Charges laid in swabbing scandal

[Flashing Red]

Look everyone wants this resolved as quickly as possible and there are many different viewpoints on the topic. Let's try not to belittle others who think differently from us :)

[A BIT DUSTY]

And that was my point if the evidence was so daming would he not have been charged with all the others.

Tiny How do you know that he isn't the king pin in all of this and that they have gone after the small fry first? Maybe his breif is a lot bigger and therfore is taking a lot longer to finalize . and I'm not saying this is so but how do you know it's not

[Danno]

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by tiny http://www.harnessracingforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?p=14342#post14342)
And that was my point if the evidence was so daming would he not have been charged with all the others.

Abit dusty,Tiny How do you know that he isn't the king pin in all of this and that they have gone after the small fry first? Maybe his breif is a lot bigger and therfore is taking a lot longer to finalize . and I'm not saying this is so but how do you know it's not

My guess is Bentley didn't "spill his guts" and therefore evidence is a tad more difficult to accummulate.
He may or may not get nailed by NSW police but there is no doubt his "career" as a steward, in any form of racing is all over red rover!

Such a shame to lose him!!??

[tiny]

I really have no Idea how the police work. But I would have thought that you investigate untill you have enough evidence to charge someone and when you have enough evidence you go ahead and charge them. But I'm not the police.

I really look forward to the police saying there investigation is complete and we can put this dark chapter to bed and move on.

[CTG]

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by tiny http://www.harnessracingforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?p=14342#post14342)
And that was my point if the evidence was so daming would he not have been charged with all the others.

Abit dusty,Tiny How do you know that he isn't the king pin in all of this and that they have gone after the small fry first? Maybe his breif is a lot bigger and therfore is taking a lot longer to finalize . and I'm not saying this is so but how do you know it's not

My guess is Bentley didn't "spill his guts" and therefore evidence is a tad more difficult to accummulate.
He may or may not get nailed by NSW police but there is no doubt his "career" as a steward, in any form of racing is all over red rover!

Such a shame to lose him!!??

From what I have heard Bentley was apparently one of the best stewards going around and could play any of the participants as well as his colleagues off a break. If he did anything wrong and how he got caught I dont know. Im sure it will all come out.

[Danno]

From what I have heard Bentley was apparently one of the best stewards going around and could play any of the participants as well as his colleagues off a break. If he did anything wrong and how he got caught I dont know. Im sure it will all come out.

No doubt in the world Craig, he was playing everyone 'off a break".

I'm unsure of your knowledge of this case, but if you take the time to look into it, you'll find the young gentleman did not resign because he didn't like being a Steward anymore!

[David Summers]

Press release today regarding Greg Bennett http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=94654

[bbd]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=17355

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=17355

To save others checking results for these races.

July 7 Lombo Baccarat WON $1.90 fav driven by C.J.Fitzpatrick
July 1 Lombo Baccarat WON $1.70 fav driven by C.J.Fitzpatrick
May 17 Reluctant Dancer WON $1.50 fav driven by G.W.Bennett
May 12 Reluctant Dancer WON $1.70 fav driven by G.W.Bennett

May 12 The Open $5.50 FOURTH driven by G.W.Bennett

[aussiebreno]

Those dates July 1 and July 7 for Lombo Baccarat. After Lombo Baccarats win on May4 at Bankstown I also see one of Camerons friends has left a message over facebook thanking him for a tip, almost certaintly Lombo Baccarat as well.
I wonder...although he started $18 and I actually went and went and watched the replay a few weeks ago and didn't notice anything suss. But now I note the driver of the favourite was Sarina who led and pulled hard setting it up for a backmarker.

[triplev123]

From what I have heard Bentley was apparently one of the best stewards going around and could play any of the participants as well as his colleagues off a break. If he did anything wrong and how he got caught I dont know. Im sure it will all come out.


[VVV] My absolute, hand on heart, God's honest truth opinion of old mate...and this is one that's placing his guilt or innocence in the current carry-on totally aside...is that he was at least two people.
One of them was an apparently quite talented, intelligent and seemingly up and coming young Steward. I honestly thought that in short order he would have been given the big chair and said so a few times to a number of my friends. (towels please, need to wipe the egg off my face).
The other was a version you'd see now and again who was an at times too short with/rude to the participants IMO, to the point of being vindictive with it & he happened to strike me as being a bit of a control freak as well. I strongly suspect he was more than just a little intoxicated with the power he had, whatever that may have actually been or that he at least thought it to be.
He was to me a human version of horse that used to race at Harold Park years ago by the name of Royce Hanover.
Talented but erratic, on his night brilliant, on other nights simply dreadful...& similarly the problem was that you just never really knew which one was going to turn up.:confused:

[tiny]

Mate he's not. He's been interveiwed by the corn corneal a few times and each time they proved him squeaky clean. So forget it

[Trotter]

Why was my post deleted?? Was just asking a question

[The Rainmaker]

Why was my post deleted?? Was just asking a question

I've got it on good authority that a moderator on this site is super chummy with a bloke who has already been arreseted over the swabbing scandal in NSW and at least one more who is under invesitgation. So how can you have a say without posts being deleted? Conflict of interest much harnesslink?

[peteboss4]

Brendan, sorta agree with you as he was driving Russos horses, and his name is in the Paul O'Toole charge sheet list, you dont have to be too smart to work out the cheats from that. He would have had to be in the know, just like these others that are STILL ripping everyone else off on a near daily bases. But i do understand that their is a lot to process & patience is a virtue but it dosn't make it any eaiser when it seems that, to us, not a lot has been done since the 5 arrests & 2 stand downs.

[The Rainmaker]

Brendan, sorta agree with you as he was driving Russos horses, and his name is in the Paul O'Toole charge sheet list, you dont have to be too smart to work out the cheats from that. He would have had to be in the know, just like these others that are STILL ripping everyone else off on a near daily bases. But i do understand that their is a lot to process & patience is a virtue but it dosn't make it any eaiser when it seems that, to us, not a lot has been done since the 5 arrests & 2 stand downs.

And how about the blokes still participating at honest owners and trainers expense, and still juicing horses to stockpile money while they can because they know they are going to get life soon?

[mango]

I've got it on good authority that a moderator on this site is super chummy with a bloke who has already been arreseted over the swabbing scandal in NSW and at least one more who is under invesitgation. So how can you have a say without posts being deleted? Conflict of interest much harnesslink?

Hi Eric

I was the one who deleted the post and i have sent a private msg explaining why i did as such, feel free to private msg me as to who this moderator is.

[ringman]

And how about the blokes still participating at honest owners and trainers expense, and still juicing horses to stockpile money while they can because they know they are going to get life soon?

That is the new admin of HRNSW new pension funding program its called "looking after your mates in desperate times"

Why can some say anything and others get posts deleted for trivial reasons like "not being nice ?" rules are for all not just a select few.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Brendan, sorta agree with you as he was driving Russos horses, and his name is in the Paul O'Toole charge sheet list, you dont have to be too smart to work out the cheats from that. He would have had to be in the know, just like these others that are STILL ripping everyone else off on a near daily bases. But i do understand that their is a lot to process & patience is a virtue but it dosn't make it any eaiser when it seems that, to us, not a lot has been done since the 5 arrests & 2 stand downs.

Ok maths was never my strong point so please correct me if I am wrong.

Here is the list from my Memory

Paul O'Toole resigned (with a push) and arrested.
Matthew Bentley resigned (with a push).
Mark Vallender Warned off ..lifted on appeal.
Robbie Byrnes Warned off .. under appeal.
Cam Fitzpatrick arrested.. stood down.
Greg Bennett arrested.. stood down.
Michael Russo arrested.. stood down.
Dean Atkinson arrested .. stood down.
Greg Sarina .. stood down
Ben Sarina.. stood down.

That is nine people (it was 10 but Vallender is back for now) who already have been stopped participating in Harness Racing and we all know the investigation is a long way from finished.

The fact Vallender got back on appeal shows how careful you need to be as an administrator before you act.

Bill

[Dmoore]

Or what about actually charging people that you have evidence against and not be made to look a fool in court...... I thought that is how the legal system worked

[peteboss4]

Sorry Bill, thanks for the maths lesson i was always hopeless at that.
Its my mum whos adding up the cheating prizemoney won, thank goodness.

[BeckyBean]

I have been following the harness "swab scandal" since the early days and there are a lot of dots I just can't seem to join. For example where Mike Vallender fits into the script?? How can he be warned off and then reinstated so quickly....it doesn't make sense. From what I have read he got warned off for not handing over phone records but you seem to suggest Bill he is more involved? His name was mentioned from the start with the other steward but none have been charged by either harness racing or the police!!

[tiny]

The Sarina's have been charged with the relatively minor charge of giving false evidence. I don't realy think it is a great victory. It is not a coruption charge. But yes they have been stood down for now.

[tiny]

So far the only charged laid for coruption by hrnsw are:
Fitzpatric 2 charges of giving a monatary reward
Atkinson 2 charges of giving a monatary rewardand one of offering a monatary reward.

My point is if they suspect this relates to 400 races it should all be over with by about 2030.

