Stewards News

[Showgrounds]

Thanks for digging that up Noel; knew he was no clean-skin but couldn't remember the specifics. I think the term "known to stewards", as in "known to police", would be an apt epitaph to his training career.

It seems to be a trait of the needy and the greedy. They use a stopwatch as a precision tool and can tell you to 1/10th of a second how well a horse is working but blame the town hall clock for being fast when they get caught out with performance enhancers used within the prescribed withholding period. Or just blame their vet!

[arlington]

It's irrelevant whether Cobalt is performance enhancing or not . It's on the banned substance list. All participants have agreed to follow the rules, if you can't then get out of the industry. If Cobalt does nothing why do people keep using it and risking suspension ?

Shouldn't it be, when caught, the industry gets rid of you?

Even though alkalising agents/bicarb aren't banned substances their illicit use is banned. Could follow the same line of thought considering what we've seen in recent times? On one hand you have someone one step away from being incarcerated, on the other hand you have participants appealing through VCAT for a reduction of penalty when only fined $6000 without even a suspension.

Something to consider when a trainer risks their licence for what seems like a paltry few thousand $ in punting or not even any punting money at all. Wins get trainers more/better horses and more training dollars.

[Messenger]

Shouldn't it be, when caught, the industry gets rid of you?

Even though alkalising agents/bicarb aren't banned substances their illicit use is banned. Could follow the same line of thought considering what we've seen in recent times? On one hand you have someone one step away from being incarcerated, on the other hand you have participants appealing through VCAT for a reduction of penalty when only fined $6000 without even a suspension.

Something to consider when a trainer risks their licence for what seems like a paltry few thousand $ in punting or not even any punting money at all. Wins get trainers more/better horses and more training dollars.

I find it depressing to look at who is at the top of the tree. So many have been involved in MAJOR scandals/suspensions. No wonder people are giving it away. We all know it is a very expensive hobby if you cannot win the odd race - and many don't believe they are playing on a level field

[gutwagon]

I really thought our industry had turned a corner on integrity when the new board took over. But they have been so disappointing , the cheats just keep winning and getting away with it. Just look at last nights Melton winners , a lot of winning trainers that are "known to stewards". Many trainers with multiple drug or prohibited substance convictions among them and a few still waiting for their cases to be heard. Hardly any encouragement to go out and see them or keep breeding horses . The uneven playing field isn't getting any smoother !

[arlington]

Might pay to not look too deep into the history behind the winner of race 7 at Cranbourne tonight if you're seeking a level playing field, a good image for the sport and punter confidence.
Was it Craig calling tonight? His memory of the horse's last win, "a huge win". Unfortunately for Craig the reason may have been presented a few weeks ago. And only the tip of the iceberg.

[Messenger]

Did you mean R4 or R7 Wayne

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=CR280118&fromstate=vic

Found this for the last time that R7 winner had a QIP

"It is alleged that the horse ‘Westvillageemily’ was presented to race at Kilmore on 25 July 2017 by Ms Laffan, whilst not free of alkalinising agents, a prohibited substance when evidenced by a total carbon dioxide (TCO2) concentration in excess of 36 millimoles per litre in plasma"

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35948

[arlington]

Apologies Kev, I was listening to Breno cheering on Sparling Success again. I'll edit and correct.

[aussiebreno]

Apologies Kev, I was listening to Breno cheering on Sparling Success again. I'll edit and correct.
;)

[arlington]

Can anyone else hear Dolly

Here you come again
Just when I'd begun to get myself together
You waltz right in the door
Just like you've done before
And wrap my heart 'round your little finger...

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36221

[Adaptor]

Can anyone else hear Dolly

Here you come again
Just when I'd begun to get myself together
You waltz right in the door
Just like you've done before
And wrap my heart 'round your little finger...

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36221

Looks like this has been going on for a long time:
On the HRA Website dated 2002 there is a comprehensive overview of TC02 and the practice of milkshaking.

TCO2 Questions and Answers
Research Papers https://www.harness.org.au/hra/papers/TC02Q-A.HTM

One of the findings in those papers:
For a period of time many believed -on anecdotal grass roots evidence and some academic thought- that milkshakes would hide/mask the use/detection of other drugs but it could not be proven. Anecdotal evidence eventually became reality in the Meadow Mirage case when after many months of testing, analysts found the drug etorphine("a positive but light reaction") hidden behind an administration of bicarbonate.(See Appeal Judge JG Garvey’s summary of this case for further information.).

[Messenger]

For those who haven't opened the link provided by Wayne, it relates to

"HRV Stewards ordered the scratching of the horse Carload from its scheduled engagement in Race 1 at Melton on 27 January 2018.

The scratching followed a stable inspection conducted by HRV Stewards where Mr Justice’s conduct on this day was consistent with preparing Carload to be stomach tubed. "

Thank you Noel for the link to the TCO2 research paper - it is a comprehensive but easy read that everybody should undertake

[arlington]

Looks like this has been going on for a long time:
On the HRA Website dated 2002 there is a comprehensive overview of TC02 and the practice of milkshaking.

TCO2 Questions and Answers
Research Papers https://www.harness.org.au/hra/papers/TC02Q-A.HTM

One of the findings in those papers:
For a period of time many believed -on anecdotal grass roots evidence and some academic thought- that milkshakes would hide/mask the use/detection of other drugs but it could not be proven. Anecdotal evidence eventually became reality in the Meadow Mirage case when after many months of testing, analysts found the drug etorphine("a positive but light reaction") hidden behind an administration of bicarbonate.(See Appeal Judge JG Garvey’s summary of this case for further information.).


A few years ago one of the analytical lab's, website, who provided detection services to the Victorian racing industry had quite a bit of info on alkalising, buffering, agents and how they masked. How a number of drugs and/or their metabolites were affected by alkaline or acidic environments.
With this knowledge available to the racing industry, along with Noel's HRA papers, you can't help but wonder why TCO2 violations weren't/aren't considered more sinister.
I realise you can't suspect every TCO2 violation is a result of someone trying to mask but isn't there still sufficient proof to indicate milk-shaking can give big advantages similar to some of the illicit drugs that attract higher penalties?
Sodi bic, one of the easiest substances to procure, would be fairly cheap at Aldi, and so easy to manipulate form. To shake or not to shake.

[Messenger]

Of late all forms of racing could be summed up by this album cover

On top of the long list of offenders, the sport is full of participants on 2nd or 3rd chances (reformed?)

If we don't come down hard on offenders, the foreground of this pic could be the future of the industry

Good luck stewards - Go Hard

[Messenger]

A respected past administrator of the industry has reminded me that I should really have added:

Appeals Tribunals please realize that Stewards are determining penalties based on expert knowledge of the ramifications of the various substances they suspend trainers for

[gutwagon]

I think one of the major hurdles facing integrity for racing codes is VCAT. VCAT only rules on points of law, precedents etc, they do not consider safety of participants or horses, they don't consider integrity or the image of the sport, the don't consider what is good or bad for the future of the sport. They don't care that participants have agreed to follow the racing bodies rules and abide by their decisions.

[teecee]

A respected past administrator of the industry has reminded me that I should really have added:

Appeals Tribunals please realize that Stewards are determining penalties based on expert knowledge of the ramifications of the various substances they suspend trainers for

...Quote...
Darren Cole gets 12mths even though Mr Conder appearing for HRV stewards
"conceded that cobalt was not performance enhancing"

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2...20Jan%2018.pdf

As I read the two quotes from two of your previous posts I can't help but wonder if the "respected past administrator" you refer to is not part of the reasons for the problem currently burdening the integrity of the sport.

[Messenger]

...Quote...
Darren Cole gets 12mths even though Mr Conder appearing for HRV stewards
"conceded that cobalt was not performance enhancing"

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2...20Jan%2018.pdf

As I read the two quotes from two of your previous posts I can't help but wonder if the "respected past administrator" you refer to is not part of the reasons for the problem currently burdening the integrity of the sport.

That link would not open for me Tony, was it this one

http://www.harness.org.au/news/uploads/COLE%20Darren-%20RAD%20Board%20Written%20Reasons.pdf

The respected past administrator, whose emails I very much appreciate, was not from VIC

[teecee]

Yes

[Adaptor]

Gaita Pulliccino...
In the steward's reports yet again.

ww.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36277

Wonder if the drone was looking in.

[Messenger]

I tried to find if she was still disqualified but that is something HRV do not provide (unlike NSW)
She is isn't she?

[Messenger]

Race 5 at Ballarat tonight

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA020218&ms=vic#BAC02021807

Surely this has to be investigated

IMO Emmett Brosnan was driving with one thing in mind - to stitch up the $1.10 fav

First he poured on the pressure to try and take the lead from the fav but the more telling was when stuck in the death after doing all that early work, when Grant Campbell made that brilliant move to take the lead, EB sooled his horse up again (instead of looking for a rest on the fence - which opened up) to make sure the fav was stuck behind the leader/pocketed on the 'no sprint lane' Ballarat track

EB's horse was beaten 85m
It was first up for 5mths and the only non winner in this field of 3yo's

The big question is: Why was he doing it?

I see he received a QDT for his drive in the next race - probably for not taking the chance to get off the fence when the death horse hung back
but IMO the stewards have got the wrong race as far as the obvious goes

[arlington]

Race 5 at Ballarat tonight

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA020218&ms=vic#BAC02021807

Surely this has to be investigated

IMO Emmett Brosnan was driving with one thing in mind - to stitch up the $1.10 fav

First he poured on the pressure to try and take the lead from the fav but the more telling was when stuck in the death after doing all that early work, when Grant Campbell made that brilliant move to take the lead, EB sooled his horse up again (instead of looking for a rest on the fence - which opened up) to make sure the fav was stuck behind the leader/pocketed on the 'no sprint lane' Ballarat track

EB's horse was beaten 85m
It was first up for 5mths and the only non winner in this field of 3yo's

The big question is: Why was he doing it?

I see he received a QDT for his drive in the next race - probably for not taking the chance to get off the fence when the death horse hung back
but IMO the stewards have got the wrong race as far as the obvious goes


Jeez Kev, I'd hate to be driving in a race if you were a steward. "Sooled his horse up", really? I think he was trying to correct his horse as well as keep his wheels away from the inside horse. He'd of got a holiday if he tried to take that gap.
Nothing wrong with a bit of initiative, as you highlighted with Grant's drive. Not saying it's a good way to balance up the odds on favourite thing but $1.10 was pretty short for that colt, the Emma/Chris factor.
Did Emmett's horse get fired up, earplugs came out prematurely?
Probably why the run was queried rather than QDT.

Were you looking for more fodder for the odds on favourite's thread? lol

[Messenger]

It was a late night post but still suss IMO
His non winner had already done plenty of work in his first run for 5mths and although he may not have had to sool it up - he did not consider taking a sit
The gap was not there but he could have given his horse a rest by taking the 1x1 by letting the fav out
He did get beaten 85m thanks to his drive

It all just seemed a bit too perfect how everybody made their moves, not just Grant, and kept the fav boxed in
Good old fashioned 'showgrounds' driving you might say but to me it just rang an alarm bell
It was the first leg of the Quaddie that paid allright

LOL I did happen to watch it (three times) because I wondered how a $1.10 fav got beat
but I don't think of it as fodder in the odds on favourites' thread - I think of it as a serious problem Wayne

ps I want my stewards to be suspicious

[Messenger]

Found the Stewards Comments column a little confusing last night

We are used to seeing PRS for pre race swab like it appears in R7 & R9 and I always thought that was a blood test (to test TCO2 as much as anything)
but the R2 comments had me wondering whether I have this right as it contains

PRU pre race urine AND PRB pre race blood

so what do we take the general PRS to mean?

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA020218&ms=vic

[arlington]

Race 5 at Ballarat tonight

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA020218&ms=vic#BAC02021807

Surely this has to be investigated

IMO Emmett Brosnan was driving with one thing in mind - to stitch up the $1.10 fav

First he poured on the pressure to try and take the lead from the fav but the more telling was when stuck in the death after doing all that early work, when Grant Campbell made that brilliant move to take the lead, EB sooled his horse up again (instead of looking for a rest on the fence - which opened up) to make sure the fav was stuck behind the leader/pocketed on the 'no sprint lane' Ballarat track

EB's horse was beaten 85m
It was first up for 5mths and the only non winner in this field of 3yo's

The big question is: Why was he doing it?

I see he received a QDT for his drive in the next race - probably for not taking the chance to get off the fence when the death horse hung back
but IMO the stewards have got the wrong race as far as the obvious goes


Jeez Kev, I'd hate to be driving in a race if you were a steward. "Sooled his horse up", really? I think he was trying to correct his horse as well as keep his wheels away from the inside horse. He'd of got a holiday if he tried to take that gap.
Nothing wrong with a bit of initiative, as you highlighted with Grant's drive. Not saying it's a good way to balance up the odds on favourite thing but $1.10 was pretty short for that colt, the Emma/Chris factor.
Did Emmett's horse get fired up, earplugs came out prematurely?
Probably why the run was queried rather than QDT.

Were you looking for more fodder for the odds on favourite's thread? lol


It was a late night post but still suss IMO
His non winner had already done plenty of work in his first run for 5mths and although he may not have had to sool it up - he did not consider taking a sit
The gap was not there but he could have given his horse a rest by taking the 1x1 by letting the fav out
He did get beaten 85m thanks to his drive

It all just seemed a bit too perfect how everybody made their moves, not just Grant, and kept the fav boxed in
Good old fashioned 'showgrounds' driving you might say but to me it just rang an alarm bell
It was the first leg of the Quaddie that paid allright

LOL I did happen to watch it (three times) because I wondered how a $1.10 fav got beat
but I don't think of it as fodder in the odds on favourites' thread - I think of it as a serious problem Wayne

ps I want my stewards to be suspicious

Your stewards were suspicious Kev, including the way the favourite was driven.

