If HRV think a 3 week sample size of horses that have never/very minimally raced at 1200m before then they are incredibly simple too. It would also be incredibly simple if there was in increase for the 3 weeks as this could be based on a novelty effect. Its simple stats 101 that the sample size is insufficient.

Yes 1 year would be ok if there is enough of the races and enough diversity in horses competing in them.

This thread has been 5 years and no change. What difference does 3 years make if meaningful change can be achieved.

If a galloper had a pet distance of 1200m and stepped up to 2100m the form analyst comment would 100% mention the change of distance and punters would be weary. Why would they not be weary of a standardbred going from 2100m to 1200m and hold back on their bets accordingly?

[Messenger]

This thread has been 5 years and no change. What difference does 3 years make if meaningful change can be achieved.

Yes, it does not say much about our administrators. IMO if the participant bodies accept the Oct 1 prizemoney cuts then Victoria are going to see a mass exodus and are unlikely to recover

[Messenger]

The mid-week sprint trial at Melton, which will run for three weeks, drew turnover of more than $1.9 million across the six races, growth of 42 per cent on the preceding eight-week Wednesday average.

Pleasingly, there was also an increase in wagering service provider actives of 18 per cent compared to the previous eight-week average.

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/tab-fasttrack-1200-draws-wagering-growth-on-opening-night/

[aussiebreno]

The mid-week sprint trial at Melton, which will run for three weeks, drew turnover of more than $1.9 million across the six races, growth of 42 per cent on the preceding eight-week Wednesday average.

Pleasingly, there was also an increase in wagering service provider actives of 18 per cent compared to the previous eight-week average.

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/tab-fasttrack-1200-draws-wagering-growth-on-opening-night/

I stand by my comments re being so simple to compare. Huge potential its a boost from novelty affect and unsustainable. Hopefully this result means they press forward and we get a good sample size though before further conclusions can be drawn.

[aussiebreno]

1200m races causing such an uproar but we persist with a $50k featute race trot in prime time with 2 early race gallopers and then the only danger to the favourite/winner galloping on the turn. Absolute shambles. Trade every trotting race for a 1200m race. If we converted anybody on Wed night we just lost them then - race 2 Bendigo.

[Messenger]

1200m races causing such an uproar but we persist with a $50k featute race trot in prime time with 2 early race gallopers and then the only danger to the favourite/winner galloping on the turn. Absolute shambles. Trade every trotting race for a 1200m race. If we converted anybody on Wed night we just lost them then - race 2 Bendigo.

Brendan has logged off the forum, I hope he has gone to bed because the next two races are 2yo trots :D

Oh I really hope Brendan did not see the start of those two races

[aussiebreno]

Yep Pies hitting the front and 2yo trot races programmed it was definitely bedtime for me!

Rc3 was not much better than Rc2 either.

[Messenger]

I cannot see 1200m racing of average class horses creating much excitement and thus new fans.
In the main these horses are not good enough to put any pressure on the leaders and therefore these races are potential processions

6 races at Melton last Wednesday and 3 so far tonight - 7 leaders have won and the other 2 were won via the sprint lane by the horse on the leader's back

[Messenger]

The next two leaders won but the last of the 1200's was a good finish
12 races for 9 leaders winning

[Showgrounds]

The next two leaders won but the last of the 1200's was a good finish
12 races for 9 leaders winning

....and times nothing special. The fact that 400 metre splits have been run in slower than 30 seconds makes a mockery of the concept.

FAIL!

[Messenger]

R3 The 3yo Classic at Melton tonight is what is wrong with harness racing

Races like that win us ZERO fans/converts

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX190823#MXM19082306

[Messenger]

I know that the Stewards column is very descriptive but after missing last night's racing at Melton (Go Blues)
if it wasn't for a couple of protests to check out, I don't think I would need to watch the replays as they tell me what happened as one can see that there were very few positional changes

Maybe this is why people say our racing is boring

We need a more exciting product

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX080923

[aussiebreno]

A little over 48 hours out from what would be a general consensus 2x Top 5 horses in the state going head to head and we don't have Fixed Odds up.

You can say "greyhounds races are only 15 mins apart so they can run more and thats why they have upward trajectory on their TAB turnover" which is partly true, but the problem runs much deeper when we are obviously so insignificant 2 of the top 5 horses in the state racing in a Cup doesn't gain Fixed Odds 48hours out from the race.