[mightymo]

I stand to be corrected, but i dont think Vallender has any part in this. he was originally asked to produce phone records as he is a schoolmate and partner in a thoroughbred with Bentley and his dad. This was in the early stage of the investigation and HRNSW were still trying to see who was in fact involved.

Apparently he said he would give his records to the police but not HRNSW. Thats when he was warned off.

Subsequently, HRNSW have seen his records and sought fit to reinstate him as the records showed he was not involved.

[peteboss4]

My point is if they suspect this relates to 400 races it should all be over with by about 2030.[/QUOTE]

That line made me laugh.....

[Trotter]

Thanks for msg Dallas, I understand why you deleted it. Shits me tho you have people like him who are known in all harness racing circles too be involved. Let me turn back the clock too the other fri night at Newcastle. Lachlan jack beat a well backed patches ohoulihan, betting showed significant support for patches before support late for lauchlan. Patches hit the line head on chest mouth open, lauchlan wins at $15 rumor is sarina and trainer....... Pocketed over 35k rumors have it

[Thevoiceofreason]

I have been following the harness "swab scandal" since the early days and there are a lot of dots I just can't seem to join. For example where Mike Vallender fits into the script?? How can he be warned off and then reinstated so quickly....it doesn't make sense. From what I have read he got warned off for not handing over phone records but you seem to suggest Bill he is more involved? His name was mentioned from the start with the other steward but none have been charged by either harness racing or the police!!

No I am not suggesting anything one way or the other simply stating the facts.

Mr Vallender's initial refusal to hand over his records to HRNSW no doubt frustrated the investigation, I am not sure how far it has progressed since HRNSW have had the records, only time will tell.

Unlike others I try not to form strong opinions without all the the facts

[BeckyBean]

It would only frustrate an inquiry if he or other people who isn't hand over their records had done something wrong. What do phone records show anyway? Anyone can ring anyone! Either you have evidence against someone or you don't....clearly
Their isn't evidence against a lot of people that were named early on in the investigation!

[Thevoiceofreason]

It would only frustrate an inquiry if he or other people who isn't hand over their records had done something wrong. What do phone records show anyway? Anyone can ring anyone! Either you have evidence against someone or you don't....clearly
Their isn't evidence against a lot of people that were named early on in the investigation!

In that you may be right but they were never named as being suspects by HRNSW it was just harness rumor mill it full production.

[peteboss4]

I think you are correct with the rumor mill BUT once the charge sheet from O'toole was published as you said Bill it became more clear .

[ringman]

Yes but under the rules he must hand over phone records so they can investigate because he is a registered person.
Could you imagine what would happen if a bookie decided to not hand over his books...... Licence suspended:eek:

[Dmoore]

Yes but under the rules he must hand over phone records so they can investigate because he is a registered person.
Could you imagine what would happen if a bookie decided to not hand over his books...... Licence suspended:eek:

I believe the court documents show he handed his records into nsw police as soon as they became available! Can you blame him or anyone else for not handing over their records to hrnsw??? I wouldn't trust them with your money

[Thevoiceofreason]

I believe the court documents show he handed his records into nsw police as soon as they became available! Can you blame him or anyone else for not handing over their records to hrnsw??? I wouldn't trust them with your money

Point being he was not asked to hand over his money only records, to my understanding the warning off was found to have been the appropriate action because the offence was proven. It was only lifted when the records were provided.

[Dmoore]

No champ point being why would anyone trust hrnsw with their private records....I wouldn't trust them with YOUR money!!!

[Thevoiceofreason]

No champ point being why would anyone trust hrnsw with their private records....I wouldn't trust them with YOUR money!!!

As is your usual rant at the controlling body can you please provide me with one example of HRNSW ever doing anything that would have been considered even slightly inappropriate with the records provided by someone in any inquiry or investigation.

If they had in the past stuffed up by private documents becoming public, yes you might have a point but from my memory this is not the case which would indicate the can in fact be trusted.

[Stonie]

Thanks for msg Dallas, I understand why you deleted it. Shits me tho you have people like him who are known in all harness racing circles too be involved. Let me turn back the clock too the other fri night at Newcastle. Lachlan jack beat a well backed patches ohoulihan, betting showed significant support for patches before support late for lauchlan. Patches hit the line head on chest mouth open, lauchlan wins at $15 rumor is sarina and trainer....... Pocketed over 35k rumors have it

I was on course that night Brendan and it was an absolute setup. 2 very happy and smug drivers.
Check out the owners of the winner as well. It will become a little clearer as well.
All involved up to their eyeballs.

[Chariots]

I have followed this thread with interest and it is obvious that amongst the posters we have:

Defenders of the indefensible
Those that have an inherent resentment of authority
Those that are crying for blood and do not acknowledge that there is a process that must be followed or natural justice laws come into play.
Those with an axe to grind or a giant chip on their shoulder
A small number of posters who can see the bigger picture and are prepared to allow those running the inquiry to take their time to get it right.

I had no intention of posting until l read the comments about the Newcastle race. I do not follow Nsw Harness Racing closely so I had a look at the replay of the race in a question. Unles I am missing something I cannot see what more the driver on the short price favorite could have done other than get out and carry it.

[A BIT DUSTY]

I have followed this thread with interest and it is obvious that amongst the posters we have:

Defenders of the indefensible
Those that have an inherent resentment of authority
Those that are crying for blood and do not acknowledge that there is a process that must be followed or natural justice laws come into play.
Those with an axe to grind or a giant chip on their shoulder
A small number of posters who can see the bigger picture and are prepared to allow those running the inquiry to take their time to get it right.

I had no intention of posting until l read the comments about the Newcastle race. I do not follow Nsw Harness Racing closely so I had a look at the replay of the race in a question. Unles I am missing something I cannot see what more the driver on the short price favorite could have done other than get out and carry it.

1000 % correct great post .

[Trotter]

Ray your not going too see a rort with the "kill horse"s driver laying out the cart too hold it back.. Yes Ben looks too be trying but watch reins and horses head and mouth. Reins tight bit right up in his mouth horses head on his chest mouth open.

[A BIT DUSTY]

Thanks for msg Dallas, I understand why you deleted it. Shits me tho you have people like him who are known in all harness racing circles too be involved. Let me turn back the clock too the other fri night at Newcastle. Lachlan jack beat a well backed patches ohoulihan, betting showed significant support for patches before support late for lauchlan. Patches hit the line head on chest mouth open, lauchlan wins at $15 rumor is sarina and trainer....... Pocketed over 35k rumors have it

Trotter I have just watched that race again and if patches ohoulihan hits the line with mouth wide open and head on his chest then I will walk 10 laps around Menangle next Miracle Mile night buck naked (and that wouldn't be a pretty sight) . Mate I watched that race live and smelt a rat when Sarina wouldn't hand the chair up to young Harding on Trittons horse,
I thought he was running cover for the stablemate and actually said that to my missus during the race.
To me at the time I thought it was a case of the fav being a little under done ( and that's why Sarina would be running cover ) and the longer price stablemate getting up .
If your imfo about the plonk coming off is accurate then it was a masterful coupe ,but as I said earlier IMO the leader was under the bat and flat chat. But that is just my opinion.

cheers Denny

[Trotter]

There all grubs Denny. Was actually good too see someone not handing up too a triton horse. I'm sick too death of him having 3 or so horses in a race and team driving.

[Maorisidol]

I have followed this thread with interest and it is obvious that amongst the posters we have:

Defenders of the indefensible
Those that have an inherent resentment of authority
Those that are crying for blood and do not acknowledge that there is a process that must be followed or natural justice laws come into play.
Those with an axe to grind or a giant chip on their shoulder
A small number of posters who can see the bigger picture and are prepared to allow those running the inquiry to take their time to get it right.

I had no intention of posting until l read the comments about the Newcastle race. I do not follow Nsw Harness Racing closely so I had a look at the replay of the race in a question. Unles I am missing something I cannot see what more the driver on the short price favorite could have done other than get out and carry it.

Awesome first post Ray u came flying out of the barrier, dominated the race and put all and sundry in their box, i would love to put names to each of your descriptions but some people may get a little too offended...

Trotter, r u serious when u say " Reins tight bit right up in his mouth horses head on his chest mouth open."?
Mate i wasnt on track, but i have watched the replay and particularly the last 150m a few times and that horses reigns were slack, he was being driven out for the most of the straight, the earplugs were pulled at the top of the straight, his head was nowhere near his chest at the finish, it was stretched out as in flat out speed, his mouth was not open, and as for "bit right up in his mouth" (as opposed to NOT right up in his mouth) thats a ripper.

[A BIT DUSTY]

Awesome first post Ray u came flying out of the barrier, dominated the race and put all and sundry in their box, i would love to put names to each of your descriptions but some people may get a little too offended...

Trotter, r u serious when u say " Reins tight bit right up in his mouth horses head on his chest mouth open."?
Mate i wasnt on track, but i have watched the replay and particularly the last 150m a few times and that horses reigns were slack, he was being driven out for the most of the straight, the earplugs were pulled at the top of the straight, his head was nowhere near his chest at the finish, it was stretched out as in flat out speed, his mouth was not open, and as for "bit right up in his mouth" (as opposed to NOT right up in his mouth) thats a ripper.