Chris Alford, driver of Thats Perfect, was questioned regarding the reasons for the colt being driven forward at the start which appeared in contrast to the tactics notification lodged at the colt’s most recent start at Ballarat on 20 January 2018, where it was advised Thats Perfect would be driven less aggressively at the start. Mr Alford explained that he drove Thats Perfect forward at the start as per its usual racing pattern and he felt it would be in the colt’s best interest to lead. Mr Alford added that passing the 1500m he was aware a runner had commenced to improve quickly three wide and despite his urgings Thats Perfect failed to quicken sufficiently partially due to racing roughly momentarily and as a result Onthecrestofawave was ultimately able to obtain the lead. Trainer Emma Stewart was subsequently fined $200 under Rule 238 for failing to comply with the HRV Change of Tactics Policy in that she failed to notify of an intention to vary from the most recent tactic notification.
Emmett Brosnan, driver of Bossanova Bay, explained after unsuccessfully contesting the lead rounding the first turn Bossanova Bay commenced to pull hard and strike the sulky wheels at various stages, particularly as Onthecrestofawave improved quickly to his outside passing the 1500m. Mr Brosnan further explained that Bossanova Bay pulling hard was further exasperated by the deafeners releasing prematurely. Bossanova Bay tired over the final stages to be beaten 85m for which a warning was issued. In not taking more severe action against Bossanova Bay Stewards were mindful the gelding was first up since September 2017.

[Messenger]

You were right about the deafeners Wayne, I probably should have considered that a fresh horse can over-race. Sometimes you need to be there to see what really happened as the video we get is average - not that I watched it with sound the first time but I guess the caller didn't help as he seemed to be suggesting the fav was being stitched up. I was going with my instincts - if it don't look right then it probably 'aint' (but instincts can be wrong)

[arlington]

I wonder if the caller was aware a COT hadn't been put in for the favourite and Emmett had every right to search for the lead?

[Messenger]

Does anybody else think that these appeal results read more like a forum post than an official ruling?

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article?news_id=36372

[Messenger]

"Following a meeting review Stewards intend to question J Harding (SACKHEIM) with respect to the tactics adopted on the gelding."

https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/racing/stewards/stewardsreports/2016

A gallops odds setter sent me this one because he thought it was So Hot
He is unsure why the change of tactics would have been approved as it only went in 15-20 mins before race
Sackheim then blew out from $1.40 to be in the black

He still nearly won in spite of the driver

https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/trotstv/replays/34136

[arlington]

Stewards report from Menangle last Saturday. http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=PC170218 Informative.

[Messenger]

Plenty of interesting info Wayne but none more so than this:

On Friday 16 February 2018, HRNSW Stewards conducted stable inspections at registered stables in NSW for the purpose of inspecting horses competing on Saturday 17 February 2018. During an inspection, HRNSW Stewards questioned what appeared to be a needle mark and dried blood on the nearside neck of MOLLY KELLY trained by E Stewart. Today Ms Stewart and Stable representative Mr S Kettle were questioned further in relation to the nature of the mark and produced evidence in relation to all stable treatment and provided their stable treatment log book. On the balance of the evidence, Stewards were unable to conclude that any treatment was administered to MOLLY KELLY outside of the Rules which was supported by the treatment log book and evidence from Ms Stewart and Mr Kettle. As such, Stewards permitted MOLLY KELLY to take its place in the field.

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=PC170218

[Messenger]

A reader posted me these thoughts:

"So if a trainers log book doesn't indicate they administered an injection ( it's a flawed honour system at best, and what trainer is dumb enough to record an injection administered outside of the rules ) and the trainer and stable representative obviously say they didn't administer an injection then despite the stewards observing an apparent post injection site then the trainer and stable hands evidence overrides the stewards observations? I note the stewards report doesn't offer any other explanation for the apparent needle mark"

The emboldened is my emphasis

[gutwagon]

Kevin, seems strange that a swab was not taken from Molly Kelly on the spot. They left it until before the race giving plenty of time for masking agents to be given. Of course I'm not suggesting anything like that took place but why give the opportunity.

[Messenger]

What with the mere 3 months given to Amanda Turnbull and the lack of satisfactory explanation/action of this Stewart incident, one would hate to think that 'who you are' is ever taken into consideration - the rules are the rules, the evidence is the evidence.

[Showgrounds]

Bloody mossies!

[Messenger]

What with the mere 3 months given to Amanda Turnbull and the lack of satisfactory explanation/action of this Stewart incident, one would hate to think that 'who you are' is ever taken into consideration - the rules are the rules, the evidence is the evidence.

I have been assured by someone that I respect that 'who you are' is never a consideration.
They explained the reason behind AT's 3mths as follows:

Triamcinolone acetonide being an accepted and legitimate therapeutic substance would fall under a Class 3. The Guidelines then stipulate that a starting point for a first offence, as in this instance, is a period of disqualification of twelve (12) months. The official Stewards Report quotes Turnbull as pleading guilty for which it has become usual to recognise with a 25% reduction in penalty (3 months). Similarly the Reports states this was Turnbull's first prohibited substance offence for which it would be usual to recognise with a further 25% reduction in penalty (3 months).

In addition the Report makes reference to (a) the " Circumstances of this matter" and (b) " Ms Turnbull’s offence record, training record and other personal subjective facts, including ambassadorial and charity roles." It would not be unusual to recognise favourable subjective aspects with a further moderation of (up to) 25% (3 months).

I had worked on 12mths - 25% for a guilty plea, but as outlined above there are many ways to get a reduction

[Messenger]

"Following a meeting review Stewards intend to question J Harding (SACKHEIM) with respect to the tactics adopted on the gelding."

https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/racing/stewards/stewardsreports/2016

A gallops odds setter sent me this one because he thought it was So Hot
He is unsure why the change of tactics would have been approved as it only went in 15-20 mins before race
Sackheim then blew out from $1.40 to be in the black

He still nearly won in spite of the driver

https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/trotstv/replays/34136

Where do we find the results of this questioning?
Do NSW have Stewards Supplementary Reports like Vic does?

[Messenger]

From the Vic Supplementary Stewards report

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36533

Josh Aiken and Kima Frenning may be forming an infamous dynamic duo

Josh got 5 weeks for handing up to Kima, unexplainably according to stewards on Dec 16

While Kima might have been very lucky to get only 3 weeks (ask Trista Dixon) for letting Josh out on Feb 14

It could also be said that Josh may have been lucky to come away with a fine from his RAD board hearing (when compared to Amanda Turnbull)

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article?news_id=36526

[Danno]

Have a look at the replay and the Stewards notations for this the 9th race 2YO event at Bathurst last night and please tell us what you think looks out of the ordinary.


https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/trotstv/replays/34449


http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BH280218&ms=NSW


cheers,

Danno

[Messenger]

Strange interference but what else am I missing Dan

[KTQ]

5's driver deliberately directs his horse into the line of the 2nd last horse and then pushes it with his arm and gets 7 days DQ??? 2nd last horse protests and the protest is dismissed. What in the actual firetruck. Not only should that driver have got 6 months, but the 2nd last horse was making ground and would have beaten 5 so protest should have been upheld.

[KTQ]

Have a look at the replay and the Stewards notations for this the 9th race 2YO event at Bathurst last night and please tell us what you think looks out of the ordinary.


https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/trotstv/replays/34449


http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BH280218&ms=NSW


cheers,

Danno

I'm reposting this to Twitter, if that's OK. I personally don't know much about the rules of racing but that looks dodgy af and I want to see what others think

[Messenger]

5's driver deliberately directs his horse into the line of the 2nd last horse and then pushes it with his arm and gets 7 days DQ??? 2nd last horse protests and the protest is dismissed. What in the actual firetruck. Not only should that driver have got 6 months, but the 2nd last horse was making ground and would have beaten 5 so protest should have been upheld.

Driver was not disqualified Katie just the horse stood down
IGNORE - WRONG

[KTQ]

Driver was not disqualified Katie just the horse stood down

He got 7 days..or am I looking at the wrong thing?

845

[Messenger]

No you are right! I misread it as SD instead of DS

[arlington]

Have a look at the replay and the Stewards notations for this the 9th race 2YO event at Bathurst last night and please tell us what you think looks out of the ordinary.


https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/trotstv/replays/34449


http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BH280218&ms=NSW


cheers,

Danno

Out of the ordinary Danno or ordinary?

I must have the wrong calendar, mine says it's the 1st of March not April.

[teecee]

RACE 9 – MAJOR SPONSOR DRAW TONIGHT TWO YEAR OLD PACE – 1730 metres
Pre-race blood samples were collected from OUR UNCLE JIM.
Stewards delayed the declaration of all clear to consider and objection lodged by trainer P Bullock alleging interference suffered to his runner KYLE SHANNON (M Barnes) 5th passing the 100 metres by HIT THE TRACK (M Turnbull) 4th which was shifting up the track. After taking evidence from all parties and reviewing the patrol footage stewards acknowledged that KYLE SHANNON had received interference and was checked however were of the view that if the interference had not occurred that KYLE SHANNON would not have finished in advance of HIT THE TRACK therefore the protest was dismissed and all clear given on judge’s numbers. At a subsequent inquiry driver M Turnbull pleaded guilty to a charge under rule 163(1)(a)(iii) in that when passing the 100 metres has directed his runner up the track in an attempt to gain clear running however was not clear of KYLE SHANNON where as a result this runner had to be checked. Driver M Turnbull’s licence to drive in races was suspended for a period of 7 days. When considering penalty stewards took into account his plea of guilt, record in relation to this rule and the degree of interference.

[Danno]

RACE 9 – MAJOR SPONSOR DRAW TONIGHT TWO YEAR OLD PACE – 1730 metres
Pre-race blood samples were collected from OUR UNCLE JIM.
Stewards delayed the declaration of all clear to consider and objection lodged by trainer P Bullock alleging interference suffered to his runner KYLE SHANNON (M Barnes) 5th passing the 100 metres by HIT THE TRACK (M Turnbull) 4th which was shifting up the track. After taking evidence from all parties and reviewing the patrol footage stewards acknowledged that KYLE SHANNON had received interference and was checked however were of the view that if the interference had not occurred that KYLE SHANNON would not have finished in advance of HIT THE TRACK therefore the protest was dismissed and all clear given on judge’s numbers. At a subsequent inquiry driver M Turnbull pleaded guilty to a charge under rule 163(1)(a)(iii) in that when passing the 100 metres has directed his runner up the track in an attempt to gain clear running however was not clear of KYLE SHANNON where as a result this runner had to be checked. Driver M Turnbull’s licence to drive in races was suspended for a period of 7 days. When considering penalty stewards took into account his plea of guilt, record in relation to this rule and the degree of interference.

And there in the Stewards report lies the questions Tee Cee, at what stage does something look/appear malicious? at what stage would your average Harness Racing Steward identify or be suspicious of potential foul driving?" More importantly does anyone think the average punter would think that act of "directing his horse up the track" might appear our game is not on the "up and up'?

I've been around this game for close to 50 years and in that time seen some VERY ordinary things that went virtually unnoticed, but you would hope that when something looks suspect the punters and participants get a reasonably practical explanation of what ACTUALLY occurred and subsequently how our administrators are going to ensure any ongoing suspect situations will be resolved.

In this instance, I have not seen any evidence that would support that hope.

[Richard prior]

Protest dismissed but driver gets 7 days, Gee it was a fair old shunt and whether or not it would have made any difference to the result with the horses finishing in 4th or 5th place is besides the point, The driver of the 4th place horse was guilty of an indiscretion, Given a 7 day suspension and the placings should have been reversed in my humble opinion, It’s just seems a little hypercritical to suspend the driver and not reverse the placings.

[Messenger]

It looks a hell of a lot worse than 7 days that is the problem

[Messenger]

Where do we find the results of this questioning?
Do NSW have Stewards Supplementary Reports like Vic does?

SUPPLEMENTARY REPORT



Newcastle 10th February 2018 – Race 8

Stewards conducted an inquiry into the performance of SACKHEIM in Race 8 at Newcastle on 10 February 2018 and the tactics adopted by driver J Harding. After taking evidence from J Harding and trainer G Harding Stewards adjourned the inquiry to allow them to obtain the betting information on the event.

https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/racing/stewards/stewardsreports/2026

The Integrity Manager directed me to the above, found at the end of the stewards report 6 days later (where Sackheim won)

Whatever the betting shows, I would hope the stewards are assessing whether the drive was satisfactory or not

[arlington]

And there in the Stewards report lies the questions Tee Cee, at what stage does something look/appear malicious? at what stage would your average Harness Racing Steward identify or be suspicious of potential foul driving?" More importantly does anyone think the average punter would think that act of "directing his horse up the track" might appear our game is not on the "up and up'?

I've been around this game for close to 50 years and in that time seen some VERY ordinary things that went virtually unnoticed, but you would hope that when something looks suspect the punters and participants get a reasonably practical explanation of what ACTUALLY occurred and subsequently how our administrators are going to ensure any ongoing suspect situations will be resolved.

In this instance, I have not seen any evidence that would support that hope.


Protest dismissed but driver gets 7 days, Gee it was a fair old shunt and whether or not it would have made any difference to the result with the horses finishing in 4th or 5th place is besides the point, The driver of the 4th place horse was guilty of an indiscretion, Given a 7 day suspension and the placings should have been reversed in my humble opinion, It’s just seems a little hypercritical to suspend the driver and not reverse the placings.

I really don't like commenting much before the stewards report comes out but now; a couple of other rules seem to have been completely ignored. Unfathomable that a driver is allowed to, in effect, man handle another runner like this. Are we commenting without viewing head on vision? Would that view really show anything other than what seems plain to see?

You wouldn't even accept that the infringing driver was fending the horse away from his own sulky wheels to avoid knocking it down. BUT the stewards report doesn't address the/any man handling.

Heaven help us if this type of driving is acceptable. Chariots of fire every day of the week. If my horse was man handled like that it would be near on impossible to not go close to infringing the "acting in a manner detrimental to the image of" rule after the race. But the stewards would obviously allow me pay back on the track, ok, so no "acting in a manner" infringemnt for me.


edit: I really wouldn't want to pay back another driver through a horse, looks like I'm back to "acting in a manner..."

[teecee]

And there in the Stewards report lies the questions Tee Cee, at what stage does something look/appear malicious? at what stage would your average Harness Racing Steward identify or be suspicious of potential foul driving?" More importantly does anyone think the average punter would think that act of "directing his horse up the track" might appear our game is not on the "up and up'?

I've been around this game for close to 50 years and in that time seen some VERY ordinary things that went virtually unnoticed, but you would hope that when something looks suspect the punters and participants get a reasonably practical explanation of what ACTUALLY occurred and subsequently how our administrators are going to ensure any ongoing suspect situations will be resolved.

