Another gallops hearing with strong harness racing connections.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/superra...-1227470041802
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Another gallops hearing with strong harness racing connections.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/superra...-1227470041802
It is becoming depressing. One cannot help but wonder whether half the industry is shady
The first 3 cobalt charges in Qld likely to be thrown out today on a technicality.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/superra...-1227471709538
There is a link to story barney.
It means that the 3 will be able to and i expect to be given the right to train again.Another nail in the coffin to the sport i have loved for most of my life sadly im now over it completely
I'm afraid that heads need to roll over this mistake - it is INEXCUSABLE. Does the Qld integrity department have no protocols in place - "Oh we need a second test, let's look up an old yellow pages and stick a pin in the laboratories page"
http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia...-in-Queensland
RQ acting chief executive Ian Hall said:
"it does affect a lot of the past work and reinforces the fact that everyone has to be diligent and dot every ‘i’ and cross every ‘t’ when prosecuting these cases."
Well who would have imagined that you have to dot every i and cross every t when you are prosecuting people Ian!
I'm almost embarassed for Max Presnell if this featherweight piece is the best he can come up with nowadays
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...07-giub0k.html
He is like most gallop writers or commentators who are a part of the propaganda campaign to deflect the seriousness of the illegal use of chemicals in that industry. Ray Thomas said one saturday morning basically its a nothing this cobalt. The failure of authorities to actually deal with the matters in hand one wonders what will be the penalties.........fine, slap on wrist maybe for the Melbourne trainers coming into there BIG time for them. All will be forgotten when they win the big races again therefore almost condoning the use of the chemicals. Its fortunate they weren"t in NSW as they would be stood down by now.
We have far more than the writers to worry about however eg Australian Turf Club executive manager of racing
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...11-giwh0y.html
but at least Vic now has a cobalt testing lab
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...10-givolm.html
just trying to catch up on some reading after 5 weeks off and in this thread there is a common denominator and it seems it just dosnt just lie with the colbalt
http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia...uiry-concluded
7yrs disqualification for Cobalt
I love hrnsw finally some stewards with some balls,this is the only way to get rid of the cheats, not these 6-12 months rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
I like the way they deal with quickly gives a person some confidence in how the sport is run in Nsw unlike Qld and Vic
It is clear that we have to tackle the problem of vets and compounding chemists to have any chance of cleaning up the industry
From todays Age
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...14-giz8wo.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
If we learn anything from history Kev, these are the precedents to "cleansing" whilst retaining reputation, have seen this on many occasions, would like to have a couple of K on this happening at anything better than odds on!
Nothing new really, just Bartley keeping the pressure on
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...17-gj0pdm.html
unfortunately it contains the line
'unlicensed shadowy characters from harness racing'
http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia...ts-Peter-Moody
I can feel a little sympathy for trainers with a single positive test which may appear an anomaly in as far as there may have been a lapse in security or communication and someone other than the trainer has administered cobalt.
The presence of multi suspended offenders also at this gathering is NOT a good look (I am thinking if they were disqualified not suspended, others would not be allowed to meet with them?)
I still believe it is the Vets that we have to reel in - no doubt trainers could be misled by them. It would be a bit like your stockbroker recommending a stock and you trust his expert opinion and take his advice but the stock tanks
if found to be cheating by cobalt or any other way it should be life with no welcome back to the sport as they do now after a small suspension.
I can think of 3 top drivers in NSW who shouldnt be driving but they are and continue to snub their nose at the stewards.
You are never going to get life Robert - you rarely see life for murder nowadays
And this is the reason my life long love for the sport is no longer there.When you see people who who have done the wrong thing and been caught yet still pretend they are innocent.
I agree one strike in the drug using catagory your out for life.
