Industry Indicators - Good, Bad & Ugly

[gutwagon]

I'm not disputing the quality of the facilities or how financial the club is at Cranbourne. HRV has indicated over and over again that only turnover matters, they are not interested in bums on seats so the population of the area is irrelevant in their eyes.
Any club that constantly fail to get full fields should have their meetings reduced.

Trevor that freeway has too many people using it and is constantly blocked, trainers have voted with their feet. Yes even Melton is hard to get to from many parts of the city but the horses are coming from the north and west and it's not to bad for them. I gave up going to Melton on Friday nights due to traffic.
The future of the sport is about people betting from home and pubs and clubs, or watching on their phones. The best thing for horses and trainers is to run the races where the horse population is. And that currently is North, West and central Victoria.
Seems a bit unfair to me to give them extra Sunday meetings and make the horses and trainers travel further , just adds extra costs to owners and drives more away.
If they continue down this path I can't see our industry surviving.

[Showgrounds]

I'm not disputing the quality of the facilities or how financial the club is at Cranbourne. HRV has indicated over and over again that only turnover matters, they are not interested in bums on seats so the population of the area is irrelevant in their eyes.
Any club that constantly fail to get full fields should have their meetings reduced.

Trevor that freeway has too many people using it and is constantly blocked, trainers have voted with their feet. Yes even Melton is hard to get to from many parts of the city but the horses are coming from the north and west and it's not to bad for them. I gave up going to Melton on Friday nights due to traffic.
The future of the sport is about people betting from home and pubs and clubs, or watching on their phones. The best thing for horses and trainers is to run the races where the horse population is. And that currently is North, West and central Victoria.
Seems a bit unfair to me to give them extra Sunday meetings and make the horses and trainers travel further , just adds extra costs to owners and drives more away.
If they continue down this path I can't see our industry surviving.

Sounds like we'll all be doomed then! I've got plenty of flies so perhaps we can legalize and televise betting on flies crawling up a wall. Can be done via Skype from any greasy kitchen in the world!

[gutwagon]

The problem is that there are plenty of other things to bet on ! All sports codes, horse and dog racing all over the world, elections even. The TAB wouldn't care if harness racing died in Australia in fact I think they are hoping it does !

[Messenger]

The problem is that there are plenty of other things to bet on ! All sports codes, horse and dog racing all over the world, elections even. The TAB wouldn't care if harness racing died in Australia in fact I think they are hoping it does !

Thus, why we have to get the public to care about harness racing

[gutwagon]

Thus, why we have to get the public to care about harness racing
And running races at Cranbourne with only 5 or 6 runners is not doing that !

[Messenger]

And running races at Cranbourne with only 5 or 6 runners is not doing that !

I don't think that having only 6 runners in a race determines if people care about harness racing Rick (I am talking more about promotion/media actually)
I would be happy for the Miracle Mile to have only 6 runners (those that settle in 7th and 8th position have no chance)

[gutwagon]

Look at this weeks Monday meeting at Shep - 12 races with 8 or more runners in every race. Will help the industry much more than last weeks Cranbourne snooze fest ! It seems I'm in the minority that think running meetings where the horses are located is a good idea !

[Messenger]

I don't think you are in the minority Rick
We do have horses in the east too - just not enough

[arlington]

Talking about Shepp today, it's going to be a wet first race in a few minutes.

If push came to shove Rick, I'd find it hard not to raise my hand or bring down my hand on the south east. But even being in the Shepp area, am prepared to see how the Sundays go.

[Beltane]

What Gutwagon wrote above about the tyranny of distance in Melbourne is replicated in Sydney with Menangle being a hard place to get to unless locally based thanks to the traffic congestion.

Menangle's attendance is sparse and the quote "The future of the sport is about people betting from home and pubs and clubs, or watching on their phones" is already here.

Recently visiting a country club, in their sports bar, I noted the Sky 1 and 2 big screens seemed unusually crisp and clear compared to the standard definition reception at home via Optus' Foxtel package for Sky Racing. And there it was in the top corner in tiny writing was "HD" for high definition.

And checking on Tabcorp's website "Sky Thoroughbred Central (FOXTEL channel 521) will commence broadcast of high definition Australian racing in time for Championships Day 1 at Royal Randwick this Saturday (1st April).... The high definition version of Sky Thoroughbred Central is available to FOXTEL customers with a HD subscription. Customers with a HD subscription will have immediate access to the HD version of the channel from April 1."

This high definition product looks very impressive, so there will be plenty of bums on seats watching and betting on the racing product, but just not at the track.

[Messenger]

Interesting, because I watched one race on Sky1 instead of Vision the other night and thought it looked better than usual but I just turned on Sky1 now and it looks ordinary
Did you mean April 1 Steve?
2018?
Ch528 Thoroughbred Central has been HD for yonks and makes Vic's racing.com look very ordinary

[gutwagon]

Sky has been very slow to roll out HD , they should have 4k by now ! They basically have a monopoly on the product so they aren't rushing to spend money on modern technology.

[gutwagon]

Another great Cranbourne meeting tonight, only 7 races all but one with less than 8 runners ! And all 7k races ! Just an opportunity wasted !

[Messenger]

Times are always slow at Cranbourne but I think small fields make it even worse
We had a 68.1 first half in R5

[Dot]

$300m upgrade for Caulfield


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/caulfield-racecourse-poised-to-undergo-300-million-transformation/news-story/a1fd010141c6c29ac77b7f2ee33b517a

TB trainers to be relocated to Cranbourne and Packenham which are likely to have in excess of 500 gallopers each in training.. How do we compete in the south east against the might of the TB industry?

[Showgrounds]

We should have been there 40 years ago, Dot, at Keysborough. Bernie Ahern and a flash Cadillac mobile barrier won the day and sent us to Moonee Valley.

[Galli]

Licence holders directory may make interesting reading next season... Seems every second hobby trainer I speak to is either hanging up the reins (incl yours truly) or at least thinking about it... Some people keep still renewing their licences whether they're training or not, however, so not totally trustworthy indicator.

[Messenger]

Interesting Kati, is it how difficult it is to pick up a cheque to make ends meet, when the big boys/girls are racing their horses at all levels?

[Galli]

Not really that Kev as they are entitled to race at all levels and all tracks just like everyone else. It's a combination of things.

It's the costs going up and prize money down (programming more and more $4,500 races), same with breeding costs (yup, I'm one of those with an empty broodmare on the paddock).

It's the two sets of rule books that still, after all complaints, appear from time to time. I have a good example of this: I nominated a mare to a mares race and put her in an other race in the same meeting as a second preference in case she didn't get into the mares race. When the noms were extended I knew she would get into the mares race, as a matter of fact there weren't enough noms for a full field in that race (9 if I remember correctly). The rules say that a mare will always get a start in a mares race if one is available (can't remember the exact wording) so, without thinking too much, I withdrew from the second preference. You can guess what happened next - I got a scratching penalty for a meeting I raced in! I called the Racing Office and they told me to call the Racing Mgr. I did and sent in an email questioning the penalty - waste of time. Yet, you see big trainers pulling out horses after they extend noms without any hassles at all...

I could go on... For 20 years I have been racing horses solely on their merits and celebrated every win knowing not every horse was running only on their training and ability. Now the stuff they are using, doesn't even swab... I feel like it's a choice of either join them or get out. I'm done.

[Dot]

Have to say Kati I do wonder why Vic doesn’t follow or at least try the WA system of nominations where there is no penalty for withdrawing during extended nominations and as a rule many trainers nominate for multiple races to try and ensure they get a run if not in their preferred race but in a race which I’m sure helps to keep field sizes up. Obviously the penalty for scratching in Vic is to discourage people from scratching from a particular race but no doubt the flow on effect is it discourages them from nominating as well, particularly when, like now, times are tough.

Paying a scratching fee for another race at a meeting you raced at is imo certainly wrong and guaranteed to disenfranchise
people but as to your claim that big trainers pull out horses after noms are extended without any hassles all the time well maybe the “big” trainers do, but this owner receives a scratching penalty fee every time.

[Messenger]

That is sad Kati. I definitely hear from many that they do not believe it is a level playing field.
Lately, I have even thought the cost of fuel would be a factor - I remember many years ago, going to the Royal Melbourne Dog Show and being surprised that the numbers had fallen away so badly and asking those there I was told that people cannot afford the fuel to travelling all over the country
We definitely have to address the breeding costs so that we are targeting those who need assistance

[Galli]

There are a lot of things that Victoria could learn from WA, Dot. I lived there for 11 years (and trained for 8 of them) and still keep comparing the two. I don't know how things have changed over there but, for example, just a simple thing of how the accounts work... In WA owner/trainer had one account and when you earned prize money, all costs were deducted from that account and then you either got paid or you got an invoice to pay. Over to Vic and you get a separate account for every horse you own/lease if your ownership group is different... Even if you are the managing owner for every one of them and the bank account details for all of them are the same. And then you get another account as a trainer and they can't even take the $5 trainer's fee (which didn't exist in WA ) from the money paid to you. Apparently it is impossible to combine everything - go figure how they managed to do that in WA over a decade ago! So, in the end you might get a statement which says you've been paid $X amount and in the same email another one which says you owe $5...

[Messenger]

Bendigo had a semaphore board last night. One of the timing trucks has returned so some but not all meets will have them (until April)

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/timing-truck-back-on-track-at-bendigo/

Nearly June and still no semaphore at Stawell today
It is pathetic - I cannot see how anybody can deny that this has been a major stuff up

[Galli]

Lately, I have even thought the cost of fuel would be a factor

Yes, most definitely. You weigh the costs against your chance of earning in any particular race eg. company & barrier and scratch if it doesn't make sense.


We definitely have to address the breeding costs so that we are targeting those who need assistance

Too late.

[Dot]

The “paperwork” side of things has never been my thing Kati but having been a participant in a number of states I have wondered about the differences between them and if there was a way to improve them. Those states that pay hobbyist owner/drivers a driving fee for driving their own horse then sending a bill to get it back plus GST is something I could never get my head around. Still Kati I think there must be more to your deciding to leave the industry then some errant paperwork.

No doubt all states could learn something from in each other, Sadly I think WA is about to learn a big one from Victoria about living beyond your means.

[Galli]

Just thinking there are things that could be simplified saving time and money, Dot. It still irritates me that they keep charging gst on the super portion of the drivers fee in VIC. It's not a lot of money but it all adds up and, in the end, it is against the law and money that benefits no one in the industry. Owners loss, again.

The reason I'm leaving is simple: it's impossible to even break even breeding and training your own horses anymore. Time to find another hobby. Might even get a share in a galloper.

[Messenger]

I guess it comes down to how passionate one is about their hobby and whether they can justify the expense
The same can apply to a golfer. If you are no longer enjoying something there are zillions of other options
I imagine for someone who trains and drives his/her own horses (which they may have bred themselves) and have a property it is somewhat cheaper and if they have a love of horses it is simply the lifestyle they choose and love

[Galli]

The same can apply to a golfer.

Only if that golfer is serious enough to play tournaments. How would the golfer feel if he was given different rules to play and some of the other golfers had a little bird carrying the ball a couple of hundred yards further than the rest?

[Dot]

Is it a reasonable expectation though Kati to “break even”, even with horses you breed and train yourself? The reality is and always has been that the costs of breeding and racing far exceeds the levels of prizemoney available. It’s not possible for everyone to profit or even break even from their participation in racing, for those who do break even or profit there has to have been someone who has lost on their investment/involvement in the industry or there would be no industry.

I think everyone has to go through the highs and lows of racing just not all in the same fashion. As Kev said it comes down to the level of passion for a hobby and whether we can justify the expense. If you’ve lost your passion and can’t justify the expense so be it, plenty of other hobbies out there, nearly all of which won’t “break even” on investment either.

If your leaving because you don’t think it’s a level playing field that’s a different story.

[Galli]

Oh dear. I thought you'd be able to read between the lines... I should have been talking about the wins, not the money as let's face it - there is none.

Those wins and that great feeling when your horse crosses the line first are getting impossible to achieve because the other golfers on the course have got those little birds carrying their balls and are allowed to hit out of bounds without getting a penalty.

I used to be able to get enough success to cover my small costs (yes, own property etc.). I guess I was just lucky then.

[Messenger]

Is it sensible to have races scheduled before 12.30? (especially on a Sunday)
The TAB holdings on the first 3 at Cobram today were pretty weak

You have to laugh at the effect that a small First 4 Jackpot has on the pools for the following race
The First 4 for R6 had a pool < $5k and there was a jackpot of $3,400 or $1,700 (I never know whether to halve it) and as a consequence the First 4 pool for R7 was $24,500

[Dot]

What time does it get dark there now Kev? Can’t see any light towers at Cobram so presume it’s an unlit track. Turnover is important of course but some of these Sunday meetings are genuine community meetings and this is one of them, charity fundraiser for the McGrath Foundation so I think oncourse stuff today takes precedence over wagering.