Does this mean I'm out of doing my nudy run ???????????? lol

[A BIT DUSTY]

There all grubs Denny. Was actually good too see someone not handing up too a triton horse. I'm sick too death of him having 3 or so horses in a race and team driving.

WOH there is a 100 post thread in that statement.

[Thevoiceofreason]

[/B]


Does this mean I'm out of doing my nudy run ???????????? lol

I hope so we are trying to attract crowds back to the trots not scar them for life.

[triplev123]

Ray your not going too see a rort with the "kill horse"s driver laying out the cart too hold it back.. Yes Ben looks too be trying but watch reins and horses head and mouth. Reins tight bit right up in his mouth horses head on his chest mouth open.

[VVV] I'm no wrap for old mate by any stretch of the imagination...but that's just not right Brendan.
I agree with Denny & Maori's. The horse looks to have been given every chance.
The drive on Beef City Beau at Menangle back in June(?) however, that was another story. But, I disgress. :rolleyes:

[Messenger]

It is always 'uncomfortable' when a $15 stablemate beats an Evens Fav. Reese looks like he knew he had his Fav covered. It would not have hurt appearances for Sarina to have used the persuader more than twice - his submission was in stark contrast to Proctor giving LILI plenty when it had 3rd shot to bits but was never going to do any better than that

[ringman]

We wont have to put up with Sarina for a while soon so thats a positive move forward

[tiny]

I don't know ringman. So far the Sarina's have only been charged with the minor offence of giving falce evidence. No charges of coruption.

[Trotter]

I guarantee everyone that gets in trouble over this scandal gets off in appeal. Look at the sarinas charge, nothing there. They will be backkkkkkkk

[Airds]

If their is no EVIDENCE then so they should be allowed back, they should never have been stood down without any solid EVIDENCE,I am sure if their was EVIDENCE the police would have knocked on their door. HRNSW should let the police run the whole investigation and only deal with the people the police find evidence on under their rules. You talk about the appeal process , well funny that if the court lets them off on appeal does that not emphasise that their is NO EVIDENCE and at least the judge is qualified and has a degree behind them and knows the LAW, innocent until proven guilty with evidence not like HRNSW want to run guilty until you prove your innocent with no evidence. Keep going like this and their won't be anyone left in the industry,Draw a line in the sand and move forward HRNSW, spend your energy and money on promoting the sport and encouraging people to own horses instead of constantly talking about the scandal and attacking the current industry participants, and if their is evidence that a participant has done something wrong then deal with them in a professional manner or even better let the police deal with them,look At the people attending the races almost zero, no general public ,owners,breeders,spectators,punters just trainers and drivers

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

If their is no EVIDENCE then so they should be allowed back, they should never have been stood down without any solid EVIDENCE,I am sure if their was EVIDENCE the police would have knocked on their door. HRNSW should let the police run the whole investigation and only deal with the people the police find evidence on under their rules. You talk about the appeal process , well funny that if the court lets them off on appeal does that not emphasise that their is NO EVIDENCE and at least the judge is qualified and has a degree behind them and knows the LAW, innocent until proven guilty with evidence not like HRNSW want to run guilty until you prove your innocent with no evidence. Keep going like this and their won't be anyone left in the industry,Draw a line in the sand and move forward HRNSW, spend your energy and money on promoting the sport and encouraging people to own horses instead of constantly talking about the scandal and attacking the current industry participants, and if their is evidence that a participant has done something wrong then deal with them in a professional manner or even better let the police deal with them,look At the people attending the races almost zero, no general public ,owners,breeders,spectators,punters just trainers and drivers

John if there was No EVIDENCE do you really think they would be stood down.

At the very least the Stipes have EVIDENCE that they LIED , and that my friend is enough to stand them down.
I would think when the EVIDENCE about the 12 races they won during the FREE PASS period is revealed they will get their TRUE penalty

[Airds]

Ron, I said "IF" their is no evidence they should be allowed back! As for the 12 races you mention again "IF" their is evidence I am sure they will be penalised accordingly and/or receive a knock on the door from the strike force

[aussiebreno]

Ron, I said "IF" their is no evidence they should be allowed back!
You were trying to say there is no evidence. "I am sure if there was evidence the police would have knocked on their door" pretty much infers that.

[tiny]

The problem for me is while a small group are stood down a much larger group still participate freely.

The other annoying thing is the fools that were led around by the nose by the smell of money are gone. Those that dangle the carrots remain.

This investigation is going nowhere and while this is the case harness racing moves backwards by the day. It has to be brought to a head soon and as sad as it is accept that most of the crooks got away with it and just put measures in place such as the swabbing of all winners to ensure this can never happin again.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Some News from RacingNSW on a name we all know.


Friday, 6 January 2012
Stewards Inquiry Into Bag Of Nickels
The Stewards today held inquiries into the conduct of Mr Matthew Bentley in the mounting enclosure following the running of Race 8 - $50K TAB First 4 Jackpot Handicap at the Rosehill Gardens race meeting conducted on 26 December 2012 and further into the interests/shares held in the racehorse Bag Of Nickels which was successful in that event..
Evidence today was taken from Mr Matthew Bentley, Mr Mark Vallender lessor and managing lessee of Bag Of Nickels, part lessee and trainer Mr David Vandyke and Mr Peter Bentley a registered lessee of Bag Of Nickels. Further evidence was provided by Journalists Mr Chris Roots and Mr Warwick Barr (by teleconference). Statements were also tendered from journalists Mr Ray Thomas, Mr Clinton Payne and Mr Dallas Baker.
Mr Matthew Bentley pleaded guilty to a charge under AR175(q) of improper conduct in respect to comments he directed towards journalist Mr Chris Roots whilst present in the mounting enclosure. Mr Bentley was fined the sum of $500 and advised of his rights of appeal.
In respect to the consideration of the evidence regarding the interests/shares held in Bag Of Nickels Stewards adjourned the matter to give consideration to the large volume of evidence tendered at the inquiry. Stewards ruled that Bag Of Nickels be permitted to start at the Warwick Farm race meeting conducted 7 January 2011 whilst they give consideration to the evidence however ruled that any prizemoney won by Bag Of Nickels be held in trust until such time as the matter is determined.
M F Van Gestel
Deputy Chairman of Stewards

[Dmoore]

Some News from RacingNSW on a name we all know.


Friday, 6 January 2012
Stewards Inquiry Into Bag Of Nickels
The Stewards today held inquiries into the conduct of Mr Matthew Bentley in the mounting enclosure following the running of Race 8 - $50K TAB First 4 Jackpot Handicap at the Rosehill Gardens race meeting conducted on 26 December 2012 and further into the interests/shares held in the racehorse Bag Of Nickels which was successful in that event..
Evidence today was taken from Mr Matthew Bentley, Mr Mark Vallender lessor and managing lessee of Bag Of Nickels, part lessee and trainer Mr David Vandyke and Mr Peter Bentley a registered lessee of Bag Of Nickels. Further evidence was provided by Journalists Mr Chris Roots and Mr Warwick Barr (by teleconference). Statements were also tendered from journalists Mr Ray Thomas, Mr Clinton Payne and Mr Dallas Baker.
Mr Matthew Bentley pleaded guilty to a charge under AR175(q) of improper conduct in respect to comments he directed towards journalist Mr Chris Roots whilst present in the mounting enclosure. Mr Bentley was fined the sum of $500 and advised of his rights of appeal.
In respect to the consideration of the evidence regarding the interests/shares held in Bag Of Nickels Stewards adjourned the matter to give consideration to the large volume of evidence tendered at the inquiry. Stewards ruled that Bag Of Nickels be permitted to start at the Warwick Farm race meeting conducted 7 January 2011 whilst they give consideration to the evidence however ruled that any prizemoney won by Bag Of Nickels be held in trust until such time as the matter is determined.
M F Van Gestel
Deputy Chairman of Stewards

I would pay $500 to give Chris Roots a spray every day of the week...... In the "no good" books his name is top of the list!!!

[Thevoiceofreason]

I would pay $500 to give Chris Roots a spray every day of the week...... In the "no good" books his name is top of the list!!!

In relation to this Harness Racing Scandal, I can only recall him reporting the facts ...don't shoot the messenger they say.

[triplev123]

I would pay $500 to give Chris Roots a spray every day of the week...... In the "no good" books his name is top of the list!!!

[VVV] I certainly haven't liked what we've all been reading Doug...but that's not because it wasn't true. I'd much rather he be writing about better things, no doubt we all would, but at no stage can I recall him being wrong or flying loose with the facts.
All things considered I think Chris has probably gone relatively easy on it all. He could have so easily gone harder, much, much harder. I've seen other journos that have had a whole lot less to talk about make a whole lot more of a fuss.

[zipzap]

Chris has a job to do and all he did was report the facts, which is better than some others have done in the past.

[triplev123]

Chris has a job to do and all he did was report the facts, which is better than some others have done in the past.

[VVV] Couldn't agree more.