In this instance, I have not seen any evidence that would support that hope.

A quotation I have heard and read in a number of Judicial hearings here. This case in my view is pertinent....

Mr ...... asked the Committee to bear in mind through the hearing a quote from the Hon Justice Mr W R Haylen in relation to a ruling dated 20 May 2009.
“perhaps to throw my interpretation into the mix I might view it this way-that the sort of culpable action that is required to amount to a breach of this Rule might be such that in normal circumstances a reasonable and knowledgeable harness racing spectator might be expected to exclaim with words to the effect “what on earth is he doing “or “my goodness look at that” or some such explanation”.

[Richard prior]

That would be putting it mildly Teecee lol

[Messenger]

I found the outstanding quality R5 C1 at Maryborough today very interesting.

At the beginning I thought to myself - Chris Alford cannot be trying as he allowed himself to be pocketed 3 fence (which was to become 4 fence)
but in the end he got off the fence down the back straight and certainly appeared to be trying

I know he is a legendary professional but if he had not been able to get off the fence I would have expected a QDT and a suspension.
I would love to hear his thoughts on the drive and whether that was a concern to him at all

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MH090318&fromstate=vic#MHC09031803

[aussiebreno]

I found the outstanding quality R5 C1 at Maryborough today very interesting.

At the beginning I thought to myself - Chris Alford cannot be trying as he allowed himself to be pocketed 3 fence (which was to become 4 fence)
but in the end he got off the fence down the back straight and certainly appeared to be trying

I know he is a legendary professional but if he had not been able to get off the fence I would have expected a QDT and a suspension.
I would love to hear his thoughts on the drive and whether that was a concern to him at all

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MH090318&fromstate=vic#MHC09031803
Looks like the horse has a bit to learn.
Lead time on the quicker side of average and 29.5 1st quarter he was probably loathe to make it work the chair.

[Messenger]

Looks like the horse has a bit to learn.
Lead time on the quicker side of average and 29.5 1st quarter he was probably loathe to make it work the chair.

I have followed the horse since his very first start which was his last day as a 2yo last year and he went to the Death and ran a close 2nd to Dragontown when they set the Tk Rec which was beaten today.
As well as that, it was very early in the race and plenty of chance that something would come around

I was more just pondering what the stewards may have thought if he did not get out at all

[aussiebreno]

I have followed the horse since his very first start which was his last day as a 2yo last year and he went to the Death and ran a close 2nd to Dragontown when they set the Tk Rec which was beaten today.
As well as that, it was very early in the race and plenty of chance that something would come around

I was more just pondering what the stewards may have thought if he did not get out at all
Not to guess Alfords intentions but he was on what appeared to be the best horse in the race on its debut so he drove it like that. Wasn't in the top 2 horses in yesterdays field so he didn't drive it like that. If he was favourite I'd be expecting stewards to question him, but with those two smart ones in it I'd say the bloke with over 6000 winners knew what he was doing when staying on the pegs.
He did start $4.50 but that would have blown out to probably around $8 in live betting once he didn't lead or hold leaders back. Not sure how many $8 shots Stewards are asking to go up and work the chair (even with potential of cover).
The horse wasn't running tractably enough to continue being hunted out and wasn't up to the class of the two favourites at this stage in his career. Nothing to see here, even if the race had panned out that he never seen daylight.

[Messenger]

Not to guess Alfords intentions but he was on what appeared to be the best horse in the race on its debut so he drove it like that. Wasn't in the top 2 horses in yesterdays field so he didn't drive it like that. If he was favourite I'd be expecting stewards to question him, but with those two smart ones in it I'd say the bloke with over 6000 winners knew what he was doing when staying on the pegs.
He did start $4.50 but that would have blown out to probably around $8 in live betting once he didn't lead or hold leaders back. Not sure how many $8 shots Stewards are asking to go up and work the chair (even with potential of cover).
The horse wasn't running tractably enough to continue being hunted out and wasn't up to the class of the two favourites at this stage in his career. Nothing to see here, even if the race had panned out that he never seen daylight.
In your opinion :D

Of course there was nothing to see as he did get out - just thought it was an interesting 'hypothetical'

[Messenger]

the stewards clearly did not like the look of r6 at geelong tonight

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ge030118&fromstate=vic#gec03011802

it will be interesting to see if anything comes of it

i wonder whether they noticed some similarities with the previous race with the same 2 stables involved - males horse handed up to nicholson horse for a nicholson win, next race males horse hands up to nicholson horse (even though it was fav handing up to 2nd fav) but nicholson horse runs up the track to let males horse out early

zip

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36676

Laughable

[Messenger]

From the Vic Supplementary Stewards report

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36533

Josh Aiken and Kima Frenning may be forming an infamous dynamic duo

Josh got 5 weeks for handing up to Kima, unexplainably according to stewards on Dec 16

While Kima might have been very lucky to get only 3 weeks (ask Trista Dixon) for letting Josh out on Feb 14

It could also be said that Josh may have been lucky to come away with a fine from his RAD board hearing (when compared to Amanda Turnbull)

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article?news_id=36526

Both appealed and if you thought Kima was lucky to get 3 weeks compared to Trista Dixon - Well now she has got ZIP

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/19%2003%202018%20-%20Joshua%20Aiken%20and%20Kim%20Frenning%20(Decisi on).pdf

[Danno]

SUPPLEMENTARY REPORT



Newcastle 10th February 2018 – Race 8

Stewards conducted an inquiry into the performance of SACKHEIM in Race 8 at Newcastle on 10 February 2018 and the tactics adopted by driver J Harding. After taking evidence from J Harding and trainer G Harding Stewards adjourned the inquiry to allow them to obtain the betting information on the event.

https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/racing/stewards/stewardsreports/2026

The Integrity Manager directed me to the above, found at the end of the stewards report 6 days later (where Sackheim won)

Whatever the betting shows, I would hope the stewards are assessing whether the drive was satisfactory or not

Just noticed at a subsequent enquiry at Maitland on 19th March James Harding received a 6 week suspension for an "unacceptable drive".

[Messenger]

Thanks Dan, you have to be lucky to chance upon follow ups like this
I must admit however that if you are a sleuth you might know that under NSW 'Racing' tab you will spy not only Stewards Reports but also Follow Up Reports - I would never have known this is where to look but for an email reply from Michael Prentice (Integrity Manager)

[Messenger]

These make you realize how lenient we are compared to Cricket Australia!

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/disqualified-for-a-period-of-3-years

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Fraudulent-or-corrupt

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Fined-5000-for

They could all have got more time (although, how do you penalize an unlicensed person).
10yrs would not have been out of order for Cox
This was property theft by the licensed two although one may have simply believed the word of the other

[Toohard]

Add this one too Kev?

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/Dunns-fined-14-000.-Four-horses-disqualified

TeeCee... states 'Public' trainer in text a few times. Is that some NZ specific thing?

[Messenger]

You get the feeling that authorities don't want to suspend people - either they don't want bad publicity or they want their 'supposed' stars going around - maybe it is understandable
I believe the cricket penalty would too have been minimal if it had not been such a 'seen' event. It would have become worse publicity, not to have done something about it

It therefore baffles me that we accept so many excuses when drivers perform suspiciously for these are our 'seen' events - the ones that really hurt our image

[teecee]

Add this one too Kev?

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/Dunns-fined-14-000.-Four-horses-disqualified

TeeCee... states 'Public' trainer in text a few times. Is that some NZ specific thing?

Public trainer is a licence level which allows the holder to train horses for gain (remuneration) for any member of public. ie fully professional
This is opposed to "Licence to Train" level where the holder can only train a limited number of horses (5) for remuneration owned by non family members. ie hobby .

PS... you can read the full transcript on the "SUBSTANCES " thread

[Messenger]

Somebody asked me: "What has become of David Aiken's NSW positives?" - Does anybody know?

[Messenger]

I have been emailed that it would seem to be a fairly clear case of human medication contamination that NSW are working through

[Messenger]

https://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/5331578/harpleys-pacer-records-swab-irregularity/?cs=149

So how did Oxazepam come to be in the Septic?

[Messenger]

Maybe I am reading it wrong, I took 'the old family house' to mean a house no longer occupied but if it is and the occupants are using Oxazepam - who knows what is possible

[Adaptor]

https://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/5331578/harpleys-pacer-records-swab-irregularity/?cs=149

So how did Oxazepam come to be in the Septic?

Oxazepam is a short-to-intermediate-acting benzodiazepine. Oxazepam is used for the treatment of anxiety and insomnia and in the control of symptoms of alcohol withdrawal. It is a metabolite of diazepam, prazepam, and temazepam, and has moderate amnesic, anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, hypnotic, sedative, and skeletal ...

[Richard prior]

Sounds like something from Ripleys believe it or not, It’s going to be interesting to see how the NSW stewards deal with this one

[hugdon]

Thank heavens the investigator took soil and vegetation samples. My favourite horse of all time was trained by the Harper's old Welcome Advice way back in thr 70's I for one await the outcome with worm on tongue

[Messenger]

If you read this old link, you might conclude that Bruce is not as squeaky clean as he paints

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/BERNIE-KELLY-DISQUALIFIED-54131

[Danno]

If you read this old link, you might conclude that Bruce is not as squeaky clean as he paints

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/BERNIE-KELLY-DISQUALIFIED-54131

to be fair to Bruce, I think you probably need to put some perspective on this......you are on the way to the races to drive a horse with the owner/ trainer and he pulls over and says " gimme a hand with this horse will you?"....I'm not too sure how I would react to be honest.

cheers,

Dan

[Mighty Atom]

If you read this old link, you might conclude that Bruce is not as squeaky clean as he paints

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/BERNIE-KELLY-DISQUALIFIED-54131

You really have to be a lot more succinct than that. With all that paraphernalia you would have to be stupid to think you were not likely to be caught in the act. Many years ago I was travelling to a country trot meeting and pulled up on the side of the road shortly a car with 2 stewards in it pulled up and asked if anything was wrong. Told them I was just checking the horse's rug to see if it was still in place the horse won the race at 50/1.

[Messenger]

to be fair to Bruce, I think you probably need to put some perspective on this......you are on the way to the races to drive a horse with the owner/ trainer and he pulls over and says " gimme a hand with this horse will you?"....I'm not too sure how I would react to be honest.

cheers,

Dan

But that of course is the best picture you can paint Dan, so let's not be too fair

[Messenger]

You really have to be a lot more succinct than that. With all that paraphernalia you would have to be stupid to think you were not likely to be caught in the act. Many years ago I was travelling to a country trot meeting and pulled up on the side of the road shortly a car with 2 stewards in it pulled up and asked if anything was wrong. Told them I was just checking the horse's rug to see if it was still in place the horse won the race at 50/1.

Succinct - are you being sarcastic Rod and think I am being too succinct?

[Richard prior]

Nice Rod, I hope someone had a few Bob on it for you, I remember getting a tip off one of the guys here about his horse and completely forgot about it and the horse won at massive odds, I felt like slitting my wrists lol

[Mighty Atom]

Nice Rod, I hope someone had a few Bob on it for you, I remember getting a tip off one of the guys here about his horse and completely forgot about it and the horse won at massive odds, I felt like slitting my wrists lol

Hi Rich, yes, I can still remember the name of the horse hadn't won a race for four years sat in the death seat over 2500 metres at Pinjarra in a top-class field. Fifty to one in the country back then was the equivalent to 100/1 in the city. Think I was 22 at the time and into my third year of training. I had $20 each way. My driver later to be a big name in the sport got a punter in on the same horse two weeks later. Started at 10/1 horse in front of him broke and knocked my bloke completely out of the race got going again and ran second no big collect though.
Owners thought they had a champion decided to train the horse themselves sat three wide almost entire race at its first start and ran second. Stewards thought it was too good to be true swabbed the horse and they got five years for caffeine. What shocked me though was they still had me down as the trainer of the horse no steward enquiry so obviously a miss print in the book. But that was the end of the trainer and horse.

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Fined-and-12-months-suspension

[gutwagon]

I really think the fine for not keeping an up to date log book of treatments should be much bigger. Many of the top stables have been done for this and it's usually a $250 fine.

[allanjg]

I really think the fine for not keeping an up to date log book of treatments should be much bigger. Many of the top stables have been done for this and it's usually a $250 fine.

i am disgusted at the miserable penalty handed out to a.jordan...this person is a drug cheat working hand in hand with the notorious g. pullacino. one can only guess at how long they were doing this before he was nailed...hrv is slowly killing trotting in vic.with their lenient penalties...it was april last year when jordan was caught and it has taken them 12 mths to decide whether they should hand him a penalty or not....no doubt he will appeal it and will see it strung out for months or even years [as we seen with the demmler case].

[Richard prior]

In my humble opinion, Anyone that is caught out and in cahoots with a person that is barred should be automatically suspended with no grounds of appeal, Just an automatic sentence and I’m thinking at least 2 years and if doping is also proven, That penalty can be added later

[Danno]

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=37179

NEXT!!!!!!:p:confused: wonder whos turn it is now??

[Richard prior]

Fence post excuse is getting a bit thin

[lasse]

Visiting trainer at someone elses property......get out of jail card right there lol

[Richard prior]

That would be pretty lame if that’s the case Lasse

[Messenger]

It will be interesting to see why they felt they had to declare R2 at Ararat a No Race
They had to steer around a fallen horse in the sprint lane but the winner was always going to be the winner
Maybe the winner veering into the 3rd horse a bit may have cost it 2nd but in the scheme of things I think they could have let the race stand
(no vision on HRV but was still available on Sky replays)

[gutwagon]

I find it very frustrating that HRV don't provide a replay of "no races". Owners, trainers and drivers would like to see what happened and punters deserve to see why it was declared a no race. It's like they want to avoid any questioning for their decision. "We make the decisions and no one should dare question us" is the message that they are sending.

[Richard prior]

Fair call, I think we should be able to see the replay

[KTQ]

Harnessbred posted this to Facebook a couple days ago. Anyone else see it?

"Another race fixing investigation has surfaced in the central west of NSW, around a race held at Dubbo in early April 2018.
We are lead to believe that strike force Antree are investigating a Parkes trainer and a leading reins person on the said meeting after intercepting phone calls involving persons of interest and race fixing allegations.