I’m no punter, isn’t a jackpot into the first four pool a good thing?

[Galli]

From the connections point of view those meetings are brilliant, especially this time of year! Nice day at the trots for the whole family and you get home while it's still daylight. Our Kyabram Cup meeting was a twilight meeting (what a joke - first race at 5:19pm). Full program of 11 races (and full fields too) - last race around 11pm. Sunday night. Much would prefer a day meeting for a cup day.

[Messenger]

What I am laughing about Dot is that for a jackpot (free money) of as little as $2k the First 4 pool will go from $5k to $25k in the next
That is the equivalent of a Powerball prize of $3m being advertised as $4m and instead going to over $20m - it would not happen
But for some reason (the supposed pros - it has to be them for that weight of money) go ga-ga for a tiny jackpot

ps a 12.15 start and 25min between races would have been the go or just 8 races for a community meeting

[Dot]

But that is a good thing isn’t it Kev??

With thanks to today’s harness racing update:

https://harnessracingupdate.com/2019/05/26/the-v75-the-lifeblood-of-swedish-harness-racing/


“HRU’s European correspondent Thomas Hedlund said Sweden’s V75 bet is the single biggest reason harness racing has been thriving in his country since the jackpot-style wager was launched more than 25 years ago.


As U.S.-born, Swedish-based trainer Jerry Riordan said, making the V75 available in family-friend areas such as grocery stores and gas stations — as opposed to bars that operate betting shops in France — creates great acceptance and exposure for the sport throughout Sweden at a young age. Harness racing is, surprisingly, a younger person’s game in Sweden compared to North America.

Even more exposure for the sport is achieved through live broadcasts of all V75 races on a Swedish national TV channel.

What’s most appealing about the bet is the potential for large jackpots. The payout record for the V75 is a life-changing 67.3 million Swedish Crowns (approximately $6.73 million U.S. dollars).

Think of it as a lottery asking people to handicap races rather than pick numbers. Instead of watching bouncing ping pong balls get selected out of a hopper, people watch horses race.


As to why other countries don’t follow Sweden’s lead and adopt the V75, Hedlund shook his head.

“I don’t know. I really don’t know. They should see and learn,” Hedlund said.“



If such a small jackpot grows our first fours as exponentially as you say it does Kev I don’t know why we don’t have the V75 either.........

[Galli]

Sweden is not the only country to have V75 (typical of them to claim so...). My native Finland has it well (and the industry is going even worse than over here...

[Messenger]

But that is a good thing isn’t it Kev??


Of course it is a good thing but I simply added it to point out that I find it humorous

[Dot]

Sweden is not the only country to have V75 (typical of them to claim so...). My native Finland has it well (and the industry is going even worse than over here...

So are you talking about funding, administration or “golf” in Finland?

[Galli]

SARCASM: Making the world a better place one insult at a time.

[Messenger]

So are you talking about funding, administration or “golf” in Finland?

What has golf got to do with it Dot?
Ah I have just re-read post 280 and see that you are just being cute

[Messenger]

There is a semaphore board at Ararat tonight - that has to be promising

[Messenger]

Another great Cranbourne meeting tonight, only 7 races all but one with less than 8 runners ! And all 7k races ! Just an opportunity wasted !

9 races at Ballarat tomorrow night and only 62 runners with possibly more scratchings to come = an average of < 7 per race

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA310519

[Dot]

Trot Stats
@TrotStats
·
May 27
The regular tracks in Vic with ave field sizes under 8 are Swan Hill (lowest at 6.9) then 5 that follow a geographic pattern around Melbourne - Warragul, Cranbourne, Yarra Valley, Geelong and Ballarat. Too many meetings programmed in this region?

[Dot]

Barry Collier
@bcolsyd
·
May 27
Replying to
@TrotStats
Need to programme meetings where the horse population is trained now and not where they were trained 30 years ago. It’s not hard

[Dot]

Ballarat excluded from the horse population decline, a more unique set of circumstances there I would think.

[arlington]

Is it sensible to have races scheduled before 12.30? (especially on a Sunday)
The TAB holdings on the first 3 at Cobram today were pretty weak

You have to laugh at the effect that a small First 4 Jackpot has on the pools for the following race
The First 4 for R6 had a pool < $5k and there was a jackpot of $3,400 or $1,700 (I never know whether to halve it) and as a consequence the First 4 pool for R7 was $24,500


Take a look at the Cobram Harness Facebook page Kev https://www.facebook.com/CobramHarnessRacingClub/ You'll get an idea of how big a day it has become and why a big day should have a big race card.
We often say how much the industry is driven by turnover at the expense of involvement and participation.
On the business side of it, the two pre midday races were $4500 events so there was a bit of business as usual from HRV whilst supporting the day.
The lady drivers, along with so many others, are rushing around getting involved with activities throughout the day so 25 min gaps on this day wouldn't be appropriate.

[Dot]

And sadly it seems as someone at HRV has seen fit to now completely undermine all the good work by moving the meeting to a Monday next year


“Daniel Hibberd
@stumpjumpa
Absolutely brilliant day yesterday at
@cobramtrots
for Pink Day. A great crowd & good racing-superb effort from all. My only gripe now is that after such great days over the last 2 seasons we have lost the Sunday meeting and have Pink Day scheduled for a Monday. Disappointing.”

Time for David Martin to step in and show some leadership

[Messenger]

Trot Stats
@TrotStats
·
May 27
The regular tracks in Vic with ave field sizes under 8 are Swan Hill (lowest at 6.9) then 5 that follow a geographic pattern around Melbourne - Warragul, Cranbourne, Yarra Valley, Geelong and Ballarat. Too many meetings programmed in this region?
It is only an hour from Ballarat to Melton so you wouldn't think this would be the reason unless you include Melton in 'this region'

[Messenger]

Take a look at the Cobram Harness Facebook page Kev https://www.facebook.com/CobramHarnessRacingClub/ You'll get an idea of how big a day it has become and why a big day should have a big race card.
We often say how much the industry is driven by turnover at the expense of involvement and participation.
On the business side of it, the two pre midday races were $4500 events so there was a bit of business as usual from HRV whilst supporting the day.
The lady drivers, along with so many others, are rushing around getting involved with activities throughout the day so 25 min gaps on this day wouldn't be appropriate.

I did not realize it was such a big event Wayne. I should have

[Dot]

Provincial Gallops clubs in NSW with million dollar races now

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/news/latest-racing-news/1-million-races-for-newcastle-kembla-with-standalone-saturdays/?main=true

[Messenger]

Amazing Dot
When ownership syndication is touted as a solution to our woes
Why would you buy a share in a harness horse instead of a galloper?
Sure the share in the galloper would be much smaller but the prizes are so much more
In comparison Harness is like a Lotto draw without a Division 1 prize

You would have to love our code or the hospitality - which is why I think these are 2 things we have to sell to the public (and deliver)

[Dot]

Believe it or not Kev there are opportunities in our code that don’t exist in TB racing but the opportunity to win Lotto style returns on a small investment is certainly not one of them!

Don’t think this one is too likely to filter down to small share syndicate holders but another $2m on offer in gallops bonuses.

https://www.thevalley.com.au/news/2019-06-04/moonee-valley-racing-club-launches-ladbrokes-cox-plate-international-bonus

[Dot]

$24 million for SA racing in the upcoming budget announced, for infrastructure apparently. No word on distribution between codes

[Messenger]

I received an email about this and could have put it in the 'Goodnight Harness Racing SA' thread or the 2yo thread but I thought it belonged here as it is simply Bad for SA harness racing

Last night Emma Stewart won SAs $100k Allwood Gp1 for 2yo's at $1.10 and 2nd and 3rd also went to Vic based horses - their take is 82.5% of the stakes plus all three of the free services. How can anyone think this is a good thing for SA racing. These horses were just shipped over for the heats and are therefore contributing very little to SA harness racing economy.

I think SA shouldn't worry about having a Gp1 but rather think of how they can help the locals survive. I think it would be far better for SA if all of a horses SA starts earnt points towards making the final. A completely different approach would be to forget the heats and have two $60k races - one for horses that have had a minimum three SA starts for a local trainer and one Open to all 2yo's

ps Emma obviously used a 3 horse float to go over, won a $7k and $4k races as well at money back

[Bonnie]

I received an email about this and could have put it in the 'Goodnight Harness Racing SA' thread or the 2yo thread but I thought it belonged here as it is simply Bad for SA harness racing

Last night Emma Stewart won SAs $100k Allwood Gp1 for 2yo's at $1.10 and 2nd and 3rd also went to Vic based horses - their take is 82.5% of the stakes plus all three of the free services. How can anyone think this is a good thing for SA racing. These horses were just shipped over for the heats and are therefore contributing very little to SA harness racing economy.

I think SA shouldn't worry about having a Gp1 but rather think of how they can help the locals survive. I think it would be far better for SA if all of a horses SA starts earnt points towards making the final. A completely different approach would be to forget the heats and have two $60k races - one for horses that have had a minimum three SA starts for a local trainer and one Open to all 2yo's

ps Emma obviously used a 3 horse float to go over, won a $7k and $4k races as well at money back

I can accept your comments re SA Harness Racing Kev , but the Allwood Gr1 race is exclusively for yearlings purchased at the 2018 SA Yearling Sale.Everyone has the opportunity to purchase a yearling and therefore contest the race if conditions are met. ( similar in context to the APG Sale and race ) The winner was a $25,000 purchase from that sale and was given to Emma Stewart to train.
Race conditions are set at the time of the sale.
As for the other starters from that stable: when travelling horses ( particularly 2 year olds ) it’s always best practice to take a travelling companion with them .

[Messenger]

You don't need to defend the Stewart stable Anne - they have done what you would expect a smart stable to do. Like my emailer, I just think SA needs to think of ways to keep some money/free services in SA

[Dot]

I don’t think anyone can be critical of the cross border participants, theyve just done what I think most people would expect them to, as they did with the Southern Cross races, and a number of the other higher value races in SA. Whilst some border hopping is good for increasing interest and turnover (if they don’t start at money back!) in SA seeing large amounts of prizemoney regardless if it is from distribution or participant contributions or sponsorship leaving the state is not good. The challenge for SA administrators is designing programming and race conditions and prizemoney distribution that increase benefits to the local participants though preferably not discouraging border hoppers altogether.

It’s not quite true Anne that anyone can purchase a horse and compete, like the APG their are non sale entries which are not available to purchase to anyone, which in both instances not everyone considers that fair. Similarly whilst price is not a direct correlation to prospects of success the spread of quality of yearlings and price at both sales is such that not everyone can buy a yearling with similar prospects of success. Or place their yearling with the country’s statistically most successful stable

Like the Pacing Gold if the majority of participants don’t feel they have a reasonable chance of success in the race then they will certainly not continue to pay fees to participate and perhaps be discouraged from purchasing a yearling altogether. And that’s not just a problem in the end for the sales races but the industry altogether.

[Messenger]

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/big-bets-chapter-delivers-happy-ending/

Big Bets story from this week indicates how the tote turnover cannot be used as a guide to turnover

The big bet of the week was $30k on R9 on Sunday night at Shep June 9

The Vic TAB only held $6k in the win pool

[gutwagon]

That story claims it was bet on the TAB Kevin, I don't think the tote pools include fixed odds pools. Does anyone know if they do ?

[Messenger]

I should have read the title Rick
You would have to assume that tote pools do not include fixed
It is somewhat hard to believe that they would take a $30k bet on Sunday night trots at Shep
Maybe they are gutsier than we think - $1.65 would seem to be pretty short for a 14 start 3yo maiden however

Is HRV still be stitched up every time someone bets Fixed rather than tote?

[Dot]

Your not suggesting something untoward is more likely to happen on a Sunday night trot at Shep then elsewhere are you Kev?

They aren’t adverse to taking large bets, their adverse to taking bets from winning punters. The punter who had this on probably has a losing overall “digital” profile, or possibly placed the bet at a bricks and mortar TAB so no digital profile to refer to.

Been no change as far as I know to HRVs share of fixed rather then parimutuel wagering.

[Messenger]

Not thinking untoward just that I didn't think they would take too many $30k Sunday night bets on the trots
They're not going to take a $30k bet at a bricks and mortar TAB in cash are they? I would think money-laundering checks would prevent that - so I think your 'non winner account holder' is the likely scenario

[Dot]

Don’t know Kev if money laundering laws prevent large bets ( though no doubt they do discourage them) or just require the customers details and the transaction to be reported.

[Mighty Atom]

Glenn Douglass, Emma Stewart (Code Black) fair dinkum you lot in Victoria are not on a level playing field when Emma Stewart rolls up the rest of the field may as well go home. Vic harness racing has now become the most boring predictable in Australia.

[Messenger]

Glenn Douglass, Emma Stewart (Code Black) fair dinkum you lot in Victoria are not on a level playing field when Emma Stewart rolls up the rest of the field may as well go home. Vic harness racing has now become the most boring predictable in Australia.