MR.X & MR.Y both get caught & charged with the same offense - MR.X is doing it tough & is in no financial position to fight it - MR.Y has loads of money & or people behind him to fight it & gets off on some crappy loophole...Mr.X cops it on the chin & has to live with the stigma for the rest of his life whilst MR.Y goes about his business & most still think he/she shat dont stink..that is just one of the many scenarios that makes the whole integrity business so difficult to get rightQuote:
Originally Posted by barney
When I see Luda competing in a Group 1 on Breeders Crown day and starting $3.70 I find it hard to take the myth that cobalt makes horses into these super horses and secondly after a 2600 reading surely these poor horses would be wrecked forever. Or maybe there has never been enough testing to understand the short or long term consequences of cobalt. Seems a pretty good example for McDowell and co that this is quite simply a PR exercise for some administrators.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/su...-1227186448490
I'm afraid I am not following your logic at all Jack but before I try harder I would ask if you ok trainers giving horses anything they like from the periodical table if there is little proof as to the consequences - don't limit yourself to proven equine dietary requirements, make up a recipe of whatever you like for their dessertQuote:
Originally Posted by Pena
Luda is no longer positive to cobalt and so your point is?
Your statement that these horses would be wrecked forever (from soon after a positive?) and if not it must mean ? Scientific basis for these assumptions?
Let's say you want to question the consequences of cobalt
I want to question why trainers are giving horses elements they DO NOT NEED
I think it is relatively simple to work out where I am coming from Kevin but I will elaborate for you.
Firstly, the article suggests that this drugged to the eyeballs horse pulled out an amazing run just because of the substance it was given. When in fact the run was far less impressive than subsequent runs when it had no cobalt in its system.
Secondly surely if what authorities say about the toxicity of cobalt and its effect on animal welfare how is this poor horse still one of the best 4 yo mares in Australia especially when she has had one of the highest recorded reading of 2600. Quite simply no real research has been done on either the short or long term effects of cobalt. Infact harness racing authorities sanction the use of cobalt containing substance otherwise they would ban VAM and Hemoplex etc. etc.
Given your theory Jack, how do you explain that the much lauded Hong Kong Jockey Club has invoked a level of just 100 micrograms a litre.
Is your interest in this issue prompted merely by concern or a closer association with a trainer that has returned a positive swab?
Thanks for the explanation Jack as that is much clearer than thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Pena
When I see Luda competing in a Group 1 on Breeders Crown day and starting $3.70 I find it hard to take the myth that cobalt makes horses into these super horses
I do not follow HRNSW so I know little about Luda but I must say you are completely ignoring the horse welfare issue. Just because there would appear to be no short term effects on Luda does not prove much but maybe you are right that more research needs to be done OR is it a waste of money in that it is known that horses need minimal cobalt so stop giving them something they do not need which may or may not be harmful and may or may not be performance enhancing
As usually happens on this forum most people tow the everyone is a cheat and rub them out. No I am not affiliated with one of the stable but actually like to look at the facts and form my own opinion. When I look at the track record of the messiah ruling harness racing in NSW I seriously question the motives of the Cobalt War especially considering what I perceive is a total lack of testing and research. It appears to me the penalty is totally out of proportion with the crime especially as there is such a lack of research. Fill a horse up with pain killer and get 6 months but use the toxic super horse cobalt and get 3 years. Just doesn't make sense to me. Don't get me wrong I do not condone the use of drugs but if you can legally inject a horse with drug 24 hours before the race I do not get how it is any different to bite etc. I seriously question the motives!!!
You seem transfixed on Reid Sanders on this Jack and are completely ignoring that other jurisdictions around the world have already outlawed Cobalt despite this do called lack of scientific evidence.
I like to ignore the facts and form someone else's opinion - no seriously, come on Jack it sounds like you are virtually suggesting that if you can inject a horse legally 24hrs before a race then you should be able to put ANYTHING in the syringe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pena
How The Age summarized the other day's findings
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...01-gjcpgr.html
Jack, still waiting for you to explain why other jurisdictions have also taken a stance against Cobalt when you apparently think they do not have the supporting evidence to do so.
Full credit to Reid Sanders for being proactive and taking the lead in Australia on this issue.
Thanks for the link Kevin , that was actually a decent article. Weather Cobalt is performance enhancing or not is irrelevant. It's a banned substance , Hrv and all racing bodies have the right to ban any substance they like. They don't have to prove its effects . We all agree to abide by their rules when we join the sport.
If Cobalt didn't improve performance people wouldn't be using it !