It is not yet clear, weather these allegations are related to charges made by task force Antree on the 1st of March 2018.
However early reports suggest their could be links regarding the involved.
Court proceedings relating to the charges of two counts of engage in conduct that corrupts betting outcome and use corrupt information to bet on event that have been laid on the 1st of March have been adjourned till June.

An Investigation in relation to these current matters are on going."


Race in question is Race 4. Amanda Turnball driving. Hutchings training.

From a FB commentator: "This is the race in question. Hutchings had a 70/1 pop that made the favourite do a power of work in a lead time more than a second faster than other races that night. Allowing the stablemate to sit back at the tale and swoop home."

I haven't seen anything from any other source, but these kind of reports are a worry.

[Beltane]

Stewards report on the race mentions:


Stewards questioned driver B Hutchings in relation to the tactics adopted and the overall performance with HOMESTED LAD. Trainer / Driver B Hutching explained that he was able to hold his position from the mobile and find the lead without making much use of the gelding. He further added racing down the home straight on the first occasion sustained a challenge by KARLOO THREEOTHREE which was under a significant amount of driving and held the lead as in his opinion HOMESTED LAD is best suited whilst leading running even sectionals. He further advised that he wasn’t overly disappointed in the performance. Stewards noted his comments.

The second last sentence above is interesting as Homested Lad finished in 8th place, 39.7 metres behind the stablemate winner.

[Messenger]

There is no mention in the Stewards Report as to why One Muscle Hill was declared a non-runner in the NSW trotters derby other than to say he was denied a fair start in the Summary table - how can you give no details in the body of the stewards report?!

https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/racing/stewards/stewardsreports/2153

[aussiebreno]

There is no mention in the Stewards Report as to why Muscle Hill was declared a non-runner in the NSW trotters derby other than to say he was denied a fair start in the Summary table - how can you give no details in the body of the stewards report?!

https://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/racing/stewards/stewardsreports/2153

A case of broken gear?

[Richard prior]

I think you’re right Breno, Watched the start a couple of times and broken gear must have been the reason

[Messenger]

I could see the driver put up his hand but the starter must not have - a steward's report explanation has to be a given surely

[Messenger]

There is a controversial racing site that is claiming that R7 at Mildura last Sunday was the red hottest race Victoria has ever seen.
I like hearing from our expert posters when I, like most, have no driving experience - what do you guys think?
The stewards report allocates no blame

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=ML130518

But we had a $1.20 favorite driven by a legendary reinsman and headed for victory - get beat
Have a look

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ML130518&ms=vic#MLC13051810

[Richard prior]

OMG I can’t believe that, I’m going to leave that to the guys that have had driving experience but it didn’t look good

[alphastud]

The website jeebung.com suggests that $92,000 was possibly bet on the Betfair exchange for MY CASH NZ to lose.

She won her first 2 starts in Australia by over 10m and so justified her market favoritism.

Only brave or smart punters would bet against MY CASH NZ driven by the best driver in the race in a small field of 8.

MY CASH NZ was bolting and only some miracle was going to stop her... . and did..

[gutwagon]

Stewards report says "all evidence was considered", if the betting reports show some new evidence then the case should be re opened.


I have never seen wheels get locked together that tightly before, was it accidental or was it deliberate ? It's not impossible for that to happen, just very rare. It is almost getting to the stage where recording devices need to be put on each driver during the race just so stewards can check what is being said between them .

With social media the way it is now, it is easy for disgruntled punters and armchair driving experts to start and spread rumors about fixed races and many people will just believe it. Hopefully stewards will fully investigate the incident and clear up the facts.

[gutwagon]

Have a look at the last 200m of race 5 at Melton Saturday night, particularly driver of #12. Should be an interesting stewards report and a long holiday.

[Messenger]

Have a look at the last 200m of race 5 at Melton Saturday night, particularly driver of #12. Should be an interesting stewards report and a long holiday.

It will make most interesting reading - it defies belief that he would think he could do that. Any thought he could have been helping with gear diminishes when you see his animated talk after the line

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX190518&ms=vic

[Richard prior]

Why was he looking around coming around the corner?? I haven’t seen this driver before and god knows what he was thinking, This one certainly needs further investigation

[Messenger]

It will make most interesting reading - it defies belief that he would think he could do that. Any thought he could have been helping with gear diminishes when you see his animated talk after the line

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX190518&ms=vic

There was an explanation! Unfortunately our video quality is not good / large enough to show that he had lost his whip

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=MX190518

Apologies Jack - I can now understand why you were waving your whip around after the line

[Dot]

So have I got this right, a kid loses his whip and retrieves it and an enquiry is commenced and adjourned. The states most experienced driver drives with his leg in another sulky and the matter is concluded on the night. Doesn't appear to be consistent stewarding practice to me.

[gutwagon]

You can actually see his whip fly across when the other driver reefs his. But you should not loose your whip and you shouldn't stop driving and try to retrieve it. In my opinion it cost his horse at least 2 placings. Anyway the stewards can decide the penalties .

And Dot , the other race does deserve more investigation imo.

[Messenger]

David Aiken has been suspended for 4mths but has a stay (3x4mths actually but made concurrent)

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=37329

The article mentions:

"the analytical results for recycled water samples obtained from the paddock utilised by Mr Aiken within the Menangle Park Training Centre."

I have been told that the water in the recycled water tank tested positive to the same substance which would suggest a strong appeal will be lodged
Why a lot more horses have not tested positive to the same substance might be the sticking point

[Showgrounds]

Well, as we all know, it is the trainer's responsibility to present horses at the races "drug free".

Once again, very dodgy, kangaroo-court like justice courtesy of HRNSW handed to a trainer who was guest at the NSWHRC's showpiece horse-stabling facility. No duty of care for the host, then.

[Richard prior]

This is Bizarre

[Dot]

Yes very interesting, absolute liability and duty of care. Aiken is not a guest of the NSWHRC but a rent paying tenant to HRNSW who designed, constructed and operate the Menangle Training Centre.

[Messenger]

Chris Alford could have got a QDT for his single mindedness to lead on Lenny

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX260518&fromstate=vic#MXM26051801

The Lead Time was 2.5 secs faster than when he set the Tk Rec this year

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX270118#MXM27011801

[Messenger]

The last race at Ballarat last night was won on protest
It is an interesting one as you can argue that if Wow Shes Smooth had not been carted wide by the leader she would have got to the line quicker and so she deserved to win
However if both horses had gone straight I think the finish would have been the same with WSS unable to beat Tough Call
An added tidbit is the fact that the winning driver (after the protest) was cautioned about taking inside runs like he did down the back straight

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA140618&ms=vic#BAC14061802

The Stewards Report

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=BA140618&fromstate=vic

[Messenger]

R9 at Shep is the sort of race that can hurt our code. Here is Jason Bonnington's pre race analysis

OVERVIEW: You’ve only got two little issues with hotpot 3YO IM SCORCHING (1) here; the ace alley and the fact she didn’t want to score up in a recent trial at this very venue. To be fair the polemarking draw isn’t much of an imposition as even if she’s crossed Gavin will make all the right decisions after that. Her recent misbehaviour at the trials is far more worrying. Having said that if she produces a faultless display she’ll brain this lot

IM SCORCHING started $1.30. Gavin never looked desperate to get off the fence, you could even say he seemed unperturbed about settling 3 back the poles and didn't "make all the right decisions". Maybe I am super tough as the caller said "Gavin just cant find a passage off the pegs" when they were passing the winning post the first time - which is when he needed to make it happen. I know he is the Iceman and we did see a little obligatory head left + head right down the back straight. It may be just racing but it also looks bad IMO. A sceptic has plenty of ammo to say that it was the perfect way to get her beat. Imagine if you knew the $1.30 fav is not going to win tonight. I take solace in the fact that newbs are unlikely to be backing $1.30 favourites

Gavin managed to lock wheels again so we will never know how close she still might have got. We need an inventor to come up with a way of reducing the chances that wheels can lock

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=SP150618&fromstate=vic#SPC15061806

ps Not talking through my pocket (I'm a virtual non punter nowadays)

[Dot]

Think your might be being a bit harsh Kev. Bonnington did suggest the fav would get crossed, not lead and win. Has it led in any of it's races Kev? The rule here is a driver can't make another runner cover more ground coming off the pegs at the first turn, what is it there? Gav did have the whip out the back at the start and was slow out, presumably that is the QDT, Alford showed why he is the best driver in the sport, seized the initiative and drove hard for the lead and controlled the the race after that ensuring the fav wasn't getting off the pegs in running, "great front running drive" as the caller said. Svanosio held his line to the finish as he's entitled to, the locking wheels was a completely different scenario to the one previously discussed, more questions to be asked and a worse look if Svanosio had just let the fav out I think.

Bonnington could have been a little more circumspect in his comments given there was always a chance here the fav would be locked up on the pegs but I don't think that's his personality.

[Messenger]

I am probably being a bit tough but like Bonnington, I thought barrier 1 was its only worry and I thought it was a given that Gavin would ease off the barrier until he could get off the pegs

[Dot]

Yes I guess he could possibly have done that, certainly not what I'm used to seeing from barrier 1 in WA though. But how do you guarantee Kev if Gav had gone back at the start to get into the running line he would have won anymore then if the run in the straight had opened up instead of jostling and locking wheels in the straight?

The only certainty in racing is that there is no certainty. Punters are wagering money on an event with an uncertain outcome in the hope of winning more money, not putting it in the bank for a 2 minute term deposit at 30%. Maybe Bonnington has a small bitter pill to swallow for the certainty of his words on this occasion or perhaps that's how the punters like them.

[Messenger]

I don't believe that drivers have to drive according to how well supported their horse is but if you are on clearly the best horse in the race and your greatest danger is being locked on the pegs - a top driver makes sure he isn't. I have seen horses not noted for early speed ease all the way back to last to ensure they got off the pegs - it was a 2190m race and it was only a field of 8. The winner was 2nd favourite and yet it had only won for the first time at its previous start - its 34th start!

I suppose you can just say 'that is the way Gavin drives' and therefore that horse's chances were overrated. I cannot help but think that if that was a BIG race and Gavin was on a horse with a similar class edge - he would have had more input into how that race panned out

[Dot]

And there in a nut shell Kev you have it. It wasn't a big race but there are big races for the filly coming up. And who's rights outweigh who's? The right of the punter who has wagered 10s to perhaps 100s of dollars to expect a driver to take every measure to win that race on a short priced favourite even if it means a gut busting run to the rights of the owners/breeders who have invested 10s to perhaps 100s of thousands of dollars in the industry to have their filly given a chance in that race and return in the best possible shape for the big races and the only possible way they will see a return on their investment is to win in the big ones?

The Vicbred super series begins next week and the filly is in the heats. Did JBs form analysis take that into account? Did yours? I don't know, I thought she started too short with a bigger picture in mind. Surely the likelihood of future engagements in bigger races is/should be a part of the many uncertainties in the event taken into account during punters "risk analysis" and determination of what price they will wager at? Maybe it was here, maybe it wasn't I don't know.

[Messenger]

Well summarized Dot. It does not take much for a favourite to start too short in Vic - risk analysis should be everything but sometimes it seems to be non existent. Sure it was an actual race but maybe it should have been treated as a warm up - somewhat 'heat' like, where winning is not everything.

[aussiebreno]

Well summarized Dot. It does not take much for a favourite to start too short in Vic - risk analysis should be everything but sometimes it seems to be non existent. Sure it was an actual race but maybe it should have been treated as a warm up - somewhat 'heat' like, where winning is not everything.
Like Our Overanova was heaving a heat where winning was not everything tonight. Stablemate won though! Why go back to last like that on the odds on pop?

[Dot]

In the minds of punters Kev, yes, and perhaps this is where JB erred, there's no way of knowing from what he's written if he's taken the fillies future program into account, and at risk of perhaps stepping slightly over the social media policy, he should have and made it clear in his assesment that he'd considered the filly may have had bigger fish to fry. The experienced punters probably considered this for themselves but perhaps the novices could have done with a little more guidance. Right at the start of the replay you can hear the caller make reference to the super sires but too late then for punters of course.

Connections aren't given the luxury of treating a race as a "warm up" they have to be seen to be trying but I guess there will always be trying and trying. The filly was eligible for this race and you can't blame connections for trying to earn a little on the way to the sires but perhaps HRVs programming was a little off here and this should have been a 4yo and older C0 which would no doubt have seen her trial the night before. But as "Bonnie" has pointed out the better 3yos need somewhere to race too. Getting the programming right is obviously not easy but perhaps this needs a little tweak for next year with the COs immediately before the sires heats being 4yo plus and an higher assessed 3yo programmed if there wasn't.

[Messenger]

Not surprised to see an Inquiry (Adjourned) into Lance Justice's drive in the last at Stawell

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=SW270618&fromstate=vic#SWC27061802

[Messenger]

R2 Melton, I hope Ryan Duffy will be asked what he was doing using the whip a lap out if it wasn't team driving

Nathan Jack gave his stablemate a nice cart up too but he can always say that he was going to get the 1x1 by doing so

[aussiebreno]

On the back of tonights loss Sydney Rooser have sacked Cooper Cronk and are ready to bring in Neil Day. Give Wagga race 1 a watch.

[Messenger]

He will whip them into shape

ps That Trots TV replay was a jumble

[Showgrounds]

Public trainer is a licence level which allows the holder to train horses for gain (remuneration) for any member of public. ie fully professional
This is opposed to "Licence to Train" level where the holder can only train a limited number of horses (5) for remuneration owned by non family members. ie hobby .

PS... you can read the full transcript on the "SUBSTANCES " thread

I found this article from the Sunday Star Times (NZ) on Stuff.co.nz today.