I think a lot of the mile racing at Menangle might be just as boring Rod

[Galli]

Vic harness racing has now become the most boring predictable in Australia.

Agree. Yawn.

[Messenger]

Yabby Dams/Pat Driscoll scaling back his harness team (frustrated with the industry) and getting into thoroughbreds IS NOT A GOOD SIGN

https://www.hrnz.co.nz/news/yabby-dams-scaling-back/

[gutwagon]

Would be interesting to know what changes Pat Driscoll wanted made and what ideas he has.

[Messenger]

Would be interesting to know what changes Pat Driscoll wanted made and what ideas he has.

One rumour I have heard is that HRV did not provide the assistance with syndication that it said it would

[Dot]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/sport/racing/victorian-spring-carnival-purse-up-to-100-million-for-first-time-20190711-p52678.html

Prizemoney increases for Spring Carnival

( despite Amanda Elliot calling Peter V’Landys a “silly little man” for increasing prizemoney in NSW! )

[Dot]

Meanwhile in the harness industry.......


Llewellyn Park
@llewellyn_park
Rob so true well Said, if our biggest asset the broodmare does not have a value the hope for our industry sadly is slim. To bring Lazarus in at that price they are not looking at where the industry is at
Quote Tweet

ROB WATSON
@thetrotter13
· Jul 14
Replying to @brian_kiesey and @bradwmc
Can’t even give mares away now. Today’s mares that were passed in didn’t even attract bids , and I wonder why someone like club Menangle buys Lazarus and wants to charge 10k for a service fee and thinks they are doing the industry a favour


ROB WATSON
@thetrotter13
·
Jul 14
Replying to
@bradwmc
and
@brian_kiesey
The problem is there will be no horses to buy in 10 years , if things keep going the way they are the industry just can not survive , the rate of drop off is alarming

[Messenger]

Interesting/alarming stuff.
You should be our twitter reporter Dot

[Dot]

I think our biggest crisis is in the breeding sector Kev. You can change many things in the industry with the stroke of a pen and an injection of funds but you can not change that the barest minimum to produce a horse to race is 3 years, and then only if there are broodmares to do so with.

[gutwagon]

I think administrators need to address this issue immediately or there will be no horses to race in 10 years time. No use arguing about field sizes, amount of races, Sky coverage, integrity or drivers colours. You need to act 3 years ahead to keep the supply of horses going. They don't seem to understand that for the next 3 years at least, the pool of horses old enough to race will decline. Any action taken now will take at least 3 years to have an effect.
With the lack of action in this area I am starting to wonder if the government is trying to shut the industry down.


In future years we will need to let older horses keep racing and allow horses to race twice in one day !

[Messenger]

An email I received made me ponder how much of the disillusionment - decision not to breed, has to do with people not believing the racing is fair and therefore Integrity is a close second on our biggest crises list

[arlington]

An email I received made me ponder how much of the disillusionment - decision not to breed, has to do with people not believing the racing is fair and therefore Integrity is a close second on our biggest crises list


Hmmm the chicken or the egg. Hmmm the recent Shepparton sale.

[Dot]

“Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
An email I received made me ponder how much of the disillusionment - decision not to breed, has to do with people not believing the racing is fair and therefore Integrity is a close second on our biggest crises list

Hmmm the chicken or the egg. Hmmm the recent Shepparton sale.”

In the words of Pauline Hanson “ploise explain” ?

[Dot]

An email I received made me ponder how much of the disillusionment - decision not to breed, has to do with people not believing the racing is fair and therefore Integrity is a close second on our biggest crises list

Maybe a lot, maybe a little, domination of a limited number of sires at the sales and on the track also serves to discourage people from breeding if they can’t go to one of those sires, or limit the number of mares they breed so they can. Racing opportunities ( additional but seperate to integrity concerns with racing) with regard to handicapping but more so programming impacts on people who breed there own to race, and drought conditions all impact on breeding numbers.

At the current time it appears there are in Vic significant numbers of people with concerns about integrity. Demand and success for those limited numbers of sires continues unabated with no programs or incentives in sight to encourage breeding to wider range of sires, or at all in fact. New handicapping and programming system introduced which is likely to still have teething problems and not see some horses racing at the appropriate rating and some people experienceing difficulty finding suitable racing opportunities extending into the breeding season and drought conditions and high feed prices can all be expected to continue to feed into an increasingly rapid decline in breeding numbers in the season just ahead.

Perfect storm really when we desperately need an increasing number of horses racing to improve field sizes and numbers of races to build our market share and ensure our funding under the joint venture.

An exodus of horses over four and under 70 ratings points to NSW early in the new year won’t help there either.

Racing horses so as they remain under 70 ratings points won’t do much for integrity either

[Messenger]

Your post below from the Stallion Bonus thread which supported another poster's idea:

[Little doubt that many breeders, particularly with the drought conditions in Victoria, are very price sensitive and a suitable sire offered free could attract a very large book. The precedent has been set, the connections of Mr Feelgood very generously offered him at no service fee several seasons ago, no doubt that was the season he covered 347 mares, 140 mares more then in his next best season ( where he was still offered at a reduced but not free service fee) and over 200 more then in any other season.

I imagine a free quality sire would certainly attract some mares that would not have otherwise been bred and some from stallions that breeders would have paid a service fee too. Presumably leasing a sire would not be a single season occurrence but would rotate through a roster of suitable sires from year to year so sharing around the benefits and burdens.

Needs to happen this season as we know how very long even this will take to bear results

[Dot]

Yes it does, there can not be that many untried or retired horses left to be drawn out of the paddock and back into the racing pool. Even if the ratings system is an outstanding success it will only extend horse careers, a horse may have have a 100 starts instead of 40 but that will only delay a horses retirement not prevent it. It means there will be a lag in retiring horses that can be filled with the reduced number of horse bred in the last couple of years, but then the retirement rate will increase again to what it was and there won’t be the horses to maintain the population much less grow it.

[Messenger]

We have to do better on the HRV home page

https://www.thetrots.com.au/

It is Wednesday
Of the 5 rotating feature stories
1 is for Ballarat last Friday
1 is for Melton last Saturday
1 is for Drive of the Night which closed on Monday

[Adaptor]

We have to do better on the HRV home page

https://www.thetrots.com.au/

It is Wednesday
Of the 5 rotating feature stories
1 is for Ballarat last Friday
1 is for Melton last Saturday
1 is for Drive of the Night which closed on Monday

Michael Howard is on leave until August 5 which may explain the backlog.

[gutwagon]

Michael Howard is on leave until August 5 which may explain the backlog.
It's always old news on there.

[Messenger]

At the start of the year we were without semaphore boards, we got one back in April? and I assumed we were back on track but 7 months later there was not one at Hamilton yesterday - is this the same old problem or a knew one ?!

[gutwagon]

The racing minister Martin Pacula has called Harness Racing the "red hots". Surely he can't keep his job after that !

Waiting for a comment from David Martin.

[Messenger]

We would love a source Rick.
(Maybe he was watching G Douglas get a double last night)

Edit - have been emailed that it was on twitter (and he has apologized)

[gutwagon]

Apology has not been accepted on Twitter that's for sure.

[arlington]

A special edition of Tooth Be Told as Paul Campbell sits with some of the first ladies of Victorian harness racing - Roma Pocock, Leonne Collins and Deb Quinlan (nee Turner) - to talk their lives in the trots.

https://soundcloud.com/hrv-2/tooth-be-told-roma-pocock-leonne-collins-and-deb-quinlan?fbclid=IwAR2p7YLes-ByXJo0hK83GWEkkPF5jq49HLGp6YFDs7c9dyUocl87hL5K1ls

One of the top Tooth Be Told episodes and I reckon as part of Mr Pakula's penance, he should invite these three ladies in for lunch and a chat. Particularly their thoughts from the 1:01:46 mark. I'm sure they'd go hard at him, just as they did when they drove. Wonderful ladies, move over Jana, the original perfumed steamrollers.

[gutwagon]

Mr Pakulas comments on harness racing clearly show that he thinks the industry still has integrity problems. Why doesn't he replace Mr Monteith and Mr Martin if he thinks they aren't getting the job done ?

[Messenger]

Is that based on his 'Red Hots' tweet Rick?

[gutwagon]

Yes, he said it jokingly, was complaining about not backing any winners at the gallops and he might have to have a bet at the red hots.

[arlington]

Mr Pakulas comments on harness racing clearly show that he thinks the industry still has integrity problems. Why doesn't he replace Mr Monteith and Mr Martin if he thinks they aren't getting the job done ?

Interesting spin on it Rick.

Mr Pakula should have more faith in the new Vic Racing Tribunal and amendments to the Act.

As far as integrity and Mr Pakula goes, he also being the Attorney General, VCAT could have viewed the industry as, for example, QCAT does. Other Civil and Administrative Tribunals believe the sport is bigger than the individual, not so VCAT.

[gutwagon]

Wayne, he got the boot from Attorney General after the red shirts affair. He refused to co operate with police as did all other Labor politicians involved.

[arlington]

Wayne, he got the boot from Attorney General after the red shirts affair. He refused to co operate with police as did all other Labor politicians involved.

Of course.
Notwithstanding the red shirts affair, we'll have to rely on Jill and Martin to promote the sport is bigger than the individual.

[gutwagon]

990991

[Messenger]

I can't say that it worried me. I know the meaning of red hots is not complimentary and that he is the Minister and that it has clearly upset many but in the above context I see it as jocular and no more than a slip of the tongue. I cannot think that anybody could claim that he meant to offend

[Showgrounds]

The offence industry is totally out of control if you are offended by that! Thanks for the post Gutwagon.

[arlington]

No more than a Freudian slip of the tongue...I wonder if he followed the tip...the candyman beaten a head by G Douglas. :(

[gutwagon]

Not much offends me but the fact that the racing minister thinks our industry is red hot really pissed me off.
I have not seen any comment from Martin or Monteith, they must feel as if they are wasting their time trying to push integrity !

[arlington]

Not quite sure how M Pakula coming out with that, whichever way he did, gets to ...Martin or Monteith, they must feel as if they are wasting their time trying to push integrity !

Am thinking they might have a quiet, smart, diplomatic conversation to M Pakula.

[Messenger]

The HRNSW 2019 Industry Breeding Report can be found here

https://www.hrnsw.com.au/hrnsw/document-library/breeding-report

It contains many Australia wide and NZ figures too
It is lengthy but well presented and easy reading
If you are invested in the industry it really should be a must read

The comments try to be positive where they can but the raw figures decline is pretty depressing (not that we didn't already know this)

[Messenger]

You will find a thread in the Breeding forum where Alabar's Alan Galloway is forecasting doom in a few years due to the rise in frozen semen

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?14305-Frozen-semen-threatens-to-collapse-the-industry-within-a-few-years.-Alan-Galloway

[Messenger]

I had a look at tonights Vic TAB pools (to compare to last night's Kilmore Cup)
It is no doubt a sub standard meet to be putting on at headquarters (Long weekend or no long weekend)
But what is going on tonight - the win pools are pathetic
14k
13k
7k
5k
4k
4k
7k
5k

[aussiebreno]

I had a look at tonights Vic TAB pools (to compare to last night's Kilmore Cup)
It is no doubt a sub standard meet to be putting on at headquarters (Long weekend or no long weekend)
But what is going on tonight - the win pools are pathetic
14k
13k
7k
5k
4k
4k
7k
5k

The 2 $4k races Stewarts had runners, clearly detrimental to the industry and should be banned from having runners ;) :p

[Messenger]

The 2 $4k races Stewarts had runners, clearly detrimental to the industry and should be banned from having runners ;) :p
:D

[gutwagon]

There were no Stewart runners in the 4k races , Ha Ha !

[aussiebreno]

There were no Stewart runners in the 4k races , Ha Ha !

Win pool not stakesmoney.

[Messenger]

It would be nice if Terang could attract more starters

[Messenger]

39 horses constituted a meeting at Terang tonight (only 6 races = av field size 6.5)

[Messenger]

Are we seeing a decline in the West?
Only 6 races at Horsham today (47 horses)

[Messenger]

WA encouraging people to breed (horses ;)) this season
With a huge increase in 2yo Westbred Classics

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=41648

[Messenger]

News from HRV Chairman Dale Monteith

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/annual-report-hrv-announces-profit/

This link covers:

Annual Report

Communication

Meeting with the Minister for Racing, the Hon. Martin Pakula
(and the impact of the current JV agreement)

National Ratings System

HRV Board Appointments (process)

CEO Appointment (process)

Land development at Melton

RISE sale

Elizabeth Clarke’s departure

ps HRA is worse than the forum - nothing some days then 12 stories on the one day
http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/top-stories/#lead

[Messenger]

One of our respected posters has been working their way through the HRV Annual Report
Some of their observations in point form:


TAB income continues to drop away. Down $2.4m but somewhat offset by the increase in 'racefield fees'(corps) and the share of POC tax.