[Amiacar]

I have followed Harnessgate with interest. Chris Roots has done nothing but bag the sport and everyone in it. I have never once read a positive article he has written. He is sour on the world. And then Roots has the hide to go and cry when people give him a spray....please.....grow up!!! At least other reporters like B. Zerafa have tried to find some positives to come out of it.

[Thevoiceofreason]

I have followed Harnessgate with interest. Chris Roots has done nothing but bag the sport and everyone in it. I have never once read a positive article he has written. He is sour on the world. And then Roots has the hide to go and cry when people give him a spray....please.....grow up!!! At least other reporters like B. Zerafa have tried to find some positives to come out of it.

Your comments on Chris Roots are total rubbish if any honest journalist can pit a positive spin on the current scandal they are not reporting the facts there in the short term no positives.

In relation to you comments on Zerafa please attach a link to the so called article of support in relation to the scandal... I must have missed it.

[triplev123]

I LOVE Harness Racing, I LOVE the horses and for the most part :p, the people.
I'll always come out swinging whenever I think someone has bagged Harness Racing unfairly in the Press or on Radio or wherever but to date, from all I've read, Chris Roots has done nothing more nor less than his job and especially so given the absolutely bloody dreadful nature of the subject at hand surely nobody can hold that against him?
I certainly don't feel personally offended by any of his writings to date. I'm disappointed that's the Press we get at the moment but the guy can't get pinched for telling the truth.

[triplev123]

Damaging bribery charges reach the test

Chris Roots

January 8, 2012

Dean Atkinson and Greg and Ben Sarina will become the first licensees to front the special stewards panel inquiring into alleged corruption in the sport in the NSW Industrial Relations Court on Thursday. This is the next step in cleaning up the sport. Its image is at its lowest due to allegations of stewards being paid not to drug-test horses in a period of more than 18 months. Harness Racing NSW regulatory manager Reid Sanders will be acting as the prosecutor, presenting a large brief of evidence in each of the cases to the panel of Justice Wayne Haylen, former steward Des Gleeson and Racing NSW chief steward Ray Murrihy. ‘‘We have worked right through the Christmas period compiling evidence and getting the brief ready for this week,’’ Sanders said. ‘‘It is still an ongoing investigation and we are still interviewing people of interest and there could be more charges to come [from Harness Racing NSW]. It is a difficult matter because of the criminal charges that are also involved, but we are determined to get it right.’’

[David Summers]

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=94992

[tiny]

Does anyone know if Thursday's hearings are open hearings. I'm in Sydney this week and was thinking of dropping in to watch the precedings.

[tiny]

As for russo I think this is pretty weak. With 12 months the going rate for a positive. But remove your horse so it can't be swabbed gets 9 months I think is just soft. Should be like DUI the punishment for refusing the test is greater than the offence.

[triplev123]

There's an idea. Take some sandwiches, a nice thermos of tea (hopefully a Tartan number) and a newspaper & just make yourself right at home Andy.
Similarly, I'm thinking of attending the 'Big Day Out' at The Downing Centre in February.
They've a very nice cafe there, just on your right as you enter. Friendly staff, good coffee & they also make great blueberry muffins. What more could you ask for?
I believe Chris Murphy's tan is even more impressive in person than it is on TV. ;)

[Greg Hando]

I see Dean Atkiinson i advertising agistment available

[zipzap]

Not a good start for HRNSW at the enquiry

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/trainer-fears-for-familys-safety-inquiry-told-20120112-1pxj4.html

[tiny]

Agreed not a great start when it is labeled farcical by the media on day one. Just prey the police can get this sorted because it's not looking great for hrnsw.

[Messenger]

Sheez! If they cannot link O'Toole to that phone number we most likely have a shambles

[The Rainmaker]

So we have Atkinson pleading guilty to bribing former steward M. Bentley who has not even been charged by NSW Police or faced any action from HRNSW other than tending his resignation back in August.

Then we have Greg and Ben Sarina making numerous calls to a phone number that they can only identify belongs to a person named Nathan Miles, with no evidence that Paul O'Toole owned or used that particular phone number.

5 months in the making and this is the best the HRNSW special investigation panel can do? Dear god.

[Thevoiceofreason]

So we have Atkinson pleading guilty to bribing former steward M. Bentley who has not even been charged by NSW Police or faced any action from HRNSW other than tending his resignation back in August.

Then we have Greg and Ben Sarina making numerous calls to a phone number that they can only identify belongs to a person named Nathan Miles, with no evidence that Paul O'Toole owned or used that particular phone number.

5 months in the making and this is the best the HRNSW special investigation panel can do? Dear god.

Did you people not read the press coverage the evidence relied upon by HRNSW in relation to the user of the phone was supplied to HRNSW by the police task force... one would presume this is the same evidence the police intend to rely upon in there upcoming prosecution of Paul O'Toole.

Judge Haylan said at this stage he was not convinced by this evidence and an adjournment was given, if the judge in the court case is also not convinced it is not the HRNSW investigation under threat but the whole case appears to be crumbling.

[Chariots]

Many have suggested that this should be left to the police to handle and it appears that is what the HRNSW investigative panel have done in relation to phone records. Amazing how in evidence despite making 70 calls to the number in question in 12 months Sarina did not know the owner of the number.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/superracing/harness-racing-trainer-dean-atkinson-pleads-guilty-to-bribing-steward-mathew-bentley/story-fn67m7qu-1226243046107

[tiny]

Hi VOR
I would just like to know your thoughts about the use of a judge or retired judge in all major stewards inquires. I personally believe that the use of stewards acting as prosecution and then judging there own case serves harness racing well on race day when a result needs to be achieved by the start of the next race.

A person judging there own procicution IMO is always going to have some biased. I ask this question basically because hrnsw stewards have had a fairly ordinary record as far as appeals and think this may well be a reflection of stewards believing they have proved a case when in reality they haven't and it is subsequently lost on apeal.

I personally like the idea basicly because it forced the stewards to get it right the first time and not loose on appeal. I would love to hear your thoughts though. I imagine judges or retired judges don't come cheap but I think the cost would be worth if it saw less cases lost on apeal particularly the ones that shouldn't be lost.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Tiny

I can not add much to your post because in my view you have covered all of the relevant points.

There is no doubt that the cost structure increases greatly when you have to use legal people.

RacingNSW have a slightly different appeals process where there is a first level of appeal where although the person in charge of the appeal is a legally trained he is also very experienced in the racing industry.

This has a three fold effect at appeal level it gives both the stewards and the appellant a chance to put there case to someone with an understanding of the sport If you like a bit like the NRL tribunal.

If the appeal is dismissed it makes it a little harder for it then to be overturned at the next appeal level because two courts if you like have confirmed the finding of guilt. This also means lees gallops cases actually get to the racing appeals tribunal, all in all a better system.

You may well be interested to know the dogs stewards who also have the same system as Harness with no first appeal have a similar record as the trot stewards at the racing Appeals Tribunal.

I am not sure if you have ever taken the time to read some of the appeal findings in NSW under some of the previous judges but it will make you laugh.

[tiny]

Thanks VOR
I had never taken much interest in regards to regulatory matters in harness racing until the swab scandal.
The former chief steward did some very good work in regards to uncovering a shocking case of race fixing only to have the case lost on appeal. IMO it was a poor judgement by the stewards on there own evidence. I believe had someone independent to this case was appointed more attention to detail may well have been taken.

Also the two trainers that got disqualifications last year on prima facie swabs was not good law and had ever case been appealed they would have been lost a appeal.

Also the case yesterday had a finding of guilt been found at the initial stewards inquiry this case may well too have been lost on apeal. Something I am Glad didn't happin thanks to the judge precluding over the case.

I think if harness racing want to make some changes to the regulation of harness racing post swab scandal this will be a great place to start. Independent judges at major stewards inquires bring it on.

Stewards judging there own procicutions will always be biest and result in cases where convictions should stick being lost on appeal when they shouldn't.

[tiny]

The point I'm trying to make and didn't make that well is:
Some people who IMO should be on the side lines aren't because the cases are lost on appeal because of bad law at the initial stewards inquires.

Others are spending long stints on the side lines when IMO they shouldn't be because of bad law at stewards inquires.

It is important they get this right because a lack if public confidants in the sport stems from these very issue.

[zipzap]

Did you people not read the press coverage the evidence relied upon by HRNSW in relation to the user of the phone was supplied to HRNSW by the police task force... one would presume this is the same evidence the police intend to rely upon in there upcoming prosecution of Paul O'Toole.

Judge Haylan said at this stage he was not convinced by this evidence and an adjournment was given, if the judge in the court case is also not convinced it is not the HRNSW investigation under threat but the whole case appears to be crumbling.

Sanders argued that evidence gathered by police Strike Force Tairora proved the number was being used by O'Toole.

[peteboss4]

Atkinson gets 10 years
http://www.harness.org.au/images/ico-doc.gif31 Jan - Special Stewards Panel - Decision Mr Dean Atkinson (http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=17593)
The Special Stewards Panel set up by HRNSW to inquire into and investigate matters pertaining to the current HRNSW investigation into alleged corrupt and improper practices within the NSW harness industry has handed down its decision regarding the three (3) charges issued against licensed trainer Mr...
Read More (http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=17593)

[Stonie]

Dean Atkinson pleaded guilty........so hopefully the others get double.