I believe too many people who do not actively train horses for a living show a propensity for throwing rotten tomatoes whenever a "positive" is detected or a suspension is handed down. As somebody who derives a living from delivering "justice" where needed, i find the failure of NZ officials to follow through leads coming out of the Dunn case disturbing. Make sure you read this article:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/104543702/claim-race-horses-drugged-to-win-in-attempt-to-frame-owner

[Messenger]

Thanks Trevor - the U in RIU (Racing Integrity Unit) might stand for Useless instead of Unit

[Messenger]

Not surprised to see an Inquiry (Adjourned) into Lance Justice's drive in the last at Stawell

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=SW270618&fromstate=vic#SWC27061802

"Lance Justice (Beach Skipper NZ) was questioned regarding his tactics through the early and middle stages when after issuing a short challenge to the leader Hot Breakfast in the home straight on the first occasion, he again challenged Hot Breakfast from approximately the 1400m to the 1000m as Lets Save The Day NZ raced three wide around him. After again being unsuccessful he was then forced to race outside of the leader for the remainder of the race before being beaten 28.5m into 6th place. After taking evidence from driver Lance Justice and also taking evidence from driver James Herbertson,( Hot Breakfast), which had led before surrendering the lead at approximately the 900m and driver Jason Lee, (Lets Save The Day NZ), which raced three wide through the middle stages before crossing to take the lead at the 900m, stewards adjourned the inquiry to a time and date to be fixed, to allow them to further investigate certain aspect of the race."

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=SW270618&fromstate=vic

[Showgrounds]

Thanks Trevor - the U in RIU (Racing Integrity Unit) might stand for Useless instead of Unit

Or UNBELIEVABLE!

[Messenger]

I cant wait to read the answer to the QIP Audaz Bonita's connections gave for its win in R1 at Melton today

This was a $7k race at Melton albeit a weak one but Audaz had not won for 60 starts
She was first up from a spell but this years efforts at Terang, Mt Gambier etc was 8-6-7-6-6 with an average losing margin of over 40m

She started $3 - she had only started that short once in her 72 starts and that was at Mt Gambier 2 years ago when she finished 5th
They were leaving nothing to chance with this sting (?) as Gavin Lang was driving her for the very first time
Putting Gavin on may have ruined any plunge - if that was the plan - as she opened $2.80 fixed, I think

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX020718#MXC02071803

[arlington]

I cant wait to read the answer to the QIP Audaz Bonita's connections gave for its win in R1 at Melton today

This was a $7k race at Melton albeit a weak one but Audaz had not won for 60 starts
She was first up from a spell but this years efforts at Terang, Mt Gambier etc was 8-6-7-6-6 with an average losing margin of over 40m

She started $3 - she had only started that short once in her 72 starts and that was at Mt Gambier 2 years ago when she finished 5th
They were leaving nothing to chance with this sting (?) as Gavin Lang was driving her for the very first time
Putting Gavin on may have ruined any plunge - if that was the plan - as she opened $2.80 fixed, I think

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX020718#MXC02071803

Do you think Melton should post exposed current trial form in http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?12298-Punters-Need-to-Know each week Kev? Brenno would love it :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyhlL4OpuWQ
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/trials/trial-results/?trialId=18281

But it might do Craig Rail out of a job -
AUDAZ BONITA (1) has the strike rate of only one win from 72 starts but she has performed nicely at the trials leading up to her first up appearance. She won a trial at Maryborough then followed with a third behind the open class trotter Illawong Armstrong (2.00.5, 28.9) so a bold showing is expected.

[Dot]

Other states do include trial form in a horse form in their HRA profiles but Victoria doesn't. I believe HRVs racing manager is looking into including trial form in Vic in the profiles.

[Messenger]

Do you think Melton should post exposed current trial form in http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?12298-Punters-Need-to-Know each week Kev? Brenno would love it :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyhlL4OpuWQ
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/trials/trial-results/?trialId=18281

But it might do Craig Rail out of a job -
AUDAZ BONITA (1) has the strike rate of only one win from 72 starts but she has performed nicely at the trials leading up to her first up appearance. She won a trial at Maryborough then followed with a third behind the open class trotter Illawong Armstrong (2.00.5, 28.9) so a bold showing is expected.

Thanks for that Wayne. I only caught up with the results so I did not see Craig Rail's Form Analysis - how did you get that retrospectively?!

I wont answer about the inclusion of trials as I am afraid of Brenno :p

[arlington]

Thanks for that Wayne. I only caught up with the results so I did not see Craig Rail's Form Analysis - how did you get that retrospectively?!

I wont answer about the inclusion of trials as I am afraid of Brenno :p


Kev, Not that in retrospect will help Brenno out :D but the race field/s analysis is the same as GOODFORM's (pretty sure that holds true) and that will still be up the next race day until that day's meeting is put up but the race field analysis will stay up well after the meeting has finished as well. Pumpkin hour when it becomes results, analysis etc removed.

I have seen, more so NSW, trial form via race field profiles and it's probably a good thing. But just a little but, sure, I'd think any serious/pro punter/s that could have made that horse odds on would have known about it's trial form but if not spoon feeding means you get a good price, well it wouldn't add to the odds on thread here. Brenno may have been as suggestive before.

[arlington]

I found this article from the Sunday Star Times (NZ) on Stuff.co.nz today.

I believe too many people who do not actively train horses for a living show a propensity for throwing rotten tomatoes whenever a "positive" is detected or a suspension is handed down. As somebody who derives a living from delivering "justice" where needed, i find the failure of NZ officials to follow through leads coming out of the Dunn case disturbing. Make sure you read this article:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/104543702/claim-race-horses-drugged-to-win-in-attempt-to-frame-owner


Not sure about your intent with quoting teecee and your first sentence Trevor. I might be very slow on the uptake. Are you saying it's only hobbyists that have that propensity and professionals never do?

[Messenger]

I must say that I had missed the stable change from J Barker to K Barker for Audaz Bonita and there clearly was trial form for the astute to go on

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=MX020718&fromstate=vic

[Showgrounds]

Not sure about your intent with quoting teecee and your first sentence Trevor. I might be very slow on the uptake. Are you saying it's only hobbyists that have that propensity and professionals never do?

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. TC posted the original story quite a while back, just quoted him to give some background context to the story published the other day.

I'm not suggesting anything, other than the "integrity" unit seemed to be happy in getting somebody, not necessarily the culprit. If you want to believe the story, that is.

[arlington]

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. TC posted the original story quite a while back, just quoted him to give some background context to the story published the other day.

I'm not suggesting anything, other than the "integrity" unit seemed to be happy in getting somebody, not necessarily the culprit. If you want to believe the story, that is.

My mistake. I'll correct my post -

Not sure about your intent with quoting teecee and your second sentence Trevor. I might be very slow on the uptake. Are you saying it's only hobbyists that have that propensity and professionals never do?

Does that help? My intent was to ask if you were saying hobbyists have a propensity to throw rotten tomatoes due to a positive swab or suspension but professionals never do.

So, I'm asking now if your second sentence in post #378 which said I believe too many people who do not actively train horses for a living show a propensity for throwing rotten tomatoes whenever a "positive" is detected or a suspension is handed down is merely a coincidence when you've quoted someone spelling out the difference between a professional and hobbyist? (Hobbyists being those people who do not actively train horses for a living.)

[Showgrounds]

Can't recall ever using the term "hobbyist'. My point is that - too often - everybody is too willing to assume people are crooks in this business. As the Dunn case demonstrates, a professional stable has gone to great lengths to clear its name and not sully its reputation.

It is hugely disappointing to me that, when presented with credible evidence that the three horses in question had been "got at", the RIU showed little or no interest. It believed it had done its job. Just like a speed camera saves lives.

And, yes, I believe this industry has both active participants and followers who are a little to keen to eat there own. That's my opinion, you can choose to agree with me or not. I am not pointing a finger at any individuals.

[Messenger]

I cannot blame them Trevor - we have dozens and dozens of trainers who have been suspended for trying to beat the system. But on the case you were referring to, it was of great concern that the RIU showed so little interest in investigating the Dunn's claims

I know where you are coming from in regard to speed cameras and many may wonder whether 'revenue' has become as important as safety BUT speed cameras make people slow down (I for one) and the slower you go the less you are at risk but if you disagree we will just beg to differ as it is not exactly 'harness'

[Messenger]

R2 Melton, I hope Ryan Duffy will be asked what he was doing using the whip a lap out if it wasn't team driving

Nathan Jack gave his stablemate a nice cart up too but he can always say that he was going to get the 1x1 by doing so

I finally remembered to look this stewards report up:

Ryan Duffy (Soho Crucio) was queried in relation to the tactics adopted on that filly and in particular, whether he considered taking restraint and obtaining a trail from Tiger Storm leaving the 1400m when challenged for the position outside the leader, rather than drive with aggression to maintain his position. Mr Duffy advised that while Soho Crucio had worked three wide during the initial stages the filly did so with a trail behind Soho Nolita and was not asked for any effort during this portion of the race. Mr Duffy further explained that on exposed form at Tiger Storms most recent start the filly endured a soft run on the marker pegs and felt for that reason he would be better served maintaining the position at the head of the one wide line. Mr Duffy went on to add that irrespective of this circumstance Soho Crucio proved to be extremely disappointing when beaten 74m at the conclusion of the race and never travelled as well as the filly usually does in her races. A post-race veterinary examination of Soho Crucio revealed a slower than normal recovery rate however no other abnormalities were detected. When considering the statements of the driver, and in particular taking into account the exposed form of Soho Crucio, which was indicative of the filly being able to endure some work during its races, and assessing the most recent start of Tiger Storm, stewards felt that Mr Duffy had erred to some degree by not taking a trail however, did not feel the driver’s degree of culpability warranted action being taken against his licence.

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=MX290618&fromstate=vic

I still say it was simply team driving. The Stanley stable had the lead and the connections other runner was trying to make it hard for the Stewart stable to get up outside their fav

[arlington]

Can't recall ever using the term "hobbyist'. My point is that - too often - everybody is too willing to assume people are crooks in this business. As the Dunn case demonstrates, a professional stable has gone to great lengths to clear its name and not sully its reputation.

It is hugely disappointing to me that, when presented with credible evidence that the three horses in question had been "got at", the RIU showed little or no interest. It believed it had done its job. Just like a speed camera saves lives.

And, yes, I believe this industry has both active participants and followers who are a little to keen to eat there own. That's my opinion, you can choose to agree with me or not. I am not pointing a finger at any individuals.

If this might be comparing apples - take AFL as an example. I'd have no problem agreeing to the eating their own expression. Main stream media commentators, some ex players, ending a player or coach's career due to diminished performance or age. Not too self destructive for the sport, however, this player or coach may never had seen a steroid or peptide.

Myself, I don't mind giving people a chance, one positive swab conviction, ok, one suspension, ok, but not so ok if it's epo etorphine propantheline bromide...

I'm not commenting on the particulars of the Dunn case but as far as having one's reputation sullied, some may need to think about that earlier in their careers.

As Kev suggested, not helped by this type of thing - https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=37650
...included three previous offences in relation to prohibited substances rules
As much as you have your opinion Trevor, there are some quarters who would feel a 12 month disqualification is too harsh for a professional.

12 months isn't a long time before a person's back. Consider those who haven't a sullied reputation. A hobbyist, owner in a pro stable, pro trainer who played by the rules, maybe, even, bar one infringement. In that time a horse/s they have has been turned out due to injury, immaturity etc. They get their horse going again and who is back on the scene? If it's around yearling sales time I can see how the lower end of the market can be hard for vendors.

My words not yours, me, being a hobbyist can feel ripped off in that income not derived from being a professional in the sport has been wasted many times over when a pro comes back from a second or third infringement to earn more income. I don't know about throwing rotten tomatoes or eating their own but it's hard to have empathy.

If there's a notion of betrayal in "eating their own", I wonder who has betrayed whom?

Going a bit further. I often wonder with Kev's odds on thread how, amongst other things, infringements continue to effect our odds. I realise they're tote odds but are the fixed odds that different for the shorties? The books and turnover are more effected by consistency of form but still, overall, the sport's reputation sullied even in the eyes of corporate bookies.

[Messenger]

I had one Bookie tell me that harness racing in Australia has had well over 2,000 odds on favs this year with the number winning a little worse than my Vic June figure while the average price was about 20c better

[aussiebreno]

Like Our Overanova was heaving a heat where winning was not everything tonight. Stablemate won though! Why go back to last like that on the odds on pop?

Subsequent runs show Our Overanova a clearly superior horse. Makes me sick.

[Messenger]

Maybe I am reading it wrong, I took 'the old family house' to mean a house no longer occupied but if it is and the occupants are using Oxazepam - who knows what is possible

The Septic has been found Guilty

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=37701

[Greg Hando]

I know someone who had a pos to a drug and the septic was the culprit. The horses were eating the green pick when it grew.The drug was a human used one for kidney dyalasis the lady who previously owned the property had the kidney complaint.The trainer said after fencing it off the horses would walk all around trying to get into it and sweating, turns they were addicted to the drug.

[Messenger]

That same horse had problems in retirement too Greg ;)

[Richard prior]

Very interesting(Septic)

[Messenger]

I have been away for a week so just catching up with a few races
R7 last Thursday's Silver Vicbred is an interesting one
An inquiry has been adjourned
The Stewards Report includes:

Josh Duggan, driver of Islandspecialmajor was questioned regarding the reasons for Loveisamyth obtaining the position in advance of Islandspecialmajor passing the 1900m. Mr Duggan explained that passing the 2000m he became aware that Keayang Da Vinci, which was racing in advance, had paced roughly and almost broken gait and as a result he was reluctant to trail the runner ahead closely. Mr Duggan further explained that Islandspecialmajor hung in entering the turn and as a result of these two occurrences, Loveisamyth was able to obtain the position in advance of Islandspecialmajor.

Chris Alford, driver of Loveisamyth, was questioned regarding the reasons for Loveisamyth obtaining the position in advance of Islandspecialmajor passing the 1900m and further, his reasons for directing Loveisamyth out to improve three wide without cover approaching the 1100m. Mr Alford explained that he was instructed by connections to drive Loveisamyth forward at the start however, the gelding failed to begin as quickly as anticipated and due to runners drawn to his inside showing superior speed Loveisamyth was caught three wide during the early stages. Mr Alford explained mindful of the instructions issued by connections, he directed Loveisamyth out three wide to improve when runners drawn behind commenced to improve forward. This matter was adjourned to allow Stewards the opportunity to review the explanations tendered by Mr Duggan and Mr Alford and review any other relevant matter.