No statement of what the Inter cost but 'grants' up to $6m (from $2.2m) which would probably be what the Govt tipped in to finance it. Marketing, etc costs up because of inter.

Legal fees down ��������

Swabs costs UP by a decent %. How?? They did heaps less last season. Maybe they were not testing swabs taken before? No way could be up that much based on the number of swabs done last year

Salaries up 12% but number of employees seems to have remained constant. 12% seems a huge rise. Maybe all new the 'integrity' people?

Breeders crown payments down by 20%+

Overall they have done a good job to put on the Inter and show a profit. They state that prizemoney paid is up but the addition of the Inter would have been a big factor there. It didn't go backwards so you could give it a pass

ps They are going to announce the new CEO at the Rothacker Medal but everyone already knows it is Dayle Brown

[Messenger]

Just when Trotguide is singing the praises of the new NR system in reducing long odds on favourites, we have two $1.10 and one $1.20 at Melton last night

[Messenger]

Rothacker Medal Night. I have been told that the Racing Minister did the same as last year - walked in, made his speech and left soon after.
He had been at Phillip Island for the bike Grand Prix all day though so he was probably tired. Minister for Racing must include motor bikes?!
He doesn't seem to care a lot for the trots and it's people

[Mytwobobsworth]

I’m not a fan of the bloke Kev but I think he is also some sort of sports minister now.
Was doing such a great job with racing you can see why you would want him involved with other sports.
Lawn bowls will be on its knees soon.

[Messenger]

Melbourne Cup Day at Yarra Valley is probably our biggest attended event of the year with 5000 people out there.

"It's just a wonderful day with all the things you would expect at a Flemington event. The Fashions on the Field and the racing and the big screens, there are just no queues - that's the beauty about it."

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/big-green-yarra-valley-race-card-to-entertain-the-thousands/

The problem is that they are not there for the trots :( Hopefully the grass races will have a few more even watch a race

[Messenger]

Too often our webpage managers are FAILING US

Have a look at HRA's home page right now!
It is late on November 6
2 of the 3 rotating Featured news stories are previews for the Gloucester Park meet run 5 days ago on Nov 1

This is a waste of the homepage and total neglect of duties
(if you click on news you will see they have more recent stories that they could be highlighting)

[Messenger]

On the back page of The Age today
Peter Ryan makes the following point

When I fell in love with the sport, most races were bet upon and shown at the TAB, the weekend punter making his trip to the TAB before listening to the nags on the radio at home.
Now, racing is broadcast constantly, bets can be laid on phones easily and the advertising is so thick and constant that a perfectly reasonable response from a parent is to shield their children from betting ...

No doubt the perks we enjoy nowadays are not all bad but his point about advertising is IMO a valid one

[gutwagon]

The "Herald Sun" often has 5 or 6 full pages of punting ads, you wonder how they can afford it !

[aussiebreno]

On the back page of The Age today
Peter Ryan makes the following point

When I fell in love with the sport, most races were bet upon and shown at the TAB, the weekend punter making his trip to the TAB before listening to the nags on the radio at home.
Now, racing is broadcast constantly, bets can be laid on phones easily and the advertising is so thick and constant that a perfectly reasonable response from a parent is to shield their children from betting ...

No doubt the perks we enjoy nowadays are not all bad but his point about advertising is IMO a valid one

What's his point mean though?

[Messenger]

I think he is suggesting that betting overkill could be making betting, even racing, something that parents tell their children is bad

[aussiebreno]

I think he is suggesting that betting overkill could be making betting, even racing, something that parents tell their children is bad
Well the children ain't listening.

https://www.savings.com.au/savings-accounts/gambling-statistics-australia/

Fiona Guthries quote telling.

[Messenger]

I guess we won't really know until the children of the last few years get older and if there was a decline in the number of punters as a % of population we still wouldn't know if overkill had anything to do with it

[Messenger]

Only 2 heats per night for the pacers and trotters says something IMO
I was thinking that $30kNZ ($28kAUS) was not much more than they race for at Menangle but not being a NSW follower I thought I would check - it seems as though NSW has caught the VIC bug with plenty of races of varying (lower) prizemoney

Mind you every Tuesday race is for $9,180 unlike in Vic where some of ours are for HALF this

[Messenger]

I got to thinking while I was watching a Western the other day, about how I grew up with the advent of Television and how Westerns used to be such a major genre.
Horses were a vital part of Westerns IMO. It made me wonder whether my appreciation of horses could in some way have been influenced by Westerns (and no doubt The Showgrounds)
I probably shouldn't put Showgrounds in brackets because for even those who did not attend the trots, The Show was a lot more about animals - horses etc in the old days

I am approaching mid 60's and I can remember horses being in our outer Melbourne suburb - I can ever remember the milky used to deliver bottled milk in the morning with the draught horse pulling the cart, the star of the show
Animal circuses with plenty of horses were even common place, the reserve on the corner of our road would host a couple a year in the early years of my life
People older than me would have had far more exposure to horses even in the Metro area, my grandfather used a horse drawn cart in his job doing road repairs in South Melbourne!

Anyway, I was thinking that the lack of horses (screen or otherwise) in the lives of younger generations and figured that in some small way it has probably played a part in the decline in racing
Racing marketing is a lot more about betting than the animals nowadays and maybe it has to be as the younger generations are not that attracted to horses.
Before anyone says it, I know some would say they are but do not believe in the racing concept

We all know that the multitude of entertainment alternatives since Showgrounds days is a bigger factor but that Western just got me thinking (unusual ;))

[Mighty Atom]

Disgusting. One of Australia's biggest four year old races The Golden Nugget and not a mention of it anywhere. An exciting race, fast time and yet not a mention.
It is not hard to understand where my beliefs on where harness racing is heading.

[Messenger]

Disgusting. One of Australia's biggest four year old races The Golden Nugget and not a mention of it anywhere. An exciting race, fast time and yet not a mention.
It is not hard to understand where my beliefs on where harness racing is heading.

For those that missed it

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=GP131219#GPM13121902

[Showgrounds]

Disgusting. One of Australia's biggest four year old races The Golden Nugget and not a mention of it anywhere. An exciting race, fast time and yet not a mention.
It is not hard to understand where my beliefs on where harness racing is heading.

Agree entirely Rod, perhaps it was a victim of race programming as it was on the same weekend as the Inter-Dominions. Lack of media coverage was in stark contrast to the inaugural Golden Nugget in January 1981, one of the greatest promotional successes I have seen in five decades of following the trots.

Ray Holloway was a master at promotion and Channel 9 sponsored the race, which included two rounds of heats. The WATA chartered and Ansett Air Freight Lockheed Electra to fly over 4 invited "Eastern States" horses. The four were Justin Hanover, which won the Final, Crystal Glenmar, Tiger Apollo and NSW pacer Allears. I was fortunate enough to be on the plane chaperoning a couple of high-priced NZ youngsters to there new home in Perth. When the side door of the Electra opened we we greeted by a Channel 9 news crew and various newspaper reporters.

Nightly reports featured on Ch 9 News and the crowds at Gloucester Park for the three race meetings was Inter-sized.

And, Rod, if you hadn't mentioned it we probably wouldn't have known the event had been run this year!

[Danno]

On a positive note, 4 of the first 5 finishers were WA bred and the other NSW, this race has been won by Kiwi breds more often that Aussie breds over the years I would hazard a guess.

[Messenger]

I noticed the customary abundance of 'NZ' missing too Dan - an encouraging sign for local breeders

[Messenger]

I know some of them were getting on a bit but some well known names gone

http://www.harnesslink.com/New-Zealand/17-horse-contingent-to-America

[Messenger]

Below is a pic of what I see when I open

https://www.tab.com.au/

It really irks me that I have to use the arrow to even see the Harness Icon.
And even then we come after MLB - what is that you might ask = Major League Baseball
If we actually rank 9th so be it but otherwise our administrators should be jumping up and down

[gutwagon]

Kevin, this has been annoying me too ! Surely racing, trots and dogs should be the first 3. It slows you down when trying to get a bet on.
Another problem that I have informed them about is on the android phone app they do not display the handicaps for the standing start trotting races. So it appears that all horses are starting from the front when some are of 10, 20 or 30 meters . I have to switch to the HRV site to check the handicaps. They show up on the desktop site ok. I don't know about the iphone app as I don't use one. They haven't fixed it yet.

[Messenger]

I hardly touch my phone but I have a suggestion that once solved a problem for me Rick. Have you tried turning your phone ie to landscape position, to see if more info is supplied that way

[Showgrounds]

Good spot Kev, the same thing was bothering me just last night. Harness racing listed between NBA and Two Flies Crawling Up A Wall.

[gutwagon]

I hardly touch my phone but I have a suggestion that once solved a problem for me Rick. Have you tried turning your phone ie to landscape position, to see if more info is supplied that way
Just tried that and no different, they just don't care about harness racing.

[Messenger]

Below is a pic of what I see when I open

https://www.tab.com.au/

It really irks me that I have to use the arrow to even see the Harness Icon.
And even then we come after MLB - what is that you might ask = Major League Baseball
If we actually rank 9th so be it but otherwise our administrators should be jumping up and down

I contacted Dayle Brown about this and was told he was going to get somebody onto it BUT no change

Today on the banner we see PROMOTIONS, TODAYS RACING (gallops), AFL, TODAYS GREYHOUNDS, EPL, ATP HAMBURG, NBA PLAYOFFS, MLB (then arrow to the also rans like us)

It is Monday afternoon and we are racing and surely taking more than some of these international sports right now

So we should be easy to find RIGHT NOW - we should be on the first banner

Even on phones with a short banner it should be easier

The following pic is an old one from the original post but you get what I am talking about - still no sign of Harness

[Messenger]

I reminder that you should only ever consider horse ownership for fun NOT money
Tornado Valley despite winning 2 Great Southern Stars and an Interdominion has still not won $1m
Our Princess Tiffany last night became only the 10th Australasian-bred mare to win $1m

[Adaptor]

From today's Breeders Bulletin

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?pli=1#inbox/WhctKJWQfkVwNMjTmMjBfHBXqXPqcJMFqczmZGnCzrHTJRxclr MpNhxjnrHNbgcwdLhGSrg

A 20% increase in price for the trotters and 85% clearance rate was a great way to start the day. The pacers achieved a similar average to last year with the sale achieving an amazing clearance rate of 95%.

[Messenger]

Yes, I mentioned the 95% in the Breeding forum, do you think it was because there was only 100 lots
Why was there only 100?

[Adaptor]

Yes, I mentioned the 95% in the Breeding forum, do you think it was because there was only 100 lots
Why was there only 100?

The Nutrien Sale. April 10 and 11. Many of the big breeders have switched over to the Nutrien sale.

https://www.nutrienequine.com.au/nutrien-equine-standardbred/yearling-sale-2021/

[Messenger]

The Nutrien Sale. April 10 and 11. Many of the big breeders have switched over to the Nutrien sale.

https://www.nutrienequine.com.au/nutrien-equine-standardbred/yearling-sale-2021/

Oh yes, 285 lots even after withdrawals

[Adaptor]

From today's Breeders Bulletin

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?pli=1#inbox/WhctKJWQfkVwNMjTmMjBfHBXqXPqcJMFqczmZGnCzrHTJRxclr MpNhxjnrHNbgcwdLhGSrg

A 20% increase in price for the trotters and 85% clearance rate was a great way to start the day. The pacers achieved a similar average to last year with the sale achieving an amazing clearance rate of 95%.

And good news from Day 1 of the NZ Yearling Sale:

Day One of trading at the 2021 National Yearling Sale kicked off with a strong benchmark after the Sale broke NZB Standardbred records selling 107 lots for a total turnover of $5,370,500, increasing more than 20% on last year’s aggregate.

The average rose to $50,192, with the median increasing to $40,000, while the clearance rate settled at a standout 82%.

[Messenger]

I just got an email from Racenet about a new login so I visited their site for the first time for yonks
And noticed that they now do the Dogs too
No sign of Harness :confused:

https://www.racenet.com.au/

[Messenger]

This is supposed to be a good news story

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Adam-turns-job-loss-into-blessing

But when I hear how many of them are contributing to the operation for $28k prizemoney in about 3 months - I can't help feel like it is chicken feed
I know in our industry that 30 starters for $28k IS considered good
Normally you would assume they are getting better training fees than this from the owners - owners literally 'support' trainers, but Adam owns the horses he races so I am thinking the prizemoney is pretty much it
Despite these good results the stable cannot be affording a luxurious lifestyle after you take out all the expenses
There can of course be additional returns from 'the punt' for some but that is called gambling
Oh the love of the game
Training horses reminds me of the old stories of men fulfilling their dream to buy a pub but then struggling to make ends meet

Of course I am reading a lot into this story and do not really know their circumstances

I know money is not everything and the joy of doing what you love (while surviving) is reward in itself but I would like success to be better than that

[Messenger]

Another $5k in the skyrocket for Adam tonight

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA250321#BAC25032109

[Mighty Atom]

I'm ignoring the good on this thread just too hard to find the bad and ugly on the other hand. Gloucester Park harness racing what a pathetic joke it has become the same old horses lining up week after week boring racing doesn't infuse any excitement what so ever. Far too many racing programs in the country and city where declaring the quality of horse mediocre would be overly magnanimous. The trotting races are an absolute joke field dominated by the same one or two trainers making up most of the field.
There are probably 8-10 horses racing in WA where you would be bothered to cross the road to watch a race.
I just can't imagine one Millenial even knowing what harness racing was about let alone being an active participant. No chance of getting a younger generation interested in harness racing WA. Greyhound racing now takes precedence over Harness racing Australia wide especially on racing channels like sky racing one.
Serious change is needed otherwise harness racing eventually will exist no more.