[TSW]

Has there been any further progress to this scandal or have the investigators hit a brick wall? There is usually a whisper about any investigations or probes occurring but nothing has been mentioned by anyone, anywhere. It feels like it has been thrown into the too hard basket or there is nothing new to report and the only prosecutions that will happen are the ones we all know about. It will be good if that's the entire scope of the scandal but there still has to be a Mr Big that was pushing all the buttons that hasn't been charged as yet.

[aussiebreno]

6 days is a massive amount of time to wait.........not.

[TSW]

6 days is a massive amount of time to wait.........not.
. I asked if any further investigations have uncovered anymore that we didn't know already.
.

[aussiebreno]

Gen Y, short attention span. Young ones these days, back in my day it was a lot different with respect for elders. (Tounge in cheek - I finished high school only in recent years)

To answer your question, I'm sure the well hasn't dried up just yet.

[TSW]

Hopefully he will transfer to Collingwood or Geelong one day and then it may be fortunate. I don't really follow the AFL.

[peteboss4]

just posted this in general chat in reply to Dan but posting it here as well......I don't care what anyone thinks because its THE TRUTH

Yes i would have left too & probably will .I have always enjoyed the sport but not so much now. Went back & had a look there has been 23 positives in a relative short period , we have EPO,Meth, arsenic, bute,testosterone (that's a steroid),ibuprofen,& your good old bicarb etc. Its a disgrace & do any of these cheats care who they are ripping off.......NO, THEY DO NOT...You have guys with POSITIVES racing in Hunter Cups & Interdoms.... that in itself is WRONG.......You have guys listed on the O'Toole charge sheet STILL winning races......these grubs run this sport, NOT the stewards or the CEO..... Sam need to step up and put into place lengthy sentences for cheats & stick to it....eg 12 mts bi carb, 5years anything else as there is no real DESCENT penalty for these cheats. AND THESE CASES NEED TO BE DELT WITH QUICKLY. And mark my words some named in the O'Toole case will get away with it! Things need to change NOW before its too late. Obviously I'm Pissed off big time!

[p plater]

Well said Peter.
From what I hear at the tracks, your point about those named in the O'Toole report still winning races, is the single most damaging thing within the Industry at the moment.
Like you the clean Trainers and Drivers are Pissed off and I get the feeling many would give it away if they could but most have no other trades to fall back on.
Time to act boys.........More damage done each week

[barney]

What i was told yesterday that even the good guys are now having to resort to other means to compete.I believe one cleanskin was recently done for co2 trying to compete.

[peteboss4]

What i was told yesterday that even the good guys are now having to resort to other means to compete.I believe one cleanskin was recently done for co2 trying to compete.

Told that too, sad isn't it that he felt he had to lower himself to the SCUM level but then again he had a choice, they will get caught..........

[The Rainmaker]

I had a good source tell me back in August when this first came to light a couple of players involved in this scandal, sure enough they were the ones charged in November. Then just before Xmas time I was told another 2 players were due to be stood down, one whos horses were in rare "2010" form last night and ripped over 60k prizemoney from honest participants on last nights efforts alone and another whos name was branded about in the media for receiving a warning letter back in August, and still nothing. The boys seem to have gone quiet on this...... where are you Sam?

[clumsy]

This is so widespread cheats are being caught in all racing districts, and in most cases are not receiving big enough disqualifications to discourage them. They just change their horses over to a relative and continue to train the horses on the same property. Refuse to take a swab and get a minimum disqualification, as has happened with two trainers recently. Untill the authority get serious the industry will only detoriate further.

[peteboss4]

I had a good source tell me back in August when this first came to light a couple of players involved in this scandal, sure enough they were the ones charged in November. Then just before Xmas time I was told another 2 players were due to be stood down, one whos horses were in rare "2010" form last night and ripped over 60k prizemoney from honest participants on last nights efforts alone and another whos name was branded about in the media for receiving a warning letter back in August, and still nothing. The boys seem to have gone quiet on this...... where are you Sam?

I also heard that some will get away with the drug/betting scandal as they were smarter than others! Found that hard to believe but apparently true.

[tiny]

There will be more on this come out after next Fridays court cases of Bennett and O'toole. But the above mentioned seemed to be covered in I thick layer of Teflon and nothing will stick.

As for the swabs it just showes what complete joke regulation of harness racing has become. Trainers know they are gone but can have cases put off for long periods never seen before.

I accept the wheels of justice turn slowly. But a HRNSW they have all but stopped.

[peteboss4]

There will be more on this come out after next Fridays court cases of Bennett and O'toole. But the above mentioned seemed to be covered in I thick layer of Teflon and nothing will stick.

As for the swabs it just showes what complete joke regulation of harness racing has become. Trainers know they are gone but can have cases put off for long periods never seen before.

I accept the wheels of justice turn slowly. But a HRNSW they have all but stopped.


You may be correct Tiny
As for the swabs you are correct IT IS A JOKE.
The CEO needs to implement a NEW rule to speed up the swab process, he can do this because he is the BOSS.

[barney]

There will be more on this come out after next Fridays court cases of Bennett and O'toole. But the above mentioned seemed to be covered in I thick layer of Teflon and nothing will stick.

As for the swabs it just showes what complete joke regulation of harness racing has become. Trainers know they are gone but can have cases put off for long periods never seen before.


I accept the wheels of justice turn slowly. But a HRNSW they have all but stopped.

Victoria is very slow with inquiries etc only found out about the Jack one by contacting Harness board and asking.

[Mighty Atom]

Agree with you totally Peter.

[trotsfan]

This is so widespread cheats are being caught in all racing districts, and in most cases are not receiving big enough disqualifications to discourage them. They just change their horses over to a relative and continue to train the horses on the same property. Refuse to take a swab and get a minimum disqualification, as has happened with two trainers recently. Untill the authority get serious the industry will only detoriate further.

Clumsy, I have watched you bad mouth a certain trainer in the area before, namingly david kennedy and here you go again. Just cant help yourself.
Doesnt take much to look at some facts. He would be the most swabbed trainer in the Riverina and yes he got a positive admitted to giving the supplement to another horse and there might of been some form of contemination. At albury a horse wins dave waits around for ever for the stewards to come swab, after hearing he lost the race on protest and still no one showing up to take the swab her leaves. Minimum suspension? in the last 2 years i expect he would of had atleast 150 pre or post race swabs and had 1 positive, hes been in the industry for 30 years and thats his first one, 3 months is still rather hefty considering others were getting reprimands not that long ago.
Now lets look you yourself, well i assume shaun snudden the registed trainer in the riverina area is some relation. Stylishgate personal MR of 2.08 and 2.07.4 in his 2 runs before today. First up for shauns stable set alight and was making good ground unlucky to be beat (was backed a fair bit).. Billy Branach 2.07(1700) the start before joining the stable first run personal mile rate of 1.58 that is massive improvement..... not saying surgesting any wrong doings simply want to show that it doesnt always mean something is dodgy just cause a horse improves and that you should know facts before you throw statements around,

[peteboss4]

[QUOTE=tiny;16880]There will be more on this come out after next Fridays court cases of Bennett and O'toole. But the above mentioned seemed to be covered in I thick layer of Teflon and nothing will stick.



Tiny is the teflon because they worked their rorting through others ??????

[peteboss4]

Clumsy, I have watched you bad mouth a certain trainer in the area before, namingly david kennedy and here you go again. Just cant help yourself.
Doesnt take much to look at some facts. He would be the most swabbed trainer in the Riverina and yes he got a positive admitted to giving the supplement to another horse and there might of been some form of contemination. At albury a horse wins dave waits around for ever for the stewards to come swab, after hearing he lost the race on protest and still no one showing up to take the swab her leaves. Minimum suspension? in the last 2 years i expect he would of had atleast 150 pre or post race swabs and had 1 positive, hes been in the industry for 30 years and thats his first one, 3 months is still rather hefty considering others were getting reprimands not that long ago.
Now lets look you yourself, well i assume shaun snudden the registed trainer in the riverina area is some relation. Stylishgate personal MR of 2.08 and 2.07.4 in his 2 runs before today. First up for shauns stable set alight and was making good ground unlucky to be beat (was backed a fair bit).. Billy Branach 2.07(1700) the start before joining the stable first run personal mile rate of 1.58 that is massive improvement..... not saying surgesting any wrong doings simply want to show that it doesnt always mean something is dodgy just cause a horse improves and that you should know facts before you throw statements around,

Talk about a horse IMPROVING...........
Parkes....race 5
Strong Sapphire
form last 5 races...8 8 6 4 6
wins by 29.3mtrs
runs 1.55.9 for the mile
??????????????????????