Both horses are from the Lilley stable so the above is the long form of saying that they were 'team driving' and suggesting it was always Alford's role to cart Duggan's horse up
This will be a real test of our integrity as it involves our leading driver

The other strange one at this meet was R3 where Ryan Duffy chose not to use the sprint lane and copped 4 weeks for this brain freeze

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=MX120718

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX120718&ms=vic

[Messenger]

Shep July 17

"RACE 9 – HUNTERS HOME HARDWARE PACE (2190 MS)

Stewards opened an inquiry into the running of this race where evidence was taken from Robert Walters, trainer of Paddy Mach and trainer/driver of Kash NZ, Nathan Jack, driver of Paddy Mach and Peter White stablehand assisting Mr Walters.

In light of the significant concerns held by Stewards regarding the conduct of this race, Mr Walters was issued with a direction to provide his mobile telephone to Stewards in order for forensic analysis to be undertaken. Upon being issued this direction Mr Walters advised Stewards that his mobile telephone was not present on the racecourse.

Stewards subsequently conducted a search of Mr Walters, his racing gear and his vehicle which uncovered his mobile telephone. The mobile telephone was confiscated and has now undergone forensic analysis.

This inquiry has been adjourned to a time and date to be fixed to allow Stewards the opportunity to investigate all relevant matters, including but not limited to, all wagering information and the information gathered through forensic analysis.

An inquiry into the current licence status of Peter White will also be conducted."

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=SP170718

It is going to be difficult to believe anything Robert Walters says - other than Guilty

[Messenger]

I have been away for a week so just catching up with a few races
R7 last Thursday's Silver Vicbred is an interesting one
An inquiry has been adjourned
The Stewards Report includes:

Josh Duggan, driver of Islandspecialmajor was questioned regarding the reasons for Loveisamyth obtaining the position in advance of Islandspecialmajor passing the 1900m. Mr Duggan explained that passing the 2000m he became aware that Keayang Da Vinci, which was racing in advance, had paced roughly and almost broken gait and as a result he was reluctant to trail the runner ahead closely. Mr Duggan further explained that Islandspecialmajor hung in entering the turn and as a result of these two occurrences, Loveisamyth was able to obtain the position in advance of Islandspecialmajor.

Chris Alford, driver of Loveisamyth, was questioned regarding the reasons for Loveisamyth obtaining the position in advance of Islandspecialmajor passing the 1900m and further, his reasons for directing Loveisamyth out to improve three wide without cover approaching the 1100m. Mr Alford explained that he was instructed by connections to drive Loveisamyth forward at the start however, the gelding failed to begin as quickly as anticipated and due to runners drawn to his inside showing superior speed Loveisamyth was caught three wide during the early stages. Mr Alford explained mindful of the instructions issued by connections, he directed Loveisamyth out three wide to improve when runners drawn behind commenced to improve forward. This matter was adjourned to allow Stewards the opportunity to review the explanations tendered by Mr Duggan and Mr Alford and review any other relevant matter.

Both horses are from the Lilley stable so the above is the long form of saying that they were 'team driving' and suggesting it was always Alford's role to cart Duggan's horse up
This will be a real test of our integrity as it involves our leading driver

The other strange one at this meet was R3 where Ryan Duffy chose not to use the sprint lane and copped 4 weeks for this brain freeze

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=MX120718

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX120718&ms=vic

It has been 3 weeks now - has anybody seen a result for the Adjourned Inquiry?

[Messenger]

Rackemup Tigerpie received a QIP for his win at Melton
LOL he had won 2 of his previous 3 starts
After tonight's win he has won 4 of his last 6

[Dot]

Think you might be being a bit harsh Kev, it won a $20k race tonight at better then 40 to 1, it's three previous wins were in a $5k and 2 $7k races at much much shorter odds. One of its defeats was at more then 50 to 1 in a $15k race. I think the punters probably think it improved tonight too.

[Messenger]

So Dot, you and the stewards incorrectly thought that Tigerpie was not a winning chance/only making up the numbers.
What if he got a dream run and the race was more or less an 800m sprint
The defeat you talk about (4 starts ago before a freshen up) was not a shocker (beaten 10m) and included a $1.30 pop who made last night's favourite 2nd pick at $4.40. That race was a mere 400m sprint so you are not going to make ground from back in the field when they finish in 26.8. Tigerpie came out at the same track at its very next start and rated 3.3 secs faster over a slightly longer trip
Odds have little to do with it but did you notice that he was 5th favourite last night :D

I think he drew well and got a dream run which helped him get up in a 4way go
I still say the QIP was ridiculous - and should not be something stewards do to appease disappointed punters

[Showgrounds]

Must have been a very quiet night in the Stewards Room and they needed something to do to justify the tea and bikkies!

[Dot]

So Dot, you and the stewards incorrectly thought that Tigerpie was not a winning chance/only making up the numbers.
What if he got a dream run and the race was more or less an 800m sprint
The defeat you talk about (4 starts ago before a freshen up) was not a shocker (beaten 10m) and included a $1.30 pop who made last night's favourite 2nd pick at $4.40. That race was a mere 400m sprint so you are not going to make ground from back in the field when they finish in 26.8. Tigerpie came out at the same track at its very next start and rated 3.3 secs faster over a slightly longer trip
Odds have little to do with it but did you notice that he was 5th favourite last night :D

I think he drew well and got a dream run which helped him get up in a 4way go
I still say the QIP was ridiculous - and should not be something stewards do to appease disappointed punters

No Kev I never think any horse is just making up the numbers and no chance of winning, just all horses chances are proportional to a combination of ability and circumstances in running. It isn't me that focus's on fast times and track records, I always say they are pretty meaningless without the context of the race. Beaten runs can often be far superior performance to that of the winner. The winner is often the horse that gets the advantage in running. Glad to see your watching races Kev not just looking at times, take a look at the 2yo at Pinjarra last week, the mark goes to a very good ARRD colt but the run of the race was the unheralded leader for an example.

Wasn't it you Kev in another thread said that we are a business? Doesn't that mean we should take care of the needs and expectations of our clients, the punters? Even if that means appeasing them at times?

[Messenger]

I am shocked Dot - you mean the winner is not always the best run in the race!
Now I understand why the same horse does not win every time :eek:

I started a thread on Outstanding Times - does that mean I only follow fast times?
On that reckoning I would only follow Fast horses with Brilliant names that are Well Related and are either Long Odds or Odds On ;)

[Dot]

And who knows Kev, you might turn a tidy profit on the punt doing so! Though I think Paul's plan to bet against odds on favs produced by other then the top three stables on betfair is the better strategy.

[Messenger]

Check out the horses at the rear of the field when they enter the straight in the R4 trot at Swan Hill last night
Ashley Ainsworth seems to have got a little angry at being given a flat tyre
Stewards apparently gave him 15mths - some think he got off light

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=FD160818&ms=vic#FDC16081808

[Beltane]

Disgraceful, needs anger management counselling.

[Messenger]

The stewards' report

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=FD160818

[Messenger]

It has been 3 weeks now - has anybody seen a result for the Adjourned Inquiry?

It has now been 6 weeks - why would an adjourned inquiry take so long? (see post 401)

[Messenger]

With Gaita's record I would have expected 12 years not 12 months

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/PULLICINO%20Gaita%20-%20HRV%20RAD%20Board%20decision.pdf

[Showgrounds]

Seems to be an addiction. Can't say anymore as the RAD would not comment on the evidence given by the psychologist.

[gutwagon]

There is no place in our industry for people like this. She should be banned for life so that she can find another occupation !

[Showgrounds]

Agree, but do you honestly think that would work? Seems incapable of grasping the reality that the game has moved on from her ways long ago.

[Messenger]

I have been away for a week so just catching up with a few races
R7 last Thursday's Silver Vicbred is an interesting one
An inquiry has been adjourned
The Stewards Report includes:

Josh Duggan, driver of Islandspecialmajor was questioned regarding the reasons for Loveisamyth obtaining the position in advance of Islandspecialmajor passing the 1900m. Mr Duggan explained that passing the 2000m he became aware that Keayang Da Vinci, which was racing in advance, had paced roughly and almost broken gait and as a result he was reluctant to trail the runner ahead closely. Mr Duggan further explained that Islandspecialmajor hung in entering the turn and as a result of these two occurrences, Loveisamyth was able to obtain the position in advance of Islandspecialmajor.

Chris Alford, driver of Loveisamyth, was questioned regarding the reasons for Loveisamyth obtaining the position in advance of Islandspecialmajor passing the 1900m and further, his reasons for directing Loveisamyth out to improve three wide without cover approaching the 1100m. Mr Alford explained that he was instructed by connections to drive Loveisamyth forward at the start however, the gelding failed to begin as quickly as anticipated and due to runners drawn to his inside showing superior speed Loveisamyth was caught three wide during the early stages. Mr Alford explained mindful of the instructions issued by connections, he directed Loveisamyth out three wide to improve when runners drawn behind commenced to improve forward. This matter was adjourned to allow Stewards the opportunity to review the explanations tendered by Mr Duggan and Mr Alford and review any other relevant matter.

Both horses are from the Lilley stable so the above is the long form of saying that they were 'team driving' and suggesting it was always Alford's role to cart Duggan's horse up
This will be a real test of our integrity as it involves our leading driver

The other strange one at this meet was R3 where Ryan Duffy chose not to use the sprint lane and copped 4 weeks for this brain freeze

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=MX120718

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX120718&ms=vic

The result

"During the adjournment Trainers representative Mr Bevan Kelly was interviewed relative to the instructions issued to Mr Alford where the instructions were confirmed to be to drive Loveisamyth forward if possible.

Extensive review of the wagering information was undertaken which failed to identify any area of concern.

Upon consideration of the matters Stewards could not be satisfied that the actions of Mr Duggan at the 1900 were unacceptable as it was evident Keayang Da Vinci, which was positioned in advance, had paced very roughly on two occasions and Islandspecialmajor hung in rounding the first turn which resulted in Islandspecialmajor being positioned closer to the marker pegs and Loveisamyth being able to gain purchase on the position as a consequence.

Stewards could not be satisfied that the tactics adopted by Mr Alford were entirely unreasonable in the circumstances. In arriving at this decision Stewards were mindful of the instructions issued and the minimal use made of Loveisamyth prior to improving three wide."

Laughable - have a look at how interested Alford (4) was in taking up a forward position coming off the gate
and he then remembered that he was supposed to take up a forward position a lap later (or when his stablemate was ready to make a move)

https://www-harness-org-au.akamaized.net/vic/MXC12071801.mp4

Sure he is our leading driver but if you are going to allow team driving you are undermining the integrity of our sport

[Messenger]

The adjourned inquiry for R5 at Mildura last night might make interesting reading in the future
I heard that the dueling continued off the track
Amazing that the fav still nearly won despite all the work

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ML060918&ms=vic#MLC06091802

[Showgrounds]

Meanwhile, up at Wodonga Magistrates' Court today............

https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/driver-nathan-jack-and-two-others-guilty-in-harness-race-fixing/news-story/c7490630a6a03db315a66e36da65cd26

[Messenger]

Nathan Jack again (& David Aiken) - from April 7 - it sure does take a long time to resolve things in Vic

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/AIKEN%20David%20&%20JACK%20Nathan%20-%20HRV%20RAD%20Board%20-%20Media%20Release.pdf

[Dot]

Wonder why I get the feeling only one of them will be paying their fines to HRV......

[KTQ]

There's been a slew of arsenic positives in WA the last couple weeks. Isn't it about time trainers found an alternate solution to pine posts?

[gutwagon]

KTQ I think we all know that the pine posts have very little to do with the positives !

[KTQ]

Precisely. At what point do the stewards say from X date, pine posts will no longer be considered an excuse for a high arsenic reading.

[Messenger]

I fear the burden of proof is on the 'accuser' and while treated pine posts are legal it would be up to the stewards/authorities to prove the arsenic was the result of something else

[Dot]

Nonsense Kev, the authorities ( in harness racing) do not have to prove the arsenic is from something else, they can convict and punish trainers solely on the basis that the sample has returned a reading over the threshold. At present though the authorities are acknowledging that the keeping of horses on rural properties where they have access to treated pine posts is a significant contributor to the number of positives for arsenic, and acting accordingly. But changes do need to be made, the threshold raised if determined appropriate and a line drawn for when pine posts are no longer considered an acceptable excuse or are no longer part of the problem.

Katie I thought you would have appreciated the cost of safe fencing for horses and that pine posts have been a ubiquitous part of rural fencing for horses for decades now, and it's not necessarily an easy or inexpensive task to change large amounts of fencing. That said there are apparently plastic sleeves available for pine posts at around $8 a sleeve I'm told. Perhaps where trainers have significant numbers of pine posts on their property rather then fining them the authorities should direct that the money be spent on altering the fencing to prevent access and receipts and other evidence of doing so be provided to authorites.

Rick I for one don't know that the pine posts have nothing to do with the positives. I'd be very interested to hear where you think, or should I say know they are coming from? I have it on good authority that the WA authorities can distinguish between arsenic originating from fence posts and arsenic from other sources. RWWA appears to be leading the push to lift the threshold, do you all think they would be doing that if they had prima facie evidence of wrong doing on the part of their participants with positive swabs?

[KTQ]

Certainly updating fencing is no cheap undertaking. Perhaps RWWA could redirect a portion of fines revenue towards a fund to wrap posts on trainer properties that have a high number of pine posts. There are not that many trainers in WA at least and there are hundreds of dollars of revenue in fines generated each week that would easily cover this over the course of a season or two.

[Messenger]

Nonsense Kev, the authorities ( in harness racing) do not have to prove the arsenic is from something else, they can convict and punish trainers solely on the basis that the sample has returned a reading over the threshold. At present though the authorities are acknowledging that the keeping of horses on rural properties where they have access to treated pine posts is a significant contributor to the number of positives for arsenic, and acting accordingly. But changes do need to be made, the threshold raised if determined appropriate and a line drawn for when pine posts are no longer considered an acceptable excuse or are no longer part of the problem.

Katie I thought you would have appreciated the cost of safe fencing for horses and that pine posts have been a ubiquitous part of rural fencing for horses for decades now, and it's not necessarily an easy or inexpensive task to change large amounts of fencing. That said there are apparently plastic sleeves available for pine posts at around $8 a sleeve I'm told. Perhaps where trainers have significant numbers of pine posts on their property rather then fining them the authorities should direct that the money be spent on altering the fencing to prevent access and receipts and other evidence of doing so be provided to authorites.