[Messenger]

The new moderate 'PeterProfit' has been writing about the health or otherwise of HRV.
The articles have in the main been well written (I have been wondering whether Archie has been getting some sleep or whether the articles are in fact him)

Today he makes the point that the improved prizemoney in Vic in the last 10yrs has been due to government grants in the vicinity of $8m
He suggests that when Covid is finally beaten the reality is going to be that the government is in a big black hole and budgets are going to be cut all over town. He goes on to say that as much as we think harness is important, it is not to anyone else - even those in the broader racing industry and certainly pales when compared to things like hospital funding

I know you could counter that government earn a take from harness gambling but he could well be right
The long and the short of it is, that he is saying that if we don't want to see prizemoney or tracks cut - we need to work on a plan now

[Messenger]

Maybe this is an answer. Toohard sent me this link. Horses as a tax deduction. Maybe this explains big prices like $800k for trotting fillies at the Lexington yearling sales

https://ctba.com/race-horse-depreciation-extended/

[Messenger]

Boost for base-stake races from January 2022
An additional $1.5 million stakemoney will be injected into base-stake races and $547,000 to support country clubs, Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) today announced.
Year one of the new stakemoney model will see open-age horses competing up to NR55 continue to race for $7000, while those competing up to NR64 will be lifted to $8000 and NR65+ races increased to $9000.

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/boost-for-base-stake-races-from-january-2022/

Overall I think I would have liked to have seen $4,500 races dramatically reduced - as in increased to $7,000

[Adaptor]

Boost for base-stake races from January 2022
An additional $1.5 million stakemoney will be injected into base-stake races and $547,000 to support country clubs, Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) today announced.
Year one of the new stakemoney model will see open-age horses competing up to NR55 continue to race for $7000, while those competing up to NR64 will be lifted to $8000 and NR65+ races increased to $9000.

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/boost-for-base-stake-races-from-january-2022/

Overall I think I would have liked to have seen $4,500 races dramatically reduced - as in increased to $7,000

There are plenty racing under the present conditions, and wll no doubt appreciate the lifts outlined.

Bendigo area ( Bendigo, Heathcote, Charlton, Elmore, Maryborough, Castlemaine ) trainers and drivers recorded 12 winners in the past 3 days, but today and tonight:
48 going around !!!
22 starters at Maryborough
26 starters at Swan Hill

[Messenger]

JB talks about the need for unity across the racing codes

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/bonnington/bonnington-power-lies-in-unity-for-our-racing-codes/

It is never going to happen - the gallops have never given a $#! £ about us and never will
It is like thinking Australia is important to America, we are too small to occupy 1% of their consciousness

Harness has to plot our own path. We have to highlight our points of difference - there are many, the biggest being that on course the gallops is only a spectator sport for a miniscule amount of the race except for those with binoculars and they are pretty rare nowadays

One difference that we should be going for is to stop using the whip - let the drivers carry them for the emergencies they say they need them for but that is all. Let's compete with the gallops on welfare (the doggies haven't got a snowflakes chance in hell with their appalling animal wastage)

JB also talks about St Arnaud but I still can't understand why it isn't a regional event - even if it needs to be a night event hold it at Ballarat or Bendigo or make it a $10k Sunday meet
What does he mean about 'retaining quality horses like Our Millionaire. ....' , where does he think they are going (WA?), there will always be races programmed for them without enough prizemoney to attract the big guns they cannot beat. If these races are run at 2nd tier country tracks there is a greater chance of avoiding the big guns

[Messenger]

This image from the finish of the Mackinnon Stakes, with James McDonald, new Spring Carnival record holder celebrating with previous holder Brett Prebble just after crossing the line is a dream piece for the PR people BUT I bet they would love to photoshop the whip out of it

[Messenger]

The last leg of the early Quaddie at Maryborough is only for $4,500
These owners, trainers and drivers are being ripped off
They are contributing as much to the meeting as everybody else!

It is time for this to stop

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MH181121

[Messenger]

R1 at Stawell today was a 4 horse claimer for $7k
while the 2nd leg of the main Quaddie has 10 starters going around for $4,500

I know which one is bringing in the most turnover
It is simply wrong

[Messenger]

I am a traitor
I thought I would go to the races one day this week
I contemplated Hamilton Harness on Monday or Ararat Gallops on Tuesday
I chose Ararat
You know I am a harness fan but Ararat had more appeal
The main reason is the horses in the (grass) mounting yard, right in front of where I can sit
Horses looking magnificent with little more than a saddle, bridle and reins on them
What with the time they spend in the yard before and after the race and only 30 minutes between races, there is just about something happening all the time
How do we compete with that?
I never attended a meet where they had a monte race - I wish I had

[Beltane]

Peter Profit has gone MIA with the message: "This domain expired."

[Messenger]

I think Harnesslink forgot to renew one time too so I expect he will be back

[Messenger]

He is still writing - I found it on Twitter (may be accessible through Facebook too)

[Messenger]

Yesterday I wrote this in the 'Harness Racing needs something better than Sky 1' thread

If you listen to the sound bite, Dayle Brown talks about TrotsVision here as being a viable alternative BUT as much as I love TrotsVision
What we really have to address here is the fact that we are virtually irrelevant
Wont ever be for me but to survive we have to turn around our decline in the market

peterprofit.com wrote about it today and went a lot further. I don't think he will mind me posting a snip of some of it below

He goes on to point out that TrotsVision is not a solution for as we all know, it really is just something that pleases us Rusted On.
As we die out and are not replaced by kids and grandkids to the same extent that may have happened in the past - then the sport is doomed

Like I said yesterday - relevance/market share must be addressed
8% market share to the Dogs 19%
We cannot ignore that 'what the sports leaders have been doing is not working'

[Showgrounds]

South Australia is a complete basket case and is on death row. Tasmania ditto if the sudden departure of Racing Tasmania's CEO is an indicator.

And on the eve of its biggest race of the year Queensland's racing minister has withheld $600,000 of funding payments from the Albion Park Harness Racing Club for refusing to implement Racing Queensland's directive to the Club to stand down its CEO while he was under investigation for alleged sexual assaults. That directive, issued under the industry's own policy on 1 September last year, was ignored. The CEO has now been committed to stand trial on one count of rape and two counts of sexual assault.

Oh, the Minister has refused to enter into a funding agreement with the Club for 2022-23 until the Club follows the directive.

This, plus Tas and SA, hardly paints a rosie picture. Throw in the APG dilemma - need I say more?

[Messenger]

PP reporting that HRV CEO Dayle Brown is leaving
While talented media presenter Nikkita Ross has announced she is moving to the gallops

[Adaptor]

PP reporting that HRV CEO Dayle Brown is leaving
While talented media presenter has announced she is moving to the gallops


Nikkita Ross. Congratulations!

[Messenger]

Thanks Noel, how did I leave out Nikkita - I'll blame the anaesthetic :confused:

[Messenger]

I hope PP is wrong with his latest posts about HRV.
He says they are about to reveal a big loss in their annual report
And that Tabcorp have withdrawn their promised sponsorship of ID22

[Messenger]

Yesterday, I mentioned HRV were not good at keeping things/records up to date but then I went off topic with the following, which is better placed in this thread.

I emailed info@hrv.org.au Attention Fiona Mellor (I don't know the acting CEO's direct email address) the following on the last day of September

I was wondering whether the Gemba research mentioned in the TrotsVision drives into colourful new era article is ‘Racing, Chasing and Pacing Horse Racing Betting Insights’ or whether there is some other research that I might read

You see she had stated:

“Research conducted for HRV by Gemba this year revealed a significant number of thoroughbred racing and ‘non-racing’ fans engaged with harness racing each month, meaning there is a substantial group of people engaging regularly with our sport that we can connect with further through extended broadcasts. This is a huge opportunity for growth.”

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/art...ture-meetings/

And I was seeking more info about this research

NO ANSWER

If you email Cody you will always get a reply but not so much others and I don't think it is fair to direct all my HRV inquiries to him

[Messenger]

Plymouth Chubb's Derby heat loss is why I have some reservations about Victoria's commitment to the trotting gait
I don't know whether races like this are ever going to convert gallops punters

My support for the trotting emphasis is on the proviso that we tap into the European market again

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MH231022#MHC23102203

[Messenger]

Yesterday, I mentioned HRV were not good at keeping things/records up to date but then I went off topic with the following, which is better placed in this thread.

I emailed info@hrv.org.au Attention Fiona Mellor (I don't know the acting CEO's direct email address) the following on the last day of September

I was wondering whether the Gemba research mentioned in the TrotsVision drives into colourful new era article is ‘Racing, Chasing and Pacing Horse Racing Betting Insights’ or whether there is some other research that I might read

You see she had stated:

“Research conducted for HRV by Gemba this year revealed a significant number of thoroughbred racing and ‘non-racing’ fans engaged with harness racing each month, meaning there is a substantial group of people engaging regularly with our sport that we can connect with further through extended broadcasts. This is a huge opportunity for growth.”

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/art...ture-meetings/

And I was seeking more info about this research

NO ANSWER

If you email Cody you will always get a reply but not so much others and I don't think it is fair to direct all my HRV inquiries to him

I am a bit of a bulldog and want to know if this
"Research conducted for HRV by Gemba this year revealed a significant number of thoroughbred racing and ‘non-racing’ fans engaged with harness racing each month, meaning there is a substantial group of people engaging regularly with our sport that we can connect with further through extended broadcasts."
really exists?!

So AGAIN I emailed info@hrv.org.au Attention Fiona Mellor (I don't know the acting CEO's direct email address)

The same day, October 20, Reception replied that the email had been forward to Fiona Mellor and Michael Howard in the Communications Department

The problem is HRV do not communicate

[Messenger]

This is from an interview with Freddie Hudson on the HRU website

What do you see as harness racing’s greatest problems?

“Four main ones:

“1. Nobody knows who we are. I’ve sat in on numerous equine organization meetings. Very few people know that we even exist. It’s pretty difficult to get improvements when people have no idea of what they are improving.

“2. Drugs, drugs and drugs. We have found that drug testing just doesn’t work. The chemists are ahead of the testing, often way ahead. It’s pretty difficult to test for drugs which you don’t know exist. The FBI has found that the best way to get rid of some of the miscreants is to follow them and pick up the threads of their evil deeds. The recent arrests have close to 100 per cent conviction rates. That was accomplished with not a single one based on the results of drug testing.

“3. The absence of youth participation in the sport. The entity that solves this will earn the everlasting gratitude of all involved in this wonderful sport.

