cobalt

[HISGEN65]

I agree one strike in the drug using catagory your out for life.

MR.X & MR.Y both get caught & charged with the same offense - MR.X is doing it tough & is in no financial position to fight it - MR.Y has loads of money & or people behind him to fight it & gets off on some crappy loophole...Mr.X cops it on the chin & has to live with the stigma for the rest of his life whilst MR.Y goes about his business & most still think he/she shat dont stink..that is just one of the many scenarios that makes the whole integrity business so difficult to get right

[Pena]

When I see Luda competing in a Group 1 on Breeders Crown day and starting $3.70 I find it hard to take the myth that cobalt makes horses into these super horses and secondly after a 2600 reading surely these poor horses would be wrecked forever. Or maybe there has never been enough testing to understand the short or long term consequences of cobalt. Seems a pretty good example for McDowell and co that this is quite simply a PR exercise for some administrators.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/su...-1227186448490

[Messenger]

When I see Luda competing in a Group 1 on Breeders Crown day and starting $3.70 I find it hard to take the myth that cobalt makes horses into these super horses and secondly after a 2600 reading surely these poor horses would be wrecked forever. Or maybe there has never been enough testing to understand the short or long term consequences of cobalt. Seems a pretty good example for McDowell and co that this is quite simply a PR exercise for some administrators.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/su...-1227186448490

I'm afraid I am not following your logic at all Jack but before I try harder I would ask if you ok trainers giving horses anything they like from the periodical table if there is little proof as to the consequences - don't limit yourself to proven equine dietary requirements, make up a recipe of whatever you like for their dessert

Luda is no longer positive to cobalt and so your point is?
Your statement that these horses would be wrecked forever (from soon after a positive?) and if not it must mean ? Scientific basis for these assumptions?

Let's say you want to question the consequences of cobalt
I want to question why trainers are giving horses elements they DO NOT NEED

[Pena]

I think it is relatively simple to work out where I am coming from Kevin but I will elaborate for you.
Firstly, the article suggests that this drugged to the eyeballs horse pulled out an amazing run just because of the substance it was given. When in fact the run was far less impressive than subsequent runs when it had no cobalt in its system.
Secondly surely if what authorities say about the toxicity of cobalt and its effect on animal welfare how is this poor horse still one of the best 4 yo mares in Australia especially when she has had one of the highest recorded reading of 2600. Quite simply no real research has been done on either the short or long term effects of cobalt. Infact harness racing authorities sanction the use of cobalt containing substance otherwise they would ban VAM and Hemoplex etc. etc.

[Chariots]

Given your theory Jack, how do you explain that the much lauded Hong Kong Jockey Club has invoked a level of just 100 micrograms a litre.

Is your interest in this issue prompted merely by concern or a closer association with a trainer that has returned a positive swab?

[Messenger]

I think it is relatively simple to work out where I am coming from Kevin but I will elaborate for you.
Firstly, the article suggests that this drugged to the eyeballs horse pulled out an amazing run just because of the substance it was given. When in fact the run was far less impressive than subsequent runs when it had no cobalt in its system.
Secondly surely if what authorities say about the toxicity of cobalt and its effect on animal welfare how is this poor horse still one of the best 4 yo mares in Australia especially when she has had one of the highest recorded reading of 2600. Quite simply no real research has been done on either the short or long term effects of cobalt. Infact harness racing authorities sanction the use of cobalt containing substance otherwise they would ban VAM and Hemoplex etc. etc.

Thanks for the explanation Jack as that is much clearer than this

When I see Luda competing in a Group 1 on Breeders Crown day and starting $3.70 I find it hard to take the myth that cobalt makes horses into these super horses

I do not follow HRNSW so I know little about Luda but I must say you are completely ignoring the horse welfare issue. Just because there would appear to be no short term effects on Luda does not prove much but maybe you are right that more research needs to be done OR is it a waste of money in that it is known that horses need minimal cobalt so stop giving them something they do not need which may or may not be harmful and may or may not be performance enhancing

[Pena]

As usually happens on this forum most people tow the everyone is a cheat and rub them out. No I am not affiliated with one of the stable but actually like to look at the facts and form my own opinion. When I look at the track record of the messiah ruling harness racing in NSW I seriously question the motives of the Cobalt War especially considering what I perceive is a total lack of testing and research. It appears to me the penalty is totally out of proportion with the crime especially as there is such a lack of research. Fill a horse up with pain killer and get 6 months but use the toxic super horse cobalt and get 3 years. Just doesn't make sense to me. Don't get me wrong I do not condone the use of drugs but if you can legally inject a horse with drug 24 hours before the race I do not get how it is any different to bite etc. I seriously question the motives!!!

[Chariots]

You seem transfixed on Reid Sanders on this Jack and are completely ignoring that other jurisdictions around the world have already outlawed Cobalt despite this do called lack of scientific evidence.

[Messenger]

As usually happens on this forum most people tow the everyone is a cheat and rub them out. No I am not affiliated with one of the stable but actually like to look at the facts and form my own opinion. When I look at the track record of the messiah ruling harness racing in NSW I seriously question the motives of the Cobalt War especially considering what I perceive is a total lack of testing and research. It appears to me the penalty is totally out of proportion with the crime especially as there is such a lack of research. Fill a horse up with pain killer and get 6 months but use the toxic super horse cobalt and get 3 years. Just doesn't make sense to me. Don't get me wrong I do not condone the use of drugs but if you can legally inject a horse with drug 24 hours before the race I do not get how it is any different to bite etc. I seriously question the motives!!!

I like to ignore the facts and form someone else's opinion - no seriously, come on Jack it sounds like you are virtually suggesting that if you can inject a horse legally 24hrs before a race then you should be able to put ANYTHING in the syringe?

[Messenger]

How The Age summarized the other day's findings

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...01-gjcpgr.html