[clumsy]

Clumsy, I have watched you bad mouth a certain trainer in the area before, namingly david kennedy and here you go again. Just cant help yourself.
Doesnt take much to look at some facts. He would be the most swabbed trainer in the Riverina and yes he got a positive admitted to giving the supplement to another horse and there might of been some form of contemination. At albury a horse wins dave waits around for ever for the stewards to come swab, after hearing he lost the race on protest and still no one showing up to take the swab her leaves. Minimum suspension? in the last 2 years i expect he would of had atleast 150 pre or post race swabs and had 1 positive, hes been in the industry for 30 years and thats his first one, 3 months is still rather hefty considering others were getting reprimands not that long ago.
Now lets look you yourself, well i assume shaun snudden the registed trainer in the riverina area is some relation. Stylishgate personal MR of 2.08 and 2.07.4 in his 2 runs before today. First up for shauns stable set alight and was making good ground unlucky to be beat (was backed a fair bit).. Billy Branach 2.07(1700) the start before joining the stable first run personal mile rate of 1.58 that is massive improvement..... not saying surgesting any wrong doings simply want to show that it doesnt always mean something is dodgy just cause a horse improves Waggaand that you should know facts before you throw statements around,
We were disqualified from a race at Wagga for going inside the pegs and were swabbed after the race. We also had a winner swabbed 2 hours after a race at Wagga. Most of our winners are swabbed and plenty of our starters are pre race swabbed, we have also had two steward inspections on our stables over the past twelve months. All of these things are stewards doing their job and are nothing to be afraid of if you are doing the right thing. As for form reversals, yes Shaun has had to explain a few of those.
As for my post which part of it is not the truth or are you a bit sensitive about the truth.

[trotsfan]

We were disqualified from a race at Wagga for going inside the pegs and were swabbed after the race. We also had a winner swabbed 2 hours after a race at Wagga. Most of our winners are swabbed and plenty of our starters are pre race swabbed, we have also had two steward inspections on our stables over the past twelve months. All of these things are stewards doing their job and are nothing to be afraid of if you are doing the right thing. As for form reversals, yes Shaun has had to explain a few of those.
As for my post which part of it is not the truth or are you a bit sensitive about the truth.

I think you will find that the trainer you continually attack has had more then his fair share of inspections, delayed swabs and questions over form reversals, i just wanted to point out they are possible and you dont need to attack someone who has done alot for harness racing in the riverina (one of the biggest things is nominating horses at the request of hrnsw so that races hold up)

[trotsfan]

Talk about a horse IMPROVING...........
Parkes....race 5
Strong Sapphire
form last 5 races...8 8 6 4 6
wins by 29.3mtrs
runs 1.55.9 for the mile
??????????????????????

seen that and the weirdest thing was he was backed rather heavily for what his form surgests

[broncobrad]

Not one to just accept an improved performance without an inquiry, I can't see anything posted just yet by the stewards panel. Just a quick check on Strong Sapphires racing performances. From a total of 97 lifetime starts her record reveals 20 overall wins. However the mare has had 20 starts for 11 wins, four placings and a D. at the Parkes showgrounds. There is definitely something in the water at that track that the stable should start bottling. Her most dominant win and an unbelievable mile rate on the tight circuit.

[remington]

Clumsy, I have watched you bad mouth a certain trainer in the area before, namingly david kennedy and here you go again. Just cant help yourself.
Doesnt take much to look at some facts. He would be the most swabbed trainer in the Riverina and yes he got a positive admitted to giving the supplement to another horse and there might of been some form of contemination. At albury a horse wins dave waits around for ever for the stewards to come swab, after hearing he lost the race on protest and still no one showing up to take the swab her leaves. Minimum suspension? in the last 2 years i expect he would of had atleast 150 pre or post race swabs and had 1 positive, hes been in the industry for 30 years and thats his first one, 3 months is still rather hefty considering others were getting reprimands not that long ago.
Now lets look you yourself, well i assume shaun snudden the registed trainer in the riverina area is some relation. Stylishgate personal MR of 2.08 and 2.07.4 in his 2 runs before today. First up for shauns stable set alight and was making good ground unlucky to be beat (was backed a fair bit).. Billy Branach 2.07(1700) the start before joining the stable first run personal mile rate of 1.58 that is massive improvement..... not saying surgesting any wrong doings simply want to show that it doesnt always mean something is dodgy just cause a horse improves and that you should know facts before you throw statements around,

Shaun is a professional trainer both these horses were trainer by hobby trainers before so you would expect some improvement? Plus Shaun's record speaks for itself he can train a horse.

[clumsy]

I think you will find that the trainer you continually attack has had more then his fair share of inspections, delayed swabs and questions over form reversals, i just wanted to point out they are possible and you dont need to attack someone who has done alot for harness racing in the riverina (one of the biggest things is nominating horses at the request of hrnsw so that races hold up)
I am having a go at HRNSW about the length of some of their penalties and how they enforce them, this is my opion and I do not expect everyone to agree with it.
You made this post a personal attack by mentioning the names of two respected trainers in the Riverina. The stable you are going to bat for are the most successfull stable in the Riverina, and good luck to them, they work hard for their success. Perhaps what has happened to them recently is all about bad management, but the fact remains you still have to do the time.
Good luck to the stable I Am sure they will come back bigger and better than ever.

[TSW]

Why do people say "they will be back bigger and better than ever"? Does that mean they haven't given 100% or that after a break they have developred some magic formula to improve what they were doing before? Explain how they will be bigger and better.

[clumsy]

Why do people say "they will be back bigger and better than ever"? Does that mean they haven't given 100% or that after a break they have developred some magic formula to improve what they were doing before? Explain how they will be bigger and better.
I think they will increase the size of their team and perhaps produce a few more horses like deadsetlucky and goeslikehell.
Harness racing is no different to any other business, if you don't try to improve you will get left behind. It might mean that you have to make some changes to your training method or add some new equipment eg. race gig,swimming pond,walker or any of the other things that may give you an edge. The one thing that you can be sure of is if you sit back and do the same old thing you will be one of those complaining about another trainers success.

[peteboss4]

While the Hierarchy are stumbling along & getting paid to do so, I can not understand their mindset as to the plight of the honest participants. You are taking far too long to ease these peoples livelyhoods. Too late for the breeders, poor bastards have been screwed over Fri night & today. Got any answers boys ???????

[murray green]

While the Hierarchy are stumbling along & getting paid to do so, I can not understand their mindset as to the plight of the honest participants. You are taking far too long to ease these peoples livelyhoods. Too late for the breeders, poor bastards have been screwed over Fri night & today. Got any answers boys ???????

The best way , I think Pete , is to make the CEO a position that is voted in . Make them answerable to US , the true owners of the industry

[murray green]

Stop taking the posts off. Your attitude is exactally whats wrong with this industry. Know one wants to face the truth and say it how it is.

[peteboss4]

Stop taking the posts off. Your attitude is exactally whats wrong with this industry. Know one wants to face the truth and say it how it is.


Can not believe they did that, fancy taking honest posts & replys off. So what people can't speak the truth now, this is Australia not Syria.

[peteboss4]

Can you just repeat what you were saying Murray & Clumsy. I was interested in what you had to say.

[peteboss4]

Sorry fella's . Ive been naughty and had my posts removed . I'll rewrite them in a way that satisfies the way the industry wants to see itself . Sam is doing a GREAT job . The yearling sales figures were appalling but who cares ? Breeders are just a pack of wingers who want to feed and cloth their families . Don,t you worry Sammy , we can just buy em from New Zealand . There are quite a number of people racing week in week out with positive swabs but thats fine as well Sam , someone has to go to the trots and we don't mind . How else will they pay their bookies if their not pulling them up or juicing them up . These scandle clad participants should just shake hands and forget about it . Honest participants are really a pain in the arse with all their do gooder buddies . I KNOW . Kick THEM out . Who cares . Theres probably only a few left anyway . Love ya Sam . Stick to the lobster thermadore , the oysters look sus . Stuff all those recalcitrant infidels

I think your last post was honest Murray and i hear ya. As Clumsy said a email to the boss may help us out. All I know something has to be done but how can we explain our concerns if this forum keeps removing sensitive but necessary posts. So Administrators can you please put them back on so we can discuss the all important matters of urgent concern in our industry. Thank you.

[TSW]

The tone of Murray's posts is exactly how are lot of people are feeling and thinking. Nothing getting done to protect the honest hard working participants in the sport and cheats in the game getting a simple wrap on the knuckles because they come up with flimsy excuses for positives to create 'benefit of the doubt'. Well paid Officials and Administrators more concerned about protecting their cushy jobs with all the lurks and perks. It is little wonder that Harness racing has a bad reputation and is dying a slow death in regional areas and some States ( SA and Qld ). Harness racing is a great spectacle when all competitors are giving 100% and on a level playing field. Someone please get the BIG broom and sweep the rubish out.