“4. The leadership of our sport has to drastically change the status quo. We have to show the outside public that we are against the drugging of our horses, abusing them and then discarding them. Anyone who does so needs to be run out of the sport.”

https://harnessracingupdate.com/2022/10/23/freddie-hudson-on-sweet-memories-of-roosevelt-and-harness-racings-troubled-future/?cn-reloaded=1

Very few people know that we even exist

This is from the USA - it would seem that they have the exact same problems that we do, I had always thought they had a higher profile over there

It makes sense to me now that we are going down the trotting route in Vic - as long as we go the whole hog and reconnect with Europe again

We and the USA have to make ourselves known/relevant again

Thanks to Ray Chaplin of Equine Excellence for emailing the above article

[Messenger]

With no reply again
Does anybody know what research Gemba produced this year
Or is this just spin from the acting CEO
Maybe some of our posters who talk to the CEO can get her to reply to her email

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/trotsvision-drives-into-colourful-new-era/

posting link to article again to see if it opens (previous link is not although if you go back through https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/ you will find it on Sept 29)

[Messenger]

R6 on a beautiful day at Horsham and there is not 20 non stable people here watching
I know I am lucky to have the freedom to be here and there is plenty going on at this time of the year, including in the harness world, but if we can’t attract more than 20 are we kidding ourselves

[Messenger]

We have to create an image that cannot be doubted if we are going to pull ourselves out of the hole we are in - last of the 3 codes
Integrity not only has to be upheld it has to be seen to be upheld
We almost need to see Stewards making stable inspections
We have to know that there is stable storage of blood tests and retesting done whenever there are advances in testing

We cannot have PP claiming "It's just an extravaganza of cheating and celebration of weird science" or anybody else

He is making these claims with no proof - just basing it on the unlikely probability that one trainer cannot dominate like the Stewart stable has in the Inter
The fact is that with dominating the juvenile ranks for the last decade you would have expected them to do it at the Grand Circuit level before now
They are still yet to win an Inter so the accusations based purely on superior record seem unfair
The McCarthy dominated the 2021 Inter in exactly the same way with 7 heat wins but didn't actually get the first prize

If Clayton Tonkin had not been suspended over the Blue Magic saga, IMO there would hardly be anyone doubting the stable
Is there a time to move on and trust the authorities?
I think this is part of the problem I opened with. Over recent years we have seen at least a couple of 'headline charges' contested and contested and years later dropped
We need clear cut proof of innocence or guilt to improve our image

If anything was to create doubts about the existence of clean racing it would probably be the horse that knocked off the McCarthys last year
He has done nothing since
But once again there is no proof
Maybe if he had remained with Grimson he would have eventually found form again - maybe Grimson is a superior trainer to the Duffys and Stanley for this particular horse
Maybe he was just a meteor, a one season wonder.
Over the years there are AFL players that have incredible single seasons and even win the Brownlow medal but never come close to repeating the stellar season. We don't question how they did it

I want Harness Racing to be respected

[aussiebreno]

We have to create an image that cannot be doubted if we are going to pull ourselves out of the hole we are in - last of the 3 codes
Integrity not only has to be upheld it has to be seen to be upheld
We almost need to see Stewards making stable inspections
We have to know that there is stable storage of blood tests and retesting done whenever there are advances in testing

We cannot have PP claiming "It's just an extravaganza of cheating and celebration of weird science" or anybody else

He is making these claims with no proof - just basing it on the unlikely probability that one trainer cannot dominate like the Stewart stable has in the Inter
The fact is that with dominating the juvenile ranks for the last decade you would have expected them to do it at the Grand Circuit level before now
They are still yet to win an Inter so the accusations based purely on superior record seem unfair
The McCarthy dominated the 2021 Inter in exactly the same way with 7 heat wins but didn't actually get the first prize

If Clayton Tonkin had not been suspended over the Blue Magic saga, IMO there would hardly be anyone doubting the stable
Is there a time to move on and trust the authorities?
I think this is part of the problem I opened with. Over recent years we have seen at least a couple of 'headline charges' contested and contested and years later dropped
We need clear cut proof of innocence or guilt to improve our image

If anything was to create doubts about the existence of clean racing it would probably be the horse that knocked off the McCarthys last year
He has done nothing since
But once again there is no proof
Maybe if he had remained with Grimson he would have eventually found form again - maybe Grimson is a superior trainer to the Duffys and Stanley for this particular horse
Maybe he was just a meteor, a one season wonder.
Over the years there are AFL players that have incredible single seasons and even win the Brownlow medal but never come close to repeating the stellar season. We don't question how they did it

I want Harness Racing to be respected

Nah he's been on the ball lately. Just see these tips. https://peterprofit.com/trot-tips-9/

We would have got an update by now if that was Bonnos tips

[Messenger]

He actually did an update saying his tips went crap but that is an aside
He will undoubtedly continue to point out racing's shortcomings as that is his mission statement
But let's make unsupported accusations look silly by being and showing that we are the best code going around

[aussiebreno]

Ah I see. He had filed original tips in 'The Trots' section but not the results.

[Theoldfox]

Here is perfect example of what is wrong with the industry...https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=59246

where you can read the following passages
"Moran, who drives favourite Honolua Bay in the final, is coming off a year he’d love to throw in the bin.
Wind the clock back 12 months when he snared the late pick-up drive on Expensive Ego and won the Sydney Inter Dominion final for 26 minutes … only to lose it on protest in the stewards’ room.
He’s still dirty on the decision which robbed him of his first win in the sport’s biggest race.
Moran then spent seven months sidelined by suspension before returning just to have his stable superstar, Lochinvar Art, have a “bleed” in a race at Melton and be sent to North American to continue his career. The $1.4 million-earner had put him on the map.
What kept a smile on his face all the way through was the thought of driving champion mare Ladies In Red."

I have never spoken to Mr Moran (Irony of the name with respect to Melbourne corruption didn't pass me without notice either) but someone who tips his ex partner out of the cart deliberately resulting in two horses going on the run, illegally bets on a race and gets given a holiday is not a knockabout good bloke we should be feeling sorry for. His time out was his doing, his record is a blemish on the industry. He is not a beacon of all the good things as portrayed in the article. The absolute irony is that the article was published on the same day as the publication of the VCAT ruling which can be found here.... https://integrity.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/vcat-hearing-david-moran/

where it states the following,

"On 6 December 2022, the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) heard an application for review filed by Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) regarding the penalty decision of the Victorian Racing Tribunal (VRT) dated 18 February 2022, concerning licensed trainer-driver David Moran. This VCAT review was in relation to the penalties imposed by the VRT on Charges 1 and 4 only.
Background
At the VRT hearing on 7 February 2022, Mr Moran pleaded guilty to Charge 1 issued under Australian Harness Racing Rule (AHRR) 231(1)(f) for approaching licensed trainer-driver Laura Crossland on 14 November 2019, who was seated in a sulky driving a horse, whilst leading two other horses. Mr Moran took hold of the sulky and raised it, causing Ms Crossland to fall from the sulky onto the ground and lose control of the horses. The VRT imposed a 6-month suspension, 2 months of which were suspended for a period of 24 months.
Mr Moran also pleaded guilty to Charge 4 issued under AHRR 173(1) for placing a win bet on ‘Ellmers Hoofing It NZ’ prior to race 7 at the Echuca harness racing meeting on 12 December 2019, when Mr Moran participated in the race as the driver of another horse, ‘Scotlynn Beach NZ.’ The VRT imposed a 6-month suspension, 3 months of which were suspended for a period of 24 months.
The full VRT decision can be found here.
VCAT
In the VCAT decision on 6 December 2022, Senior Member Wentworth varied the penalties issued by the VRT and ordered that the following penalties be imposed in substitution:
Charge 1 – 12-month suspension, 8 months of which are suspended for a period of 24 months, pending no further breach of the relevant rule.
Charge 4 – 9-month suspension, 6 months of which are suspended for a period of 24 months, pending no further breach of the relevant rule.
The total immediate period of suspension of 7 months were ordered to commence 18 February 2022 and have already been served by Mr Moran. The VCAT Orders can be viewed here.

Seriously, is this the best person the Harness Racing industry paid "media" can come up with for a feature article? And to refer to his suspension/disqualifications as bad luck and that he is due for good Karma...What the hell?!
Write an article about the strapper, an unheralded participant, or anyone else really. It would be much more interesting than reading about an aggressive angry man that illegally bets on races he is a participant in.
The industry needs to take a deep look in the mirror if this is the best they can put forward.

[Messenger]

You're not wrong Old Fox.
As we have said before they are in now way independent and as much as we need them to spruik our code, they need to be selective AND be critical when that is what is required. The reason Archie/Peter Profit exists is because he fills a gap created by our media not investigating anything negative.

[Messenger]

I read this line in a harnesslink article

All told, his progeny has earned $1.74million – an excellent total from only four racing crops.

We can't compete when this is considered excellent.
Gallops owners can dream of winning this much with their horse in one race (and yes it is 99.99% dream but some do achieve it)

[Messenger]

I have been pretty slack this year and had not even read the FY22 Annual Report of HRV that came out in October
An email from an astute reader prompted me to read it

https://www.thetrots.com.au/about-hrv/annual-reports/

FY23 is going to be an interesting one as they will no longer have the covid excuse to fall back on.

Dale Monteith said:

We were mindful of the risks of merely maintaining an unacceptable status quo approach to the years ahead. To not prioritise growth would be to consign the industry to decline. While achieving growth across the industry is challenging, the alternative is not a viable option if our industry is to achieve long-term financial sustainability

While understanding this strategy, spending more such as $6m in expenses can only continue for a limited time if it does not translate to increased revenue

[aussiebreno]

Nah Kev what are you worried about. As per page 53 expenses are going to be stationary. It says so right next to printing expenses :p

[Messenger]

It may just be Mark Purdon ticking something off his bucket list but the emboldened part makes this a Bad Industry Indicator

Purdon, 58, says that change means Nathan and Mikayla will be in charge of the day-to-day running of the business side of the stable, but with Mark as senior training partner, but with the freedom to spend time doing other things, the most obvious being moving into training thoroughbreds.

While he harbours no delusions of challenging Mark Walker or Andrew Forsman any time soon, Purdon says his increased interest in the thoroughbred code has come about for several reasons.

“I think harness racing is facing real challenges, and while I still enjoy it, I also want to investigate what my future, and that of the boys [Nathan and his other son Michael], may look like,” explains Purdon.

“I really enjoy watching the good gallops meetings and want to be more involved, so I bought three yearlings at Karaka and also have a two-year-old that I will train later this season when I get through the major harness races.

“I have applied for my gallops training licence, so hopefully they approve it soon.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/horse-racing-mark-purdon-sets-sights-on-new-tack/3442INI54JFGXKJ7TPJ3WW4H7M/

[Showgrounds]

It may just be Mark Purdon ticking something off his bucket list but the emboldened part makes this a Bad Industry Indicator

Purdon, 58, says that change means Nathan and Mikayla will be in charge of the day-to-day running of the business side of the stable, but with Mark as senior training partner, but with the freedom to spend time doing other things, the most obvious being moving into training thoroughbreds.

While he harbours no delusions of challenging Mark Walker or Andrew Forsman any time soon, Purdon says his increased interest in the thoroughbred code has come about for several reasons.

“I think harness racing is facing real challenges, and while I still enjoy it, I also want to investigate what my future, and that of the boys [Nathan and his other son Michael], may look like,” explains Purdon.

“I really enjoy watching the good gallops meetings and want to be more involved, so I bought three yearlings at Karaka and also have a two-year-old that I will train later this season when I get through the major harness races.

“I have applied for my gallops training licence, so hopefully they approve it soon.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/horse-racing-mark-purdon-sets-sights-on-new-tack/3442INI54JFGXKJ7TPJ3WW4H7M/

Not only is the man a great horseman, but he can also read the tea leaves. It is hardly new territory, as trotting folk have proven to be as good as any thoroughbred trainers given the right opportunity. Kevin Robinson and Fred Kersley are great example of this. On the reverse, Graeme Rogerson is still at the top of his game with his young thoroughbred champ Sharp'N Smart. The transition to training standardbreds has been moderately successful for him, but no walk in the park.

[Messenger]

The Mildura thread mentions Michelle Phillips drive being a bit dodgy the other night and laments that the young in our industry may be too
PP cites another example from Launceston on Sunday night
He suggests that there was team driving in R7 where Ben Yole had 10 of the 12 runners but Malcolm Jones on one of the other two showed some initiative however Tiarna Ford on the leader was alerted to him coming by 21yo Olivia Weidenbach on stablemate Vinny Chase who was on her back, with her "Look Out" so loud that the whole course heard it. She was only fined $100

https://tasracing.com.au/replays/12022023-harness-launceston?race=7

[Messenger]

When all the Sales now 2-4 wks gone are the majority of the advertising on

https://www.thetrots.com.au/

You cannot help but feel we are struggling

At least the banner ad for the Mildura Carnival is current but doesn't it run from the Tuesday to the Saturday, not just the Friday and Saturday

[Messenger]

Somebody must be reading - A 'Big Screen Company' ad has replaced a row of old Sale ads

[Messenger]

The top earner for Victoria's top 3 breeders

Yabby Dam Farm: Just Believe ($278,930)
Lauriston Bloodstock: Ladies In Red ($327,020)
Durham Park: Act Now ($226,650)

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/wharton/wharton-champion-victorian-breeders-net-5-4mil-in-stakes/

This is the top 3 of the top 3

I was somewhat shocked the numbers were so small

Sure prizemoney is not that big but the bigger factor is that Vic's best (Ladies In Red $327k) was only 10th on the Top Earners chart

https://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/top20/index.cfm/starters/all/sort/stakes/seasonId/692?d=19042023

(5 of the Top 8 are NZ bred)

[aussiebreno]

https://www.tab.com.au/racing/2023-07-22/H/Harness%20Futures/The%20Blacks%20A%20Fake%20%20(Pre%20Noms)?futures= true

Horse wins $1M race last week and TAB can't even get its name right or that its listed twice (at different odds mind you). Bettor Zippit....