[Messenger]

Just like the dogs, I would be surprised if 1% of the population could name you a current harness horse or dog.
But then it occurs to me that probably not much more than 1% of the population could name you a current galloper.
The gallops product is perceived to be better but I am not so sure.
Maybe like Brendan is suggesting, it is the favourable treatment they get from the betting agencies and media that puts them front and centre and seems to have cemented them at the top

Maybe lack of recognition of the participants is is why Sports Betting is so popular - I expect a ¼ of the population have a team and sport that they follow

[aussiebreno]

I do think the favourable treatment is a bit cause and effect though.

If I went to the local footy tomorrow I reckon a lot of blokes could name Mr Brightside and Alligator Blood unprompted and I'd be lucky to get 2 know who Act Now and RNR Who are even if prompted.

[Messenger]

25hrs until our Saturday night Metro meet at Melton and the TAB only has a market up for 2 races

[aussiebreno]

25hrs until our Saturday night Metro meet at Melton and the TAB only has a market up for 2 races

Rest assured you can get on Fixed Odds for a Maiden at Grafton on Tuesday!

Edit: or Horsham for your neck of the woods.

[Messenger]

We have 9 Trots races at Melton tomorrow night for $236k of prizemoney
and 12 Pacing races at Mildura for $75k of prizemoney

It will be interesting to see how they compare for turnover, although Sky1 for Melton would be a huge advantage

[Messenger]

The stats available by clicking on drivers or trainers have been a good addition

BUT they need a tweek. When a new year/season ticks over the 'current season' stats are pretty meaningless for some time

How about we show last season's until Feb (or longer) by which time everyone has had some time to get some form on the board

What brought this to my attention is that seeing Brian Kiesey and Brett Shipway train winners tonight, made me think that they have been going well of late so I click on their names to check this but the current stats are only for the last 5 days so they do not confirm/show what I was after

[gutwagon]

It's good for harness racing when Brian and Brett have winners, in my opinion.

[Messenger]

I was not sure where to put this
My roving reporter has told me that the carpark at Geelong was full before the first race last night
The Daschund Dash

I am not sure how I feel about concerts, fireworks, etc etc to pull a crowd. If they make 1 or 2 harness converts they would be justified - otherwise we are simply going into a different business. The plus side is that it gives genuine attendees something to watch in between races

[trish]

Back in the day when Vince Silvestro was fireworking around Harold park with his trusty horse , a lot of harness trainers hated the noise even though they were up the hill.
And my dad always was in a rush to get the horses off the show grounds before any fireworks started. Got caught out a few times & the horses went crazy.
Saw some dreadful accidents & horse deaths near where we lived with horses going through fences when the local school thought is was a good idea to put on fireworks in farm/horse country.

[Messenger]

Good to see this announcement from the CEO - I was starting to worry he was going to be a phantom

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/10-chances-to-win-4000-vouchers-at-melbournes-apg-sales/

10 vouchers will be drawn
Each voucher is worth $4000 to put towards the purchase of a horse
Two draws will take place – one lot of five before the first sale and another lot of five before lot 160
To win you must be registered and approved by APG and on-site at the time of the draw
The vouchers can go towards the purchase of any Vicbred horse during the sale

You would hope that to be fair, they will be doing the same thing for the Nutrien Sale

[Messenger]

and the marketing department marketing

[Messenger]

BUT I cannot believe that this banner has disappeared when CA is on the cusp with just 2 winners needed!

[Messenger]

https://harnesslink.com/australia/victorian-industry-in-crisis-kindred-bodies-launch-petition/

Victorian harness racing representative bodies say the sector is in crisis and are urging participants and stakeholders to throw their weight behind a petition calling for intervention from the Racing Minister Anthony Carbines.

The key issues among the bodies’ worries, and outlined in the petition are:

Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) recorded a loss of $6.7 million in 2023…after a loss of $4.1 million in 2022.

HRV received $28.1 million in State Government grant revenue in those two years.

In 2023, HRV had 103 full time employees costing $15.7 million…compared to HRNSW with 50 staff costing $7.1 million.

Employment costs at HRV have increased nearly 30 percent in the past two years.

Stakemoney in Victoria was cut by $3.9 million effective October 1, 2023…at the same time, WA, Qld, SA and NZ have all announced increases.
In 2022-23 the number of foals born in Victoria was down 13.3 percent on the previous year, and the number of mares served down 21.7 percent…in NSW foal numbers were up 1.2 percent and services up 1.3 percent.