[peteboss4]

THIS COMES FROM ANOTHER FORUM & THEY DIDN'T REMOVE THIS>>>>>>>>Talented … Excel Stride carries the Rosati colours.
Fact: Excel Stride is carrying more than the Rosati colours – it is also carrying the NSW Police charged and HRNSW stood down Greg Bennett – the biggest name arrested to date in the current scandal. This is something that escapes a mention in the article below written around cleaning up the sport. This journalist would be well aware of the above.
Sick of paying big money for the best yearlings in the country and watching them getting beaten by no-name buys out of New Zealand, Rosati and wife Maria had decided to take the same path they did 20 years and sell all their horses.
Fact: If at birth you lined up the children of the fastest athletes it is highly unlikely Usain Bolt would have been there – more on this below. And in all of those horses the best to race to date is not one that was a high-priced yearling purchase but one they bred.
“That time it was the Chris Gleeson era and I just said ‘that’s it’,” Rosati said. “I got rid of everything and walked away for four years. It was very hard for my wife and I because we love the sport. But it wasn’t fair what was happening.”
Fact: Chris Gleeson was in fact outed over the Coloresque superfecta
Rosati returned and has built a huge string of horses as well as being the sponsor of the NSW Oaks with his company Form 700.
Fact: raced in it in 2011 and also had security guards assigned – for both the heat and final from memory when we flew home in 54 and change for 3rd over 2300m.
He is a friend any sport needs.
Observation: my definition of friend is obviously a little different. No doubting the financial input – perhaps benefactor is more apt?
“This is my passion and Maria’s as well,” he said. “She loves the trotters so we have some of them. We have been in it for 40 years and I would hate to think what I have spent on the sport.”
Observation: Perhaps more than a few buying decision have not been all that they could be?
Rosati’s horses are easy to find in the form guide with most names including the suffix stride. He has had a successful year, Excel Stride winning the NSW Derby and Newcastle Derby, while four-year-old mare Lilac Stride won her division of the Breeders Crown.
Fact: Greg Bennett has extensive experience driving both the horses above. The last person to drive Excel Stride in a race was Greg Bennett. Let’s come back to Lilac Stride
Trivia: Excel Strides original driver was Robbie Morris before he was replaced by Greg Bennett. And then on Saturday night Robbie Morris replaced Greg Bennett on Karloo Mick in the Miracle Mile
“It has been a good year when you look at those results but it was the week-in, week-out races that were hurting me,” Rosati said. “You watch some horses win heats of big races but then they can’t go a yard in the final because they know they are being watched closely.”
Question: who exactly are we talking about?
However, Rosati had become disillusioned watching his horses getting beaten by “things that would jump out of the ground”.
Observation: Considering the name was brought up let’s have a look at Lilac Stride. A very nice filly, and set a nice precedent winning the Linden Huntley Little Memorial 2yo fillies event won by a handy little filly the year after. The filly had a stable change mid-season and after blowing its first start, went on to rack up a picket fence – the very picket fences that the pontificator has a strong aversion to. From a C3-C6 to a Group 1 win in 6 starts. Could this be one of the horses that the pontificator says “that would jump out of the ground” ?
The time had come to leave again and this time harness racing would have to be left behind for good.
Observation: This is, of course, assuming that the perception and assumptions were 100% correct.
“I was going out and paying for the best yearlings in Australia, New Zealand and the US and then someone would bring something with no form from New Zealand and beat me,” Rosati said.
Fact: Buying the highest priced or best bred yearling in the catalogue has never been a guarantee for race track success in harness racing or any other racing code.
You would think that someone with such an intricate knowledge of yearlings would also have a better grasp of the inherent risk in them. One would certainly challenge the belief that these yearlings were necessarily the ‘best’ yearlings. Probably the most expensive yearlings but not necessarily the best. Just because you let the wallet run rampant and you pay considerable sums for yearlings, this is by no means a guarantee of the following:
a) Hitting the track
b) Being any good
c) Generating a return on an often inflated initial investment
Fundamental economics dictates that. For some reasoning there is a thought that floats around Mr Rosati’s head where he believes that because he spends the most, and has the most horses, he should therefore be winning the most races and earning the most prize money. Sorry but welcome to the real world.
“That happens in racing but these things were winning four, five, six in a row.
Fact: Excel Stride has recently changed stables to a barn that is doing exactly what is stated. Whilst making no inference if it were another trainer previous form suggests they would be sullied and slandered.
“They were there paying only $12,000 for them, so I went over and asked a few questions and got told the horse couldn’t run two minutes over [in New Zealand] and they were coming and running 1:54 at Menangle. That doesn’t happen.
We needn’t sail back further than Tuesday’s meeting at TABCORP Park Menangle on Tuesday 29th November 2011. The results are interesting and have a tendency to make a mockery of Mr Rosati’s claims. Lets investigate:
What better place to start than on Race-8 won by the flying OUR TORIAS SECRET. Of course we are post the scandal so there can be no suggestion of ‘green lighting’ and an added bonus here is that it belongs to Mr Rosati’s main stable: The Luke McCarthy barn. Firstly it’s NZ form. 42 starts: 5 wins 11 places. Nothing flash by any stretch of the imagination.
Best Mile Rate in NZ? 2.00.3. So falls into the Rosati criteria of not won inside 2 minutes.
Has it picket fenced? No but it has won 4 from 8 here in Oz, ran 2nd 3 other times and its winning times include a track record at Penrith, and a 1.54.2 banged out today at Menangle.
Again fitting clearly into Mr Rosati’s ‘That doesn’t happen’ criteria. Oh dear. Do we expect him to reprimand his trainer as he is never wrong, or is he?
Another example today was FLASHBANG from the Molander yard. It went dead on 1.55.0 today and as it was only its 4th start in Oz, could well be on her way to building a picket fence – the one Emilio so despises. Looking at her NZ form she had a paltry 2.06.5 mile as her best in NZ! Quick, call in Strike Force Tairora! This cannot happen……….
As for the Thorn Stable of horses Mr Rosati would be glad to know of the following statistics:
GIDUP THE AVENGER: Best MR in NZ: 2.01.5. Picket fence? Yes. 4 in a row, 6 from 8. Best Menangle MR: 1.54.8. Ticks all the boxes!!!! And cost exactly $12k.
EILIS ROSE: Best MR in NZ: 2.00.9. Picket fence? Not really. Could be on the start of one. Banged out a 1.55.3 slewing to a nice win on Miracle Mile delight. Starting to tick all the boxes.
GIDUP TUSCANY GOLD: Best MR in NZ clocks in at 2.00.4. Picket fence? Yep, banged out a monster 5 timer from 1st up in Australia, including becoming the fastest progeny of Julius Caesar when smashing the Menangle gadgetry in 1.53.6. Much to the delight of the owners. Ticks all the boxes!!!!!! Cost a little more than $12k but done a sensational job.
SPLENDIFFEROUS: Only just missed winning in 1.55.0 today, so will fall into the criteria shortly. Best Kiwi mile was in 2.03.3. Hopefully a picket fence is around the corner. Was very cheap. Less than $10k. That’s got to upset the ogre.
JACCKA TWAIN: Just won in a 2300m event in a very fast 1.57.4 today, but has run 2nd in a blistering 1.54.4 at Menangle. So again knocking on the door. Cost more than the others, and only had a lifetime mark of 2.01.4 in Kiwi land.
The Thorn stable has been able to refute the Rosati claim of ‘That doesn’t happen’ and refute it quite easily. Of course Rosati only needs to consult his trainer of the moment and he will also tell him it is possible. The problem is we are not allowed to win races because if we do, we are drug cheats!
It might be worthwhile knowing too that LILAC STRIDE’s best mile rate before it embarked on its picket fence escapade was 1.57.2 at Menangle. Probably a 2.02 in NZ??? Since the change of stable it has gone at Menangle over a mile: 1.54.9, 1.54.4, and even banged out 2 x 1.56 over 2240m at Melton!!!!!! Horses are allowed to improve you know. Just like Lilac Stride.
The bottle was ruling again and the enjoyment of the sport was gone for me and my wife.
Question: Who exactly are ‘they’? The pontificator has strong conviction here that he is talking about a particular horse. Whom could he be talking about? He seems very specific about the horse in question. Let us see. Would a stable he has persistently targeted and publicly slandered have any horses in it that cost $12k, couldn’t win in 2 minutes in NZ and go 1.54 at Menangle? Oh yes. GIDUP THE AVENGER! Winner, winner chicken dinner?!
Fact: Having seen first hand some of the best form students combine with some knowledgable stables to identify suitable ready-to-run and affordable horses makes for a compelling ownership proposition.
“All we wanted was a level playing field and the best horse to win.”
Fact: We all do but it depends on your definition of ‘level playing field’. Whilst we have no issue and even welcome it the constant surveillance for some and not others is hardly level. Moreso when at the very least a perception emerges that the same surveillance may be partly attributable as appeasement to other disgruntled, ill-informed participants.
Fact: According to the HRNSW stewards report in the 2011 Gold Crown there was only one horse that was not the subject of a swab – Grand Stride.
Observation: I think if they were being brutally honest they want their horse to win.
Rosati sought the counsel of several industry leaders before beginning the process of once again selling up.
“I went to [Harness Racing NSW chief executive] Sam Nati and [NSW Harness Racing Club chief executive] John Dumesny and told them I had had enough,” he said. “They told me to wait a couple of months that something was happening but they couldn’t tell me any more.
Observation: August minus a couple of months equals June. Why would the NSWHRC be across a highly confidential HRNSW investigation when the less people who knew it was happening was better?
“Then the letters started to go out [in August] and it was clear they were doing something.
Aaah this is interesting. Especially in light of what happened today with the release of the 37 races under investigation. Let’s see how many of these races were won by stables whom he blatantly labelled as drug cheats in his drunk moment of stupidity at Bathurst. NONE.
So he expresses how he will leave the sport because he is sick of racing against the drug cheats. How many STRIDE horses raced in the 37 races mentioned in today’s paper? NONE.
Are we starting to enter a zone where the term hypocrite would be appropriate?
“This is the best thing that has happened to the sport. I think everyone was sick of what was going on because it was so obvious.”
Fact: It would also help the industry if people did not fuel the fires with unsubstantiated and ill-informed rumours.