[Messenger]

I think I would be taking the $11

[Messenger]

One of the 'Uglies' of harness racing is horses being driven dead to lose rating points in order to qualify for a future race
PP highlights/lowlights(?) some of the horses driven dead in order to qualify for Menangle's Regional Championship today
I have to say Ashleigh Delosa's acting is hilarious in this one
Watch Parked In Heaven No.9 Red with Black Diamond

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ME020523#MEC02052305

As PP puts it - had she lost her wallet or was she hearing voices LOL

[Messenger]

Surprise, surprise - look who won

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ME090523#MEC09052301

[Showgrounds]

Surprise, surprise - look who won

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ME090523#MEC09052301

PP appears to have been spot on with his article this morning, well done.

[Showgrounds]

PP appears to have been spot on with his article this morning, well done.

But here is the real scandal. The stewards had nothing at all to say after this horse won today but cop a load of the puerile rubbish the put in the stewards' report from 2 May. Kindergarten level stewarding, read race 7:

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=ME020523

[Messenger]

This is what Trevor is referring to

Don't you love how she does the little kid 2 excuses line just in case they don't believe the first one - pathetic

ps If they do not believe she was trying then they should be questioning the trainer too - in my book stewards should be feared!

[Messenger]

Popular Alm won the Italian Cup worth $10k in 1984 and the median house price was $68,200

10/06/2023 the Italian Cup is worth $24k and the median house price is $836,800 (down from $900k in 2022)

Admittedly we are talking about 'more house' but in 1984 the $7k 1st Prize was worth more than 10% of a house
In 2023 the $13,680 1st is worth a bit over 1.5% of a house

[Showgrounds]

HRV programmes run of the mill races and, these days, passes them off as time-honoured feature races. All smoke and mirrors.

[aussiebreno]

House prices unfair indicator though given the very same house despite being 23 years older have gone from around 3x median wage in 2000 to 7-8x median wage in 2023. Using median wage as the indicator:

1984 median wage $25k
2022 median wage $65k

1984 1st prizemoney 28% of median wage
2023 1st prizemoney 21% of median wage

[aussiebreno]

Did anybody know the Truer Memorial was on Monday?

[Messenger]

WOW we missed it

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BK120623#BKC12062301

I see this was posted on the day (but I did not see it then)

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=61326

Was once a race we would NEVER EVER forget and it IS still worth $50k (Half what it used to be but still significant and a Gp3)

[Showgrounds]

I haven't looked but let me guess. The Treuer Memorial at Bankstown.

Run on a 7 race card on a public holiday Monday afternoon. Another wonderful marketing and publicity failure.

[Messenger]

The last at Kilmore on Sunday resembles a Tassie Ben Yole benefit

It irks me that we have several good size fields racing for $4,500 on the program
While this race which could easily end up a field of 3 is for $10,000

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=KI250623#KIC25062304

[Showgrounds]

All of those horses are overpriced. $50,000 for Bernie Winkle would have been good buying before he won 20 races at Mildura. But now, seriously?

On the other hand there are plenty of other overvalued horses that should be running in $10,000 claimers but connections believe they are far more valuable.

[Messenger]

And here we have a stable throwing in a couple of extra runners to make it 4/6 so that a race stands up

[Messenger]

The last at Kilmore on Sunday resembles a Tassie Ben Yole benefit

It irks me that we have several good size fields racing for $4,500 on the program
While this race which could easily end up a field of 3 is for $10,000

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=KI250623#KIC25062304

All 6 are racing but it is the Douglas stable - they do not believe in resting/spelling their horses

[Messenger]

Some of you may have noticed Gavelhouse's recent auction updates for broodmare Carla's Pixel (in foal to Captaintreacherous) front and centre on the HRA homepage
She ended up going for $300k

https://www.harnessbred.com/300000-carlas-pixel-never-million-years/

Shannon Nixon getting out of breeding may be the bigger story

[Showgrounds]

All 6 are racing but it is the Douglas stable - they do not believe in resting/spelling their horses

Or getting them off the floor. Both Rick Reilly and Bernie Winkle raced at Mildura on Friday, a long round trip before fronting up at Kilmore just 48 hours later.

No animal welfare concerns there, obviously.

[Messenger]

USA Harness Racing seems to be going in the right direction

Total wagering on U.S. harness races during the second quarter of 2023 from April 1 through June 30 increased by $17,429,145 (4.20 percent) with $432,816,519 bet this year compared to $415,387,374 during the same three months in 2022.

Purses during the second quarter showed an increase of 6.35 percent. From April through June, $123,886,570 was distributed in purses compared to $116,494,120 last year, an increase of $7,392,450.

Average wagering per race increased by 0.55 percent from $43,762 to $44,003. Wagering per betting interest was down slightly during the second quarter by 1.00 percent at $5,659 compared to $5,716 in 2022.

The number of race days increased by 17 (2.00 percent) with 868 this year compared to 851 last year.

https://ustrottingnews.com/u-s-harness-racing-economic-indicators-for-2023-second-quarter/

I am thinking they must also be running more races because 2% more race days and an increase of 0.5% betting per race would normally suggest a 2.5% increase in wagering (not 4%) to my simple little brain

[Messenger]

"USA Harness Racing seems to be going in the right direction" (see above) but maybe NOT as we have John Mane writing 'Hello? Is there anybody listening?'

Looking at the results from the five racing days leading up to our July 4 celebration (Wednesday, June 28, through Sunday, July 2), there were 21 pari-mutuel racing harness racing establishments in action.
A total of 576 races were contested with 4,451 horses going back of the starting gates. There were also a couple of cancellations and shortened racing programs during the period depriving a couple of hundred more horses of earning power for their owners, trainers and drivers…although the expenses kept on…

Of those 21 tracks, only two could muster enough entries to average nine starters a race—Scioto Downs and The Meadowlands.

This is not conducive for the future growth of our sport as it is a spectator sport and now, many tracks are unable to stand alone without the help of casinos and/or legislative help—something that is far from guaranteed in the future—leaving the patrons uncared and unappreciated.

Any time a track has less than eight starters in a race, the pari-mutuel prices get smaller, and the betting pools shrink right along with the number of starters…and the number of bettors.

https://harnesslink.com/usa/hello-is-there-anybody-listening/

[aussiebreno]

US inflation was up around 8% for a lot of last year so a 4.2% increase is still a loss of 3.8% in real terms.

[Messenger]

Probably better using that inflation figure for prizemoney which was only up 6.35% (wouldn't we love to say prizemoney was up 6.35%)
The more relevant figure for wagering comparison might be wage increases as this somewhat equates to spending power - were they up more than 4.2%?
If wages weren't up 8% to match inflation, then a 4.2% increase in wagering would be very good as the average home would have been experiencing a spending squeeze to offset the increase in all their essential spending

[aussiebreno]

Probably better using that inflation figure for prizemoney which was only up 6.35% (wouldn't we love to say prizemoney was up 6.35%)
The more relevant figure for wagering comparison might be wage increases as this somewhat equates to spending power - were they up more than 4.2%?
If wages weren't up 8% to match inflation, then a 4.2% increase in wagering would be very good as the average home would have been experiencing a spending squeeze to offset the increase in all their essential spending

Would still compare for both. Current wagering will reflect future prizemoney.

Quick search says US wage growth 5%. So guess through that market share type lense its only a very minor downturn however the wage growth is irrelevant when looking through the lense of expenses of the industry. If costs are rising 8% and wagering only up 4% thats still a chunk of higher expenses without the income to match.

[Messenger]

No, what I was meaning in regards to wage growth is in terms of household income. If peoples' expenses are increasing by 8% but their wages are not, then it is unlikely they are going to wager as much. If inflation is +8% (cost of living) and wage growth +5% then I think the US industry should probably be reasonably happy with an increase in turnover of 4.2%

[aussiebreno]

No, what I was meaning in regards to wage growth is in terms of household income. If peoples' expenses are increasing by 8% but their wages are not, then it is unlikely they are going to wager as much. If inflation is +8% (cost of living) and wage growth +5% then I think the US industry should probably be reasonably happy with an increase in turnover of 4.2%
Yes I get that hence the viewing from lense of market share comment.

However for raceclubs and associations future survival they are still down 3% real inflated adjusted income and up 8% expenses.

You can take some positive out of wagering staying consistent with wage growth and being better with disposable income, but at the end of the day hanging your hat on that wont pay the bills.

Inflation not the fault of the sport, but its not good reading for financial viability of the sport.

[Messenger]

Sure it is not a 'metro' meet and there is even another meet on at Mildura
BUT
$4,500 races at our metro track (Melton is that) on a Friday night
FEELS WRONG

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX140723

(only 2 of 10 races But it still feels wrong)

[Showgrounds]

These races, along with stakemoney for unplaced horses, just reward mediocrity and diminish returns for the better performed horses. In turn, that diminishes the punting pool. I confess to be just shooting from the hip with the last statement as I haven't researched it. i guess if a well-proven horse snuck its way into a $4,500 race it might attract some big wagers but it would also shrink the size of the pool due to nobody wanting to punt on its opponents.

I think I have said it before, but these lesser races were once the domain of non-TAB picnic clubs. They were a good thing for advancing horses, educating young stock while paying for some feed and a good, social occasion. All of this was flushed down the river when HRV, in its unquestionable wisdom, determined all its races would be TAB-covered events. The minimum stake for these has risen from $3,000 to $4,500 over the years but, seemingly to the detriment of the minimum country stakes.

How many years have we been racing for $7,000 now in Victoria? Seven or eight is my rough guess.

[Messenger]

If you are wondering why we are behind the other codes for turnover
Tomorrow in Australia there are
15 Thoroughbred tote meetings
8 Greyhound tote meetings
3 Harness tote meetings

We are clearly a 'boutique' industry

[Messenger]

Most of us rusted on harness people still know the champions going around in the gallops
My 30's son-in-law makes his living out the gallops, he used to work for a big betting agency but has gone out on his own - so he is a serious racing person.
I brought up Leap To Fame (going to talk about his brother beat him ...) - He has never heard of Leap To Fame

Far out - we have to throw heaps of money at regaining a profile if we are to be anything other than 'boutique' and irrelevant to anybody other than rusted ons

[Messenger]

Shocking if it is true, according to PP this is why NZ standardbred mares (especially in foal) are being sold to China

[Showgrounds]

28 horses, ALL fillies and mares, exported to China in the past month according to the Exported Horses report from the HRNZ website.

It is true, why else would they be air- freighting standardbred mares into China? And broodmares, when there is no racing?

[KTQ]

Edit: I see you posted elsewhere about this Kev. Ill keep this post up but will keep my conversation to the other thread

Not sure where to put this but I was looking up my colt's full sister on HRNZ having decided to reach out to the owners to buy her. Noticed she's been exported... to China. 27 in total were exported to China in July (ALL were mares 3yo-11yo), in comparison 29 were exported to Australia with just 1 to the USA. I'm a little concerned about this - have read that it's a scam and the horses are put in foal and foals aborted so they can harvest the placenta for face creams. Surely... surely that can't be right. also been told that they race them there under saddle but wouldn't explain why theyre buying older broodmares. Any insights?

Note: This post was moved by Moderator Messenger

[KTQ]

28 horses, ALL fillies and mares, exported to China in the past month according to the Exported Horses report from the HRNZ website.

It is true, why else would they be air- freighting standardbred mares into China? And broodmares, when there is no racing?

Sorry, I was too slow and didn't see you two commenting this (I made a post elsewhere). It is very concerning - I was hoping to buy one of the horses on the export list. Stupid me, didn't think they'd be interested in selling her so put my thoughts aside until tonight. Surely they wouldn't just be giving these broodmares away? How would it be worth it for China, they'd have horses there already no?

[Messenger]

Katie, we are only 2nd hand reporting what Peter Profit has been writing
There is no suggestion that the horses are being given away as the Rejuvenating Cream is VERY expensive and PP is suggesting that one placenta can be worth millions as the creams contain a miniscule amount
PP even suggested that one sire/stud farm was taking advantage of the demand for impregnated mares
I think there was also a suggestion that Thoroughbreds and Standardbreds were preferred for some reason

[Messenger]

The Age has a shocking leading story today that the 3M company has contaminated all of our bloodstreams with forever chemicals
Why I include it here, is the mention of the chemist who discovered the extent of the contamination (back in the 1990's!)

Overwhelmed by his workload, Bacon outsourced some sampling to Dr Jack Henion at New York’s Cornell University, nicknamed by those acquainted with the case as “Horse Track Jack”.

“Jack was from Cornell but he ran a private little side business where he analysed racehorse blood serum in New York state for dopers and cheaters; is that fair to say?” Douglas asked Bacon during his deposition.

“That was his claim to fame,” Bacon said.

Sometimes I feel dirty for loving horse racing

[Messenger]

We are 10 months into the season = to 83.3% over

I think most would consider Aaron Dunn a fairly high achieving trainer (and owner/driver)
How many of his horses do you think have won $100k this season?
How many of his horses do you think have won $50k this season?
How many of his horses do you think have won $20k this season?