Rick I for one don't know that the pine posts have nothing to do with the positives. I'd be very interested to hear where you think, or should I say know they are coming from? I have it on good authority that the WA authorities can distinguish between arsenic originating from fence posts and arsenic from other sources. RWWA appears to be leading the push to lift the threshold, do you all think they would be doing that if they had prima facie evidence of wrong doing on the part of their participants with positive swabs?

I may have overstated my opinion Dot but my highlighting in your post amounts to the same thing

[Greg Hando]

I have never seen a horse chew one of the treated posts chip a bit of and suck it and you will see why it tastes bad

[Dot]

To us maybe Greg, but not to them, and it appears to have an addictive tendacy to it. I don't know how to post pics on the forum but happy to send pics of plenty of equine chewed posts to Kev to put up if you like.

[Showgrounds]

Arsenic can be absorbed through the skin, as I found out to my detriment a quarter century ago. I had a weanling filly in our paddock which was next door to a treated pine post mill and treatment plant.

She was a good healthy filly but became noticeable ill after every time it rained. After racing her to an equine hospital one day, blood tests showed abnormally high levels of arsenic. We then noted stormwater from the timber treatment plant ran straight into our paddocks; I had seen the filly splashing in the puddles a day and a half before she took ill. Subsequent soil and water (from the puddles) tests revealed high levels of arsenic present. Vets drew the conclusion she had absorbed the arsenic through her hooves and coronary bands.

We removed the filly and never allowed another horse in those paddocks. The old CCA (copper, chromium , arsenate) treated posts have been banned for about a decade and I would imaging most arsenic had leached out of any posts in the ground of that age by now. However, it is likely to still be found in the soil and, as I learned, horses don't have to ingest arsenic through the mouth for it to enter their blood stream.

[Dot]

CCA treated timber is not banned but is not permitted to be used in the construction or repair of structures that humans have high contact with, such as playground equipment, garden furniture, patio and railings, etc. It is permitted to be used in livestock fencing, power poles, landscaping etc.

Whilst arsenic does leach out of it the arsenic is usually contained in the immediate vicinity of the timber, and the timber will still contain significant amounts of arsenic 20 years or more after manufacture.

[gutwagon]

Dot, I read somewhere that there were drenches of synthetic growth hormones that contained arsenic being used. Just rumors of course.
Greg, I had a horse that loved chewing pine posts, can't say that he actually swallowed any of it, just loved chewing them. Trainer was complaining about all the posts in his paddock being destroyed. He was racing while doing this and never returned a positive. They were old posts and this was just last year.

[Greg Hando]

I believe you Dot just never seen one do it on the farm, perhaps they weren't bored enough.

[Messenger]

12mths for John Justice

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/JUSTICE%20John%20-%20RAD%20Board%20Media%20Release1.pdf

[Messenger]

JJ and Gaita both got a stay of proceedings as they have appealed to VCAT

[Messenger]

An interesting reversal of placing for 1st and 2nd in the main race of the night at Ballarat tonight
They do not yet have their sprint lane (coming for ID night)
But Greg Sugars saw that there was just room for sulky to get up the inside of Craig Demmler
The head on at the end of the replay confirms there was at one point and as we cannot match it up with the side on we must assume the stewards saw that Sugars had established the run before Demmler came back down a bit
I thought Upanatom was going to get up but I didn't think it was totally clear cut

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA051018&fromstate=vic#BAC05101801

[Messenger]

Has anyone been able to find Stewards wrap using thetrots.com.au ?
harness.org.au is going to be my go to page from now on as the News on the Vic page (supposedly ALL news) seems to be missing Stewards Wrap - correct me if I am wrong

[gutwagon]

You are correct Kevin, no Stewards wrap on the Vic page.

[Messenger]

I would not be surprised if HRV are adopting a 'Don't air your dirty laundry' policy but if you do not put it in News you have to at least have it right below Stewards Reports under the Racing tab

[Messenger]

Congratulations to the stewards for doing their utmost to guarantee a clean Inter.
If the charges are proven the offenders from Ellen Tormey's stable should receive the maximum penalty possible for blotting Inter night

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38920

[Messenger]

We are an understanding lot
The Inter is a further 2 runners short (actually 4 with the 2 lame ones)
Butt for breaching the rules we let the Butt stable off with a mere $1,000 fine

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38934

[Dot]

Not as understanding as you may think Kev. The stewards are copping a fair hammering on twitter for scratching the horses, predominantly from punters. ( though I know that’s not what you meant)

It seems very few out there understand that Tim Butt would not have been denied permission to have blood tests done after his horses sub par runs but that he needed to get permission from stewards before extracting the blood, which then would have occurred as a minimum under the supervision of stewards and perhaps using a HRV vet.

Very poor form for a highly successful and experienced Trainer.

[gutwagon]

We are an understanding lot
The Inter is a further 2 runners short (actually 4 with the 2 lame ones)
Butt for breaching the rules we let the Butt stable off with a mere $1,000 fine

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38934
Also had the horses taken out of the series Kevin, but I agree still not a big enough penalty.
Punters should be directing their anger at Butt not the stewards. Trainers are meant to know all the rules. With the short turn around between heats they will have to be very cautious about giving any treatments to horses.

[Yabbie]

L
Congratulations to the stewards for doing their utmost to guarantee a clean Inter.
If the charges are proven the offenders from Ellen Tormey's stable should receive the maximum penalty possible for blotting Inter night

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38920

Interesting though that there has been no report on results of numerous blood tests taken from Boss Man on the night....
Would that be because they didn’t find anything??

[arlington]

L

Interesting though that there has been no report on results of numerous blood tests taken from Boss Man on the night....
Would that be because they didn’t find anything??

Why is that interesting Carol?
Do you believe the stewards, analysis, has to find anything under the rule? Just asking.

[Messenger]

I wonder how it was that Glenn Douglas was asked for evidence.

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=MX011218

[Yabbie]

Why is that interesting Carol?
Do you believe the stewards, analysis, has to find anything under the rule? Just asking.

Just don’t believe Ellen is that stupid. She advised stewards that treatment was given to another horse not racing on first heats night. I understand the reason for scratching but if they found nothing in blood tests it leaves a pretty sour taste for all connections with results not being published.

[Dot]

As I understand it Carol the matter is still under investigation. There is more to be investigated then just the blood test results taken on the night. A prohibited substance positive is not required to breach the rule. No slight on Ellen but wouldn’t you expect every trainer to say it was another horse that was treated, both the honest who would be telling the truth, and the dishonest who would be attempting to cover up their wrong doing? Rightly or wrongly I doubt anything further would be released until the whole investigation has been concluded, which may take several weeks.

[Messenger]

Somebody told me to have a look at the start of Our Millionaire's track record win at YV today
Why did the starter let them go when both 1&2 were so far off the gate - to the detriment of 8 ($1.30 fav) & 9

Chris Alford was even more of a hinderance to the fav as he did not try to get 2 going
Consequently the Stewart stable got a very handy start on the winner

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=YG141218#YGC14121807

[Messenger]

The starter seemed to be very obliging in R7 at Kilmore on Thursday night too
As you will note in the Stewards report:

A false start was declared when Beach Babe Nikky refused to score up. At the restart Beach Babe Nikky again refused to score up. As a result Beach Babe Nikky will continue to remain outside the draw for future mobile start races. Beach Babe Nikky took no competitive part in the race and was subsequently stood down from racing until the completion of one satisfactory trial.

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=KI100119

Why was a false start declared the first time (and the race shafted to Sky2) when the offending Stewart/Alford horse was ODM and drawn 7 of 7 and caused no interference?

[gutwagon]

The starter seemed to be very obliging in R7 at Kilmore on Thursday night too
As you will note in the Stewards report:

A false start was declared when Beach Babe Nikky refused to score up. At the restart Beach Babe Nikky again refused to score up. As a result Beach Babe Nikky will continue to remain outside the draw for future mobile start races. Beach Babe Nikky took no competitive part in the race and was subsequently stood down from racing until the completion of one satisfactory trial.

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=KI100119

Why was a false start declared the first time (and the race shafted to Sky2) when the offending Stewart/Alford horse was ODM and drawn 7 of 7 and caused no interference?
Needs to be an inquiry into this , can't bend the rules for favorites or certain stables . Starter can't call a false start for no valid reason.

[Messenger]

FLORIST done in by PLANTS :eek:

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39319

[Dot]

Not only the punters on twitter curious about the scratching of Perfect Major it would appear

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39400

[Messenger]

With considerable backing for the emergency before it got a run you would expect questions to be asked if it was All In betting

[Messenger]

Somebody that watched Shep R5 on TrotsVision emailed me that:

ODM (11) odds on fav for Emma Stewart with a junior driver was circling on the second row but as the horses were called forward for the score up it is facing the opposite direction and refuses to turn back to score up - in fact it starts to head the wrong way.
The Junior driver raises his arm and turns to look towards the mobile, presumably calling out (cannot be sure as no sound on Trotsvision yet).
The camera goes back to the main body of field as they begin to score up, Chris Alford on the 3 (Wayne Potters) has jumped out of the cart and gone to his horses head (no clerk in sight) and started fiddling with the gear, stopping the start and causing a short delay.
The gear is suddenly right again on the 3 and Alford jumps back in the bike and the score up re-commences. It is not on camera but presumably this coincides with Stewart’s horse facing the right way again and moving toward the start as it catches the field

This is how one person saw it. We cannot see a replay.

They said it will be interesting to see what the Steward's report has to say

[Messenger]

The Stewards saw no connection

RACE 5 – COUNTRY WEEK LEGEND CHRIS RYE PACE (3RD HEAT) (1690 MS)

Liftntorque was fractious in the score up, out of position when the start was affected and will continue to be drawn wide in future mobile starting events.

Four Lonely Nights began badly and will be placed out of the draw in future mobile starting events. Four Lonely Nights then trailed the field thereafter.

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=SP130219

[Dot]

That reads that the stewards saw nothing at the start at all Kev, or I should say more accurately records nothing about the actions of the starter or Chris Alford after the starter has called the horses forward off the circle. Of course none of us that have been in the red hots for years would think for a second that a wily old driver would engage in a little “gamesmanship” to the advantage of his principle source of income.

[arlington]

The starter may have called the start off, as is required when a horse is facing the wrong way, rather than C Alford "stopping the start".
If the mobile had only just started rolling I could see how the starter could recommence a start if the remaining horses maintained some sort of orderly formation. The possibility of that - the starter and chief steward, who is communicating with the starter, try to avoid the race being booted to Sky2.
Just an interpretation, only watched the race on Sky.

[Messenger]

Would the red light have come on if he called the start off Wayne? The emailer said that there was no false start (why I edited my earlier post)

[Dot]

I understand what your saying Wayne, and presumably the race was on Sky 1 and we obviously don’t want to be bumped to Sky2 but shouldn’t the stewards report be an accurate record of events. There’s no indication of any interruption of any kind to the start because of the fractious nature of of one of the runners, just that it was fractious, nor any record of Chris Alford having exited the sulky after the runners commenced to move off from the prerace formation under the instructions of the starter to make a late gear adjustment.

[arlington]

Would the red light have come on if he called the start off Wayne? The emailer said that there was no false start (why I edited my earlier post)

Was mainly suggesting the start would more than likely have been interrupted or stopped by the horse facing the opposite way, not C Alford as conveyed.

If the mobile had only just taken up it's position and horses just started to peel off, the start could be called off at that stage, paused, not abandoned. Not a false start.
Had the mobile started to roll? From the Sky vision it looked like the mobile was in it's normal staging position for the 1690m start.

There are times when second row horses are late turning to face the right way after the starter says "we're going up" (to the mobile). The front row horses have commenced to go up. The starter will convey what's going on to the drivers, adding something like "take it easy". If all wasn't righted on the second row I would imagine that start would be called off but it not be a false start, no red light.
I've been in a race where track attendants noticed a horse had one of it's legs out of a hobble loop as the horses started to peel. It was corrected, a false start wasn't warranted and I don't think it was commented on in the stewards report.

[Messenger]

Isn't Booker Bay R2 No2 at Kilmore tomorrow supposed to be ODM

http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?mc=KI250219&rc=KIC25021907

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=GD040219&fromstate=sa

[arlington]

Isn't Booker Bay R2 No2 at Kilmore tomorrow supposed to be ODM

http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?mc=KI250219&rc=KIC25021907

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=GD040219&fromstate=sa


Would have gone back to the trials Kev.

[Adaptor]

Stewards Report for Bendigo last Thursday.
Race 7
Hayden Gray suspended for 6 months with a $5,000 fine.

[Messenger]

Haydon Gray, driver of Rigondeaux, pleaded guilty to a charge under Rule 168(1)(g) which states:

A person shall not before, during or after a race drive in a manner which is in the opinion of the stewards likely to endanger person or horse.

The particulars of the charge being that when pulling up at the completion of the race Mr Gray drove in a manner which in the opinion of the Stewards was likely to endanger person or horse by intentionally directing Rigondeaux outwards resulting in the gelding making contact with the outside fence and as a result of the contact the gelding suffered a laceration to the bottom lip and the sulky of Mr Gray becoming unbalanced resulting in him being momentarily unseated. In assessing penalty Stewards took into account the relevant considerations as outlined within the HRV StewardsMinimum Penalty Guidelines placing weight on Mr Gray’s guilty plea and the circumstances of this incident, specifically that injury occurred to Rigondeaux and the completely unnecessary nature of the incident. Stewards further were mindful that any penalty must demonstrate that safety and welfare of horse and driver is paramount and such conduct will not be condoned. Stewards accordingly imposed a 6 month suspension of Mr Gray’s licence to drive in races and a $5,000 fine. This suspension was ordered to commence immediately.

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=BN210219

It is Race 9. If there was ever a repeat offence it should invoke 6 years.
ps He is a part owner of the horse

[Messenger]

Why are NSW so slow with their stewards reports?
Of course todays are not going to be posted yet but if you look at this link

https://www.hrnsw.com.au/racing/results

You will see that 10 of the last 13 meets reports have not been posted yet - they are about a half dozen behind what an efficient department should be capable of

[Messenger]

Haydon Gray, driver of Rigondeaux, pleaded guilty to a charge under Rule 168(1)(g) which states:

A person shall not before, during or after a race drive in a manner which is in the opinion of the stewards likely to endanger person or horse.

The particulars of the charge being that when pulling up at the completion of the race Mr Gray drove in a manner which in the opinion of the Stewards was likely to endanger person or horse by intentionally directing Rigondeaux outwards resulting in the gelding making contact with the outside fence and as a result of the contact the gelding suffered a laceration to the bottom lip and the sulky of Mr Gray becoming unbalanced resulting in him being momentarily unseated. In assessing penalty Stewards took into account the relevant considerations as outlined within the HRV StewardsMinimum Penalty Guidelines placing weight on Mr Gray’s guilty plea and the circumstances of this incident, specifically that injury occurred to Rigondeaux and the completely unnecessary nature of the incident. Stewards further were mindful that any penalty must demonstrate that safety and welfare of horse and driver is paramount and such conduct will not be condoned. Stewards accordingly imposed a 6 month suspension of Mr Gray’s licence to drive in races and a $5,000 fine. This suspension was ordered to commence immediately.

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=BN210219

It is Race 9. If there was ever a repeat offence it should invoke 6 years.
ps He is a part owner of the horse

I qualify the above post in that 6yrs should be if the incident involved malice
I must say that I assumed the contact in this case was intentional based on the strong 6 month penalty
but have been informed by another owner that it was not so and that turning horses into the fence is a common practice
Maybe an appeal will be forthcoming

[Messenger]

I qualify the above post in that 6yrs should be if the incident involved malice
I must say that I assumed the contact in this case was intentional based on the strong 6 month penalty
but have been informed by another owner that it was not so and that turning horses into the fence is a common practice
Maybe an appeal will be forthcoming

Hmmm then again maybe not - he got 6 months even with a concession for pleading guilty

[Dot]

Which as I understand it Kev is the minimum sentence permitted under the penalty guidelines for the charge issued on the night which would suggest the stewards did not see a high level of culpability in his actions.

There is conjecture elsewhere as to if the right charge for what occurred was leveled on the night, all of which may be subject to appeal

[arlington]

Which as I understand it Kev is the minimum sentence permitted under the penalty guidelines for the charge issued on the night which would suggest the stewards did not see a high level of culpability in his actions.

There is conjecture elsewhere as to if the right charge for what occurred was leveled on the night, all of which may be subject to appeal


For my education:
- Having any penalty reduced to the minimum by a guilty plea shouldn't be seen as the stewards deeming a low level of culpability?
- What could an alternative charge be Dot?

[Dot]

Don’t know if the penalty was reduced to the minimum by the guilty plea Wayne, as I understand it pleading guilty results in a entitlement to a discount to the sentence, not necessarily a discount to the minimum sentence. Without seeing the incident it’s difficult to know just what happened and and the degree of culpability. The talk of an alternative charge along with 6 months being the minimum on this charge was on twitter shortly after the incident and I can’t recall now just what alternative charge was suggested. There was also a reference to the disparity in penalty for this incident in comparison to a year or so ago when Lisa Bartley drove into another horse and driver after a race and received 6 weeks.

The stewards may have it entirely right Wayne or they may not, that’s what the appeal process is for.

[arlington]

Goes without saying, everyone has the right to appeal. I wasn't debating that Dot, sure, if Haydon believes he's been wronged he can access the appeal process.

If a participant had a good record in relation to rule breaches, you couldn't envisage, let's say, a 30% reduction on a guilty plea but that wouldn't mean the stewards didn't take a very dim view of your actions, still highly culpable? What would a comment such as the completely unnecessary nature of the incident mean in a stewards report? And yes, I presume the stewards viewed it.

Yep, there are a few subclauses to rule 168, and once again Haydon has the right to appeal but, would you compare the Lisa Bartley incident with this one, as reported by the stewards Dot?

What I wondered about was the idea of it being a common practice. I can completely understand if you've lost control of a horse the only alternative left might be to turn the horse into the fence. Is that where you were going with Which as I understand it Kev is the minimum sentence permitted under the penalty guidelines for the charge issued on the night which would suggest the stewards did not see a high level of culpability in his actions.
In that case the Lisa Bartley reference would be irrelevant.

[Dot]

Ok I’ve had a bit more of a look at Vics penalty guidelines, it’s is difficult to keep clear having previously raced in NSW, currently racing in WA and having horses race in Vic as there is a lack of uniformity. For anyone doubting that look at the drive that Sid Van de Brande was recently suspended 8 weeks for at Terang and one the night before from Mark Reed at GP that only resulted in a query driving tactics.

Under Vics guidelines stewards will apply a discount for an early guilty plea but the amount of the discount is not specified. In NSW which I’m more familiar with a standard 25% applied for an early guilty plea regardless of offence or record which Micheal Beatty explained when he introduced it was in keeping with the courts. Charges under other rules in Vics guidelines permit the stewards to consider degree of carelessness or culpability and reduce or increase the penalty from the starting point but not under the rule applied in this case. Consequently the starting point was 9 months and along with the guilty plea Hayden must have met the other criteria in the guidelines that permit a discount ( interestingly driver experience is considered under the guidelines for determing penalty but it is not specified whether this can increase the penalty or only reduce it as the other criteria do) and the stewards applied a 33.3% discount to reduce the starting penalty to the minimum. Whether this is consistent with other penalty discounts applied by stewards Wayne I’m not familiar with enough other instances in Vic to know. But as under this rule the stewards can not amend the starting point either way for degree of carelessness or culpability it isn’t possible to assess from the information available whether they viewed Hayden actions with a high or low level of culpability.

I not actually familiar with the Lisa Bartley case, I bought it up here, as I wrote, it had been discussed elsewhere in comparison to this one. And I say again I did not see what actually occurred with Hayden Gray. It may indeed have no relevance.

“What would a comment such as the completely unnecessary nature of the incident mean in a stewards report?” It may mean exactly that Wayne. It certainly means in the stewards opinion the incident was of a completely unnecessary nature. You say Wayne that you can “completely understand if you've lost control of a horse the only alternative left might be to turn the horse into the fence.” I can completely understand that in order to prevent the loss of control of a horse and possibly serious risk of injury to horse or driver from being out of control someone might steer into the fence before that loss of control occurred. I can also say, not in or after a race, but in the context of training on a fenced racetrack for 20 odd years I have on a few occasions steered into the fence to prevent a loss of control and possibly significantly worse outcomes then I’ve adjudged contacting the fence might cause. And I’ve no doubt on one or two of those occasions an observer might have adjudged it to be a completely unnecessary. I have also had horses take charge and run into the fence of their own volition on a few occasions as well. Though I am not saying that any of these things occurred in Hayden Grays case.

Race day hearings are by necessity brief, and consequently not all relevant evidence maybe presented or recorded in the stewards report. The twitter conversation was equally divided between those who felt only 6 years would have been enough of a penalty for Hayden as a horse was injured in the incident to those who felt 6 months was too harsh a penalty for an incident completely out of character for the young driver and that the harm to the horse may have been inadvertent. Can only hope there is an appeal Wayne and all the cards are laid on the table.

[Messenger]

Mildura Capers during and after R5 on Sept 6 last year

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39739
Wayne Cook and David Vozlic

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39738
Shane Furze (part owner of Geronimo Dan)

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39737
Nathan Weightman

You just have to watch this race

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ML060918#MLC06091802

You cannot drive like that and not expect to front the stewards

What a run by the fav

I also noticed that John Justice's 12mths disqualification was affirmed

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39708

[Showgrounds]

From the comfort of my couch, an incompetent drive.

In earlier times it would probably been deemed acceptable for the trainer to have thrown a couple of haymakers at the driver, especially for that drive. Now deemed non-PC.

Amazing it has taken all of 6 months to come to light.

[Messenger]

I received an email as to whether Tin Roof Raider was given a fair start in R2 at Melton on Saturday
He had made a mistake himself but being one off the fence on the second line was he ever going to be able to get in position with the 2 horse being way off the gate?
Maybe the starter should have considered a false start to ensure complete clarity
Maybe the stable didn't have much on the fav or they would have protested or maybe they thought it was fair enough?
What do you think?

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX020319

[Dot]

With 9 and 10 scratched doesn’t the 11 score up beside the 8 Kev? Tin Roof Raiders driver wasn’t fined for scoring up in the wrong barrier position but the 2s driver was fined for being out of position. If he scored up in the right place it didn’t look to me that the 11 got a fair start.

[Messenger]

Are we both saying that TRR was supposed to be behind the 2?

[Dot]

I think so, too much time in the hot sun and I read your little mistake as being behind the 2.

[Messenger]

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39797

Sadly this sounds very similar to a case just a few years back and that bloke is now considered an industry mentor

[gutwagon]

Kevin, the person in that link should never have been allowed back into the industry after his prison stint. Lets hope he gets 20 plus years.

[Messenger]

I remember covering his return Rick .
It has been suggested that the Glenn Douglas mere 6mth penalty is going to make it difficult for a finding of guilty to result in anything more than a year

[aussiebreno]

NRLs new no fault policy and how this stands up for De Belin should be a point of interest for the harness world. I wonder if we can adopt something similar should it stand up in court for the NRL.

[gutwagon]

Kevin, I say give him one year then test the new rules when he wants his licence back. He would have to qualify as a person not fit to have a licence.

[Messenger]

R3 Ouyen last Sunday

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=OU240319#OUC24031912

Certainly attracted some attention

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=OU240319

[Messenger]

The late scratchings at Bendigo last night of
Hanging On A Dream trained by Jennifer Douglas
and Brocks Best trained by Keith Douglas
were as a result of concerns that the horses may have been treated in breach of the rules.

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39976

[Messenger]

Amend the record books everybody

Sky Petite no longer finished 2nd in the 2018 Inter Dominion Trotting Championship Grand Final

The first charge under AHRR 190(1) related to a urine sample collected from the
horse ‘Sky Petite’ after it finished second in Race 7, the ‘TAB Inter Dominion
Trotting Championship Grand Final (Group 1)’, at the Tabcorp Park Melton
harness racing meeting on 15 December 2018. Racing Analytical Services
Limited (RASL) reported that analysis of that urine sample revealed the sample
to contain arsenic in excess of the allowable threshold

Taken from the following pdf link

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/Michael%20Stanley%20-%20HRV%20RAD%20Board%20-%20Media%20Release.pdf

[aussiebreno]

Amend the record books everybody

Sky Petite no longer finished 2nd in the 2018 Inter Dominion Trotting Championship Grand Final

The first charge under AHRR 190(1) related to a urine sample collected from the
horse ‘Sky Petite’ after it finished second in Race 7, the ‘TAB Inter Dominion
Trotting Championship Grand Final (Group 1)’, at the Tabcorp Park Melton
harness racing meeting on 15 December 2018. Racing Analytical Services
Limited (RASL) reported that analysis of that urine sample revealed the sample
to contain arsenic in excess of the allowable threshold

Taken from the following pdf link

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/Michael%20Stanley%20-%20HRV%20RAD%20Board%20-%20Media%20Release.pdf
So does my Tornado Valley/Speeding Spur quinella and exacta get paid out now?

[Messenger]

And the Trifecta and First4 punters would have numbered far more.
The pitfalls of punting

[Messenger]

I wonder whether the stewards confirmed that the 2 horses are actually pine post chewers - IT IS A MAJOR THING TO HAVE AN INTER PLACE-GETTER DISQUALIFIED
Was the horse observed? If not it is a VERY light penalty
Put her in an observation paddock with some nice tasty posts. Put me in a chocolate factory and I would be a goner ;)

[teecee]

[QUOTE- IT IS A MAJOR THING TO HAVE AN INTER PLACE-GETTER DISQUALIFIED

1995 Interdom pacing Grand Final.....(Golden Reign)
Long after all visitors had returned to their homes came the shock announcement that second and third placegetters had returned positive swabs. This latest drama would be a long drawn out process taking months to hold inquiries and to sort through the repercussions of it all. In the finish other horses were elevated to placings in the Inter Dominion Grand Final, months after its conclusion.

https://www.harness.org.au/inter/1995p_chr.htm

[Messenger]

I guess you need the stewards film
They didn't have a problem with the fav getting knocked down in R2 at Kilmore on Monday
But Joanne Justice got 10 weeks for similar interference in R5

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=KI010419

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=KI010419

[thepacingman]

Just don’t believe Ellen is that stupid. She advised stewards that treatment was given to another horse not racing on first heats night. I understand the reason for scratching but if they found nothing in blood tests it leaves a pretty sour taste for all connections with results not being published.

Did anything ever come of this? As far as I can recall don't remember any outcome being publicised. Or is it just sweep it under the carpet and hope people forget.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
VIC - The Boss Man - Late Scratching
01 December 2018

The Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) Stewards advise that The Boss Man was scratched from its engagement in Race 4 at tonight’s Tabcorp Park Melton meeting, a heat of the Trotters Inter Dominion Championship under the provisions of Australian Harness Racing Rule 193(5).

Naomi Malone has also been scratched from Race 9 this evening by Order of the Stewards.

The scratching relates to a raceday stable inspection being performed this afternoon and concerns held that The Boss Man had either been stomach tubed or attempted to be stomach tubed.

Stewards further held concerns that Noami Malone may also have been treated in breach of the rules.

An investigation remains ongoing into this matter and no further comment will be made at this time.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

[Messenger]

I remember covering his return Rick .
It has been suggested that the Glenn Douglas mere 6mth penalty is going to make it difficult for a finding of guilty to result in anything more than a year

Well, they managed to give David Vozlic 2yrs, someone's suggestion of 20yrs would not have been inappropriate if we were ruthlessly pursuing a clean industry

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article?news_id=40125

[Showgrounds]

Well, they managed to give David Vozlic 2yrs, someone's suggestion of 20yrs would not have been inappropriate if we were ruthlessly pursuing a clean industry

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article?news_id=40125

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. One day, somebody in authority will realize this disqualification was the second worst mistake made with Vozlic's training career.

The worst was giving him back his licences in the first place.

[Dot]

Surprise! Not, off to VCAT we go.........

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=40141

[Messenger]

Can I fantasize that VCAT ends up deciding the penalties were too light and doubles them