Kevin, you obviously totally miss the point I am trying to make with regards treatment of horses. The facts are one of HRNSW platforms for introducing a limit is animal welfare. The facts are, and HRNSW own research shows it that a horse treated with an approved supplement if tested close to treatment will get over 200 so the animal welfare line added to examples like Luda, the animal welfare angle is just a big furfee, used to justify ones argument.
Quite frankly I have no time for any of Patrick Bartley's articles. I personally do not think he even likes racing. To start with why would Racing NSW appoint a judge to the hearing. I will give you the tip, its because of the current Supreme Court case with McDowell and Day, not as he states the seriousness of the charges. Who would have thought that Racing NSW would want to make sure their decisions were legally binding.
Rick I am not sure how you maintain that performance is not relevant?? I suggest you read HRNSW penalty guidelines.
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=18370
Their penalty guidelines even state that it is relevant!!
I think it is important that the stewards understand their role. Their job is to enforce the rules as they stand. When stewards step outside and there have been plenty of cases in the past of stewards doing this, normally for the wrong reason but they are also responsible to enforce the rules for the perceived reason. If one innocent person is punished because of the lack of research and evidence I am sorry that is too much for me.
Notwithstanding the issue of improved performance etc. the penalty simply doesn't fit the crime. US trainer got a number of days, Kevin Moses pleaded not guilty - 12 months, Harness Racing in NSW, plead guilty and get 2.5 to 3 years, why the big difference?? If you read the penalty guidelines and tell me how Cobalt given as a vitamin supplement is a Class 1 then, ask yourself why??
That list is 3 years old Jack and it states potential to affect performance. Cobalt does have a potential to affect performance. They don't have to prove it. If you can't play by the rules get out of the game. Stewards have not stepped outside the rules in the Cobalt cases. They have set a limit and are enforcing it .
Why are you so keen to use Cobalt ?
Jack can you provide me with the link to where it says that you can get a cobalt reading of 200 using an approved supplement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pena
Kevin, this is the ridiculous thing about cobalt and its testing, HRNSW did testing at Pepper Tree Stud on brood mares over 12 months ago but have never formally released the results. I have seen the results through a friends ring so I would be more than happy to email them to you if you send me a message with your address. Rick I am sorry if you think I am for the use of cobalt. Surely however any decision that is made should be faced on facts. Any person I have ever known that has had anything to do with horses says the reduction of pain is the best way to make a horse go faster is to reduce pain. At present you could give a horse a registered painkiller and in NSW be classed as a Class 2 as opposed to give a Class 1 such as cobalt that is totally unproven and get 6 times the penalty, sorry but this does not make sense to me.
I would then be summarizing them and posting it on here Jack so couldn't you just tell us what approved products they administered for the tests, whether it was administered in accordance with product instructions and what the results showed?
The study involved administering a product known as ‘Hemo-15’, supplied by Virbac, which is an injectable vitamin supplement that contained the highest level of Cobalt of any registered veterinary product in Australia (0.7 µg/L of Cobalt gluconate and 150 µg/L of vitamin B12).Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
In what Dr Wainscott stated was an ‘unusually intensive’ regime, the horses were injected with Hemo-15 between 8am and 8.30am for the first three days of the trial. Dr Wainscott stated that ‘this was a practise that trainers and veterinarians would almost never have good cause to administer registered products containing cobalt on consecutive days and that such administration would commonly be outside of manufacturer’s recommendations.” http://www.racing.com/news/2015-01-1...balt-threshold
And here is another interesting article, http://www.racing.com/news/2015-01-14/what-is-cobalt
For mine, I'll accept the word of these far more educated people and go with the idea that overloading horses with cobalt may have disastrous effects on them!
That is so comprehensive, thanks Phil
Make sure you read that first link Jack - pretty hard to argue with
- Within 24 hours after a third administration the urinary Cobalt concentrations of all five horses had returned almost to pre-treatment baseline levels.
http://www.racing.com/news/2015-01-1...balt-threshold
Makes me really laugh when I see the defence statements being made by some people who have been caught out with this....( I have to say, many have been busted for other substances) , but try the "my horse must have abnormally high existing levels" bullshit that has been put forward by someone for every new substance found to be administered for the effect of performance enhancement since Ben Hurr raced in the Roman Colluseum!