[Messenger]

This post HAS TO BE READ AFTER THE ABOVE POST as it is the answers to the above post

DON'T LOOK DOWN YET

DON'T LOOK DOWN YET

DON'T LOOK DOWN YET

The answers are one, one and just the above two
Yes, Aaron's stable have only had two horses earn over twenty thousand this season so far

As far as indicators of how our industry is going - this is bad

[aussiebreno]

Horses 3-10 of his on $$ this year have only had 76 starts and won $100k between them. 5 of those 8 have had 10 or less starts.

Most meeting have around 80 starters and $60k prizemoney so his stats actually read good in that sense. There would have to be plenty worse off trainers to get the point about prizemoney across.

[Messenger]

You don't get it Brendan - I chose him because Everybody knows that there are Mostly worse. (I said he would be considered a fairly high achiever)

Aaron is not only the trainer/driver/owner of his horses (so it all goes into his coffers), he is a successful businessman so he can afford harness to be non-profitable

You need to tone down the warrior - stop thinking you have to rebut what others write

If a trainer is not on the National Top 20 list, they are probably struggling to justify their training fees based on owner returns only - I say only because not everybody expects ownership to be a 'free' interest/hobby

[aussiebreno]

You don't get it Brendan - I chose him because Everybody knows that there are Mostly worse. (I said he would be considered a fairly high achiever)

Aaron is not only the trainer/driver/owner of his horses (so it all goes into his coffers), he is a successful businessman so he can afford harness to be non-profitable

You need to tone down the warrior - stop thinking you have to rebut what others write

If a trainer is not on the National Top 20 list, they are probably struggling to justify their training fees based on owner returns only - I say only because not everybody expects ownership to be a 'free' interest/hobby
I just don't think it is in anyway noteworthy. Just the 76 starts between those 8 horses is <10 starts each. It doesn't matter how good you are if you have bugger all starters. If you dig deeper a couple of the better horses have only had very limited starts so no chance of cracking $20K. Its hardly surprising if you have bugger all starters you have bugger all prizemoney. He's had 5 horses have over 10 starts, 2 of those cracked the $20K and one is awfully close.

I let most posts go through to the keeper but only rebut when I see appropriate. If you can criticise Maryborough race videos, Trotsvision audio, Melton scheduling just in the past 3 days etc I think you can take some rebuttals!

[Messenger]

Fair enough
Do you think Mary, TrotsV and Scheduling all deserve a free pass?
I didn't put a lot of work into researching the Dunn example (this is only a forum after all) but I think the point I am making - that it is a bad industry to try and earn a living from, is still clear

Another example. Adam Hamilton's latest article is about how Wave and Ravishing are going to clash in a $40k race. To attract a couple of top horses in the gallops you would at least need a 2 in front of that sum. Watching the $5m Cox Plate on Saturday, you could not help but notice Adam front and centre in the winner's stall - I wonder how he rationalizes the difference in the codes

What I would really like is for more people to post (esp initiate topics) I feel the forum is too reliant on me (yourself and a couple of others sometimes) to keep it ticking over.
If a forum does not have something new on it pretty much daily - it will die. It can become a chore for me sometimes - harness is not even my number 1 hobby
If I did not post for a week or two, I think this forum would be dead. Sometimes I am scratching to post something so you can see how rebuttals might get on my goat

For my first interest, I can go to one forum and find 20 new posts every day for me to read and enjoy

[aussiebreno]

- Maryborough you would think by now would have been sorted
- Trotsvision not great with their hiccups sometimes but I can understand occasional wtf moments given low budget production
- The scheduling Sat night was great. If that suits TAB turnover and personally/selfihsly it also suits me more to have the better races at that time.

Appreciate you keep the forum ticking. Tbh I use forum/you as my important news filter knowing I dont need to spend 15mins trawling harness.org every day because if something important comes up you would have posted about it!

I think the need to show real names, twitter and facebok have worked against this forums activity levels.

[Messenger]

Thanks Brendan
I too suspect real names has worked against forum activity But the comments that anonymity can garner would have probably seen us closed down before now

[trish]

From Brendan.....Appreciate you keep the forum ticking. Tbh I use forum/you as my important news filter knowing I dont need to spend 15mins trawling harness.org every day because if something important comes up you would have posted about it!

I am the same, so thank you Kevin.

I think people do not write what they think any more, with good reason. Shame but that's how it is.
I could write plenty but would be in big trouble hahaha

I think PP is good for his stories, especially when they are correct.

[trish]

My biggest problem is the positive swabs & why they take so long to be heard.

Main reason I now follow the Gallops.

[Messenger]

I could write plenty but would be in big trouble hahaha


I am here to keep you out of trouble Trish

[trish]

I am here to keep you out of trouble Trish

Thanks Kev , I do appreciate it & my Mum used to say the same!!!

[Messenger]

and I bet she used to frequently say "Patricia (insert 2nd name here)"

[trish]

and I bet she used to frequently say "Patricia (insert 2nd name here)"

Did you know my mum Kev??
Hahaha

[Messenger]

Horses 3-10 of his on $$ this year have only had 76 starts and won $100k between them. 5 of those 8 have had 10 or less starts.

Most meeting have around 80 starters and $60k prizemoney so his stats actually read good in that sense. There would have to be plenty worse off trainers to get the point about prizemoney across.

I forgot to mention that the beauty of choosing AD, is that he is not charging any training fees and so I am not putting down 'a business' which I would be if I had chosen another trainer

[Messenger]

Researching last night's 3yo winner Earl Of Pembroke and I find this
I am disturbed when I find 3 horses that have died earlier than they should have. Are we being totally honest when we just say Dead - did the owner have a terrible run of luck or were these horse euthanized?

[Jasper]

It is impossible to say. Whilst horses are very resilient on the track a lot do seem to find a way to die, for want of a better expression. The most extreme example I have encountered was a horse who broke a shoulder after a branch dropped on it (the tree was outside the yard). Snake bites are another common cause of death. On Monday our horses race day companion horse was put into his yard and smashed his back pastern jumping around i.e right in front of the trainer, and was put down My first horse (yearling filly) broke its neck after it jumped a fence and landed heavily.

We lost a mother and daughter (3yo) due to a paddock accident and an illness in close proximity a few years back so it can happen. Strangely another of the mares progeny died prior to a race around the same time also. All these horses mentioned above were all well cared for and resided in safe, understocked paddocks/yards with excellent vet care but this is no guarantee. Luck seems to play a large part in the survival of many animals, even with the best of care. (Please note I am condensing years of examples for the sake of this post)

[Messenger]

True Daniel, this was not a classic example - researching the NZ site, I have been known to find more than one progeny that died on the same day.
Giving ourselves the benefit of the doubt, let's say only half the suspicious ones have been euthanized.

[Messenger]

Post Moved from 'Are HRV Broke' thread

We really have gone so far backwards

It is the Ouyen Cup on Sunday
We have 8 races with a total prize pool of $57k

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=OU240324#OUC24032401

Yep 8 races with an average of $7k a race is hardly a Cup program
It is what a normal race meeting was a few years ago and with development and inflation you would have hoped that that would have been closer to $10k/race nowadays

When Messini won the Ouyen Cup in 2017 there were 9 races with a total pool of $91k = $10k a race

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=OU260317#OUC26031701

We need a brave CEO and Board with a radical plan
Some bold decisions need to be made ASAP (after research and consultation of course)

Absolutely everything should be on the table
- sell Melton
- rotate the weekend Metro meeting between Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo and Shep
- sell or close any unprofitable country tracks AND Melton and get a truly metro track
- don't worry about where we race as crowds are a thing of the past/not important (Not sure I believe this as normally you would have been an attendee before becoming an owner)
- does a model exist where we don't need owners!
- .........................................

I would rather see us go down swinging than slowly but surely sinking like we are now

It seems that too many involved are only concerned about harness racing 'seeing them out'
Get the best minds available - in and out of the industry, including the young ones
and come up with a plan to STOP THE ROT

[gutwagon]

I heard a rumour that HRV wants to close every track in Vic and just race at Melton only ! Wouldn't surprise me !

[Yabbie]

I heard a rumour that HRV wants to close every track in Vic and just race at Melton only ! Wouldn't surprise me !

That is definitely not the case - lots of rumours going around but we will just have to wait to see what actually happens

[Messenger]

Hopefully there will be lots of communication and consultation !!!!!!!!!!!

Apart from Melton (and I am guessing Cranbourne) Victorian harness racing is only alive in Country Victoria - all proposals need to remember this

[Messenger]

PP has a story about the Doggies biggest problem today - the thousands of dogs that they put down. He is correct that one option would be to shut down dog racing

[Messenger]

The Victorian Government has appointed new member Dennis Bice to Harness Racing Victoria's board and reappointed Adam Kilgour.

Bice brings a wealth of industry experience, including eight years as an executive at the Victorian Harness Racing Club and six years as president of the Bendigo Harness Racing Club.

Kilgour will serve as chair for an initial period of six months and his reappointment will ensure vital leadership and continuity for the HRV board, on which he has served as a member since 2017.

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/changes-announced-to-harness-racing-victorias-board/?fbclid=IwAR215o_PhdMOsZdTUjRBo-vSEDWfG1X2gAjtgYSy0UfAxPb8L87ved5G0DE_aem_Ac65ieux vhAkr56v6cfhuQP-RjT38H_B5JGcemROf0wgu0FHFIB05svAxzSh99-cMlqe824auQqB-7ZTiZjkPzuN

We really are stuffed!

If our interim chairman has been on the board during our continued dreadful demise then he simply cannot be a good choice - sorry but it is that simple!

Doesn't everybody see that we are up to our waist in quicksand

[Yabbie]

The Victorian Government has appointed new member Dennis Bice to Harness Racing Victoria's board and reappointed Adam Kilgour.

Bice brings a wealth of industry experience, including eight years as an executive at the Victorian Harness Racing Club and six years as president of the Bendigo Harness Racing Club.

Kilgour will serve as chair for an initial period of six months and his reappointment will ensure vital leadership and continuity for the HRV board, on which he has served as a member since 2017.

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/changes-announced-to-harness-racing-victorias-board/?fbclid=IwAR215o_PhdMOsZdTUjRBo-vSEDWfG1X2gAjtgYSy0UfAxPb8L87ved5G0DE_aem_Ac65ieux vhAkr56v6cfhuQP-RjT38H_B5JGcemROf0wgu0FHFIB05svAxzSh99-cMlqe824auQqB-7ZTiZjkPzuN

We really are stuffed!

If our interim chairman has been on the board during our continued dreadful demise then he simply cannot be a good choice - sorry but it is that simple!

Doesn't everybody see that we are up to our waist in quicksand

But it’s only a 6 month stint as chair. We will see. There are more vacancies to be filled yet ……

[gutwagon]

Bit like putting the co pilot of the Titanic in charge ! What has he done in the last 7 years ?

[Messenger]

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/q-a-new-chair-adam-kilgour-on-hrvs-challenges-and-opportunities/

From our new Chairman, Adam Kilgour

First of all, I have worked with one of the best boards I have ever been involved with. The quality of all of the people in my time and their intent has been amazing. I am an activist board member. I believe board members need to roll up their sleeves and apply their specific expertise, not read a set of papers and go to a meeting a month. Under Dale’s leadership, the HRV board has been focused, cohesive and very active.

If this is true then we are dead and buried because we have gone backwards, so if that was with the best board possible (and executives - see later quote) then we were just postponing the inevitable

For the last 10 years, HRV has been living with legacy decisions that weren’t favourable for the sport and its revenues. As a board we feel like we have been fighting with our hands tied behind our backs. This year is the year we get to remake some of those deals, but we are doing it in a vastly different market to 10 years ago.

We were on the slippery slope more than 10yrs ago! We have not raced at Moonee Valley for 14yrs

I have empathy for all the people in this code who ask why we can’t just go back to racing at The Showgrounds or the Valley in front of big crowds? They generated so many fantastic memories, but it’s not going to happen. We’ve got to constantly ask who are we putting the show on for and who’s willing to pay for it?

How was it that MV crowds did not simply hike out to Melton LOL
Who are we putting on the show for - if it is only punters, most of whom don't give a rats about the horses - then why do it? So that horse lovers (and scoundrels - we have plenty of those too) can make a living doing something they love but which the audience/punters don't concern themselves with. Not exactly a meaningful career/life - reason for existence
What is our reason for existence? If we do not aspire to being legitimate entertainment again and a celebration of the standarbred horse

First, you need to attract quality executives. At HRV we have done that in spades despite the restrictions a Government statutory body has on remuneration, which forces us to offer well below market rates. But I think our top quality executives and HRV staff generally cop that because they love racing.

see earlier

The Victorian Government has been very generous to us over the last few years as we worked through Covid-19 and caught up on a lag in infrastructure spend, but that won’t last much longer. The message from the Victorian Treasury is very much live within your means. There are millions of household budgets around Australia that have had to make those adjustments in recent times too. We are not immune.

So we can say we were restricted by previous deals BUT we had the government bailing us out!