Advertisement


Like this:

Like (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/?like=1&_wpnonce=bce741a766)
Be the first to like this post.



This entry was posted on November 29, 2011 at 10:44 pm and is filed under General (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/category/general/) . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/feed/) feed You can leave a response (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/#respond), or trackback (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/trackback/) from your own site.
16 Responses to “Stride Morning Herald”


http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8f36d9ee5976f8961b7398cf010ae806?s=32&d=identicon&r=G
entertainted Says:
November 30, 2011 at 1:02 am (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/#comment-543)
Wow, this is one of the best written things i have read in a while. Emilo’s comments annoyed me greaty, money does not mean you win races. great to see good horse picked up cheaply out of NZ and suited to managle well done guys
Reply (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/?replytocom=543#respond)


http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/b6e3718e4d6d78ce8a700a7e2a3d7210?s=32&d=identicon&r=G
Vertigal (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/) Says:
December 2, 2011 at 6:39 am (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/#comment-558)
You should have heard some comments directed our way earlier this year! BTW like the name
Reply (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/?replytocom=558#respond)


http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8f4bc3baa30adeb4454aa64b91388d96?s=32&d=identicon&r=G
CaneSmoke Says:
November 30, 2011 at 1:11 am (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/#comment-544)
Probably one of the best thought out and presented arguments I have read in a long time – well done.
Reply (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/?replytocom=544#respond)


http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/b6e3718e4d6d78ce8a700a7e2a3d7210?s=32&d=identicon&r=G
Vertigal (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/) Says:
December 2, 2011 at 6:42 am (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/#comment-559)
The things others think but will not say
Reply (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/?replytocom=559#respond)


http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/e3509bf36feeff28cff291c192ffc581?s=32&d=identicon&r=G
ken irvine Says:
November 30, 2011 at 11:34 pm (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/#comment-550)
Let’s have a level playing field – where all participants are equal.
[ except for those with a truckload of cash - who should misguidedly expect to be a bit more equal than the rest ?
Reply (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/?replytocom=550#respond)


http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/b6e3718e4d6d78ce8a700a7e2a3d7210?s=32&d=identicon&r=G
Vertigal (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/) Says:
December 2, 2011 at 6:44 am (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/#comment-560)
There is a very apt quote from Animal Farm about all being equal that is later appended with but some are more equal than others
Reply (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/?replytocom=560#respond)


http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/e177d0e3c38516338e5f6cc50d912e87?s=32&d=identicon&r=G
jason cash Says:
December 1, 2011 at 10:14 pm (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/#comment-555)
Please call E Rosati yourself and ask him about the article.
Do you need me to post his cell number , when you have done this I would be interested to hear more from you.
Good luck with the anger management course


http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/c0513f55c22d754972b916286742a31e?s=32&d=identicon&r=G
The rose bay Battler Says:
December 2, 2011 at 12:44 am (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/#comment-556)
The best piece of writing I have read in my life. I too have a $14k nz horse that has gone 1.53 And used to FLOG and leave lilac stride eating dust before the “unbelievable” improvement In form upon a new home, just like her other stable mates – Mandy Rambo, our Torias secret, even the great juvinile lady euthenia who like lilac stride couldnt win on a Tuesday meeting but have since gone on to many a picket fence and numerous time improvements. Hypocritical sums it up perfectly!
Reply (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/?replytocom=556#respond)


http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/b6e3718e4d6d78ce8a700a7e2a3d7210?s=32&d=identicon&r=G


http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/a53c83cf10a3804d6a2a4c31f31eb84c?s=32&d=identicon&r=G
Cereal Agitator Says:
December 2, 2011 at 9:15 am (http://vertigal.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/stride-morning-herald/#comment-565)
Lets also not forget the aforementioned Rosati’s threat of physical violence towards a member of the Vertigal crew at Menangle on the final night of the season right in front of NSWHRC CEO John Dumesny outside the grandstand right after the last race .
Quote: ‘Be warned……I will do an Italian job on you’.
Nice bloke.




THIS comes from bigfooty forum and they didn't remove it. Its actually intresting reading.

[aussiebreno]

Hey Peteboss,

Some of Geeuuess's finest work there. He really is a great poster, and didnt he get on Sethlad's nerves.

Btw that blog was only linked to and not posted.

Edit: And I stand by the reason I posted it on bigfooty, (in most cases) owners who take horses from one trainer to another are weak as water.

[Harold Parker]

Hey Peteboss,

Some of Geeuuess's finest work there. He really is a great poster, and didnt he get on Sethlad's nerves.

Btw that blog was only linked to and not posted.

Edit: And I stand by the reason I posted it on bigfooty, (in most cases) owners who take horses from one trainer to another are weak as water.

Weak as water, how so ?

I work in finance. If I don't provide a return for my clients equal to at least the average of my peers I'll get a degree of loyalty but if I go back to back (below par) I'm down a few clients and possibly my job. That's the ballgame.

[Old Frank]

I agree about the posts being deleted, it's ridiculous. I just served a week's ban because the admin said I "wasn't being nice to another poster" within the thread and my answers!! Bloody stupid.

Rosati sounds like a lovely bloke - "I'll do an Italian job on you"... Bloody hell, how silly this shit getting!

The one thing that stands out for me, he's a bad winner as to a large degree he comes across bitter that he's not winning every race his horses enter. Doesn't he realise after this long in the game, you actually lose more than you win?

[peteboss4]

I agree about the posts being deleted, it's ridiculous. I just served a week's ban because the admin said I "wasn't being nice to another poster" within the thread and my answers!! Bloody stupid.

Rosati sounds like a lovely bloke - "I'll do an Italian job on you"... Bloody hell, how silly this shit getting!

The one thing that stands out for me, he's a bad winner as to a large degree he comes across bitter that he's not winning every race his horses enter. Doesn't he realise after this long in the game, you actually lose more than you win?


Its pathetic that the truth is deleted.....I think Murry said in the deleted post was that The guy that won the Hunter Cup & is racing in the Interdoms is doing so under a cloud of a positive swab & others are still ripping everyone off & that Sam needs to get off his behind & do HIS JOB as harness racing is falling apart, I could not see anything wrong even if he used a few strong words that needed the blanks filled in. Big deal. Its the truth & I can not for the life of me understand why it was deleted. The sport is running negative so own up to that & try & fix it. I just hope SAM reads this forum....he should so he can find out how most people feel. Murry also said that we pay his wage....just another truth !

[peteboss4]

I agree about the posts being deleted, it's ridiculous. I just served a week's ban because the admin said I "wasn't being nice to another poster" within the thread and my answers!! Bloody stupid.

Rosati sounds like a lovely bloke - "I'll do an Italian job on you"... Bloody hell, how silly this shit getting!

The one thing that stands out for me, he's a bad winner as to a large degree he comes across bitter that he's not winning every race his horses enter. Doesn't he realise after this long in the game, you actually lose more than you win?

I have & still do feel so bad for E.Heath for loosing that good horse excel Stride to Luke, it won 17 races, $340,000 went 1.52 what more does the guy want !!!!!!!!
And it meet a much better horse in Sushi Sushi a number of times.

[aussiebreno]

Weak as water, how so ?

I work in finance. If I don't provide a return for my clients equal to at least the average of my peers I'll get a degree of loyalty but if I go back to back (below par) I'm down a few clients and possibly my job. That's the ballgame.
Harness racing is a game of loyalty and mateship first, business second in my books. (I'm not saying people aren't entitled to try and earn money)
Yin and Yang - good business decision changing trainers (perhaps), poor morals (you may disagree).
In this scenario it's not like Excel Stride was performing poorly either. At the very least you have to feel sorry for Heath wouldn't you?

Side points:
Trainers are more than entitled to train any horse they're offered.
I'd hate to be Sam Nati - he is expected to be superman.

[Harold Parker]

I have & still do feel so bad for E.Heath for loosing that good horse excel Stride to Luke, it won 17 races, $340,000 went 1.52 what more does the guy want !!!!!!!!
And it meet a much better horse in Sushi Sushi a number of times.

You have to feel for the Guys and Girls that lose nice horses to other barns. I'm missing a few years but after searching the horses mentioned in this thread and doing a search or three on the Stride horses, Neil Day lost a bunch.

[aussiebreno]

This board is never going to be a schoolyard place of gutter talk while you have Triple,brenno,David adding some common sense and sensibility into the discussion.

Edited for accuracy.

[David Summers]

:o Well edited Brendan.

[aussiebreno]

:o Well edited Brendan.
Not sure how much I add to the board but you and Triple add a fair bit. Although VVV seems to be lacking race fitness since his spell :p

[David Summers]

Heard that VVV had a strong hit-out in a weekend barrier trial :cool: