Auckland Reactor sets out on Inters mission

[Old Frank]

Harold, re the FFA where he "copped a little heat" from the renowned sit sprinter Awesome Ambro, stablemate of Monkey King who sat quietly one out 2 back appreciating the hot pace up front, do you recall that Awesome Ambros driver underwent a pretty thorough very public drilling by stewards and subsequently got a pretty good holiday for i believe not giving his horse the best opportunity to win???

The race caller on the day during the race actually said "they are setting this up for Monkey King" because it was SO out of character for AA to put pressure on when racing in the death. It was only about a 7 horse field and AA could have been snagged back to 1/3 or about 3 pegs.

Monkey subsequently pinged down the outside and won, AA finished about 60 odd metres or so last after galloping under pressure on the home turn.

Maori's, c'mon mate, your nuthugging for this horse has gone too far and your not even making correct statements.

The FFA I assume your referring was the 2009 edition (I was there)

Awesome Armbro WAS NOT a stablemate of Monkey King, it was in fact a stablemate of Changeover. Both were driven by the brothers, Butcher (David and Phillip) and both were trained by Geoff Small.

The caller did say at the 600mtrs that the race was being set up for Monkey (1 out/2back) however he was stating in the context due to such a hot speed which in turn would suit a horse like Monkey (coming off his NZ Cup win a couple of days prior).

It was quite clearly obvious that Small and the Butchers were working to bring Reactor undone for Changeover (1 out/1 back) however Monkey didn't follow their script and wrote his own and raced pass the lot of them.

If your going to charge in here defending Reactor and trying to bag Monkey, at least have your facts right as you look the right dick making clear accusations yet you can't even quote the right horse or stable!

Final Placings / Driver / Trainer -

Monkey King - R.May / B.Hill
Nearea Franco - C D Thornley / S.M. McRae
Changeover - D Butcher / G C Small
Mr Feelgood - A Butt / Butt & Anderson
Auckland Reactor - M Purdon / M Purdon & G R Payne
Awesome Armbro - P A Butcher / G C Small

[Old Frank]

Lol I know.

I think the horse is definitely top 10 in Australasia.

What got me though back when he was a 3yo and a 4yo wasn't the horses fault, but if you believed everything you read this bloke was 10 lengths better than Courage Under Fire and Christian Cullen - this wasn't long after the Kiwis tried to tell us the 4yo mare Mainland Banner was better than her sire as well!

I was very critical of the Reactor back then, he would run 1.54 going halves in 60 and 54 and beat up on no names. What makes a good horse, imo, is running 1.54 by going 58 and 56 and he couldn't do that back then. What he has done since returning from America I'm a fan (I use that term loosely, I could never cheer for a NZer ) now the relentless media beat up and 'picket fence' bandwagoners have dropped off.

Well some common sense!

Well said.

For all the hyperbole about Reactor since day one, his CV is still inferior to at least 5-6 Kiwi horses of the last 15years. He may well full turn out to be better than the lot and dominate over the next 18months, but up to this point it just doesn't stack.

Reactor's supporters though want us to believe he's the best horse ever to grace a track

[Old Frank]

Nathan, i love the Reactor and think he still is an untapped entity who has shown undoubtedly he can race against and beat the best going around.
Now yes he has beaten Monkey 7 out of 11 but i still dont personally claim he will go down in history YET as a better horse AS FAR AS HIS CV GOES.
His CV is still being added to.

The horses you mention have all retired (maybe not Monkey yet?) and completed their careers, his is an unfinished book at this point, so i dont believe we can say he is a better horse as far as HISTORY will assess him cos he aint finished yet, and therefore unfair to compare CAREERS when he is still adding to his.

Again my point is he has showed more "talent" when racing against the Monkey although i agree Nathan the Monkeys CV is totally better on paper.

And yes mate he has done jack in Australia in the big league so far. However he has racked up an ID heat while not even at his best.

You dont seem to acknowledge apart from saying he is "fine" that he has loads of talent (53.8 last quarter winning, how many horses can do that?)
I dont say he is the best horse in NZ or Aus currently and i dont claim he is better than Monkey, Elsu etc etc etc, YET...

You seem to not be getting my ITMQ example regardless of running well in NZ or bad in Melbourne, point is they are all animals and sometimes run good sometimes run bad, thats all... You seem to excuse ITMQ for his underpar runs here but dont cut Reactor slack on his Qld runs when he went a bit psycho on Gavin kicking his cart, is he not allowed excuses?

Hence just cos Reactor ran "bad" in the ID series doesnt mean he cant run good this time, we had good signs at Ballarat (notice even a track record i still dont say great signs) so hopefully this week being fitter settling in even more he may go to another level up.

Edit - Found the said race Maori's was noting.

53.8 for his half around Ashburton - 24.10.11.

[2minuteman]

This is going to turn into a meeting behind the toilets at little lunch I reckon.

[aussiebreno]

This is going to turn into a meeting behind the toilets at little lunch I reckon.

Are you posting in this thread as part of your love of harness racing or part of your Dr Phil researching

[Maorisidol]

Lol I know.
I think the horse is definitely top 10 in Australasia.

What got me though back when he was a 3yo and a 4yo wasn't the horses fault, but if you believed everything you read this bloke was 10 lengths better than Courage Under Fire and Christian Cullen - this wasn't long after the Kiwis tried to tell us the 4yo mare Mainland Banner was better than her sire as well!
I was very critical of the Reactor back then, he would run 1.54 going halves in 60 and 54 and beat up on no names. What makes a good horse, imo, is running 1.54 by going 58 and 56 and he couldn't do that back then. What he has done since returning from America I'm a fan (I use that term loosely, I could never cheer for a NZer ) now the relentless media beat up and 'picket fence' bandwagoners have dropped off.

Brenno, you don't have to run 58 and 56 when u simply don't have to, or need to...if your opposition are not up to it or their drivers too intimidated, u can get away with it, simple.
So its not necessarily that he couldn't do it back then, against other aged horses he had not so much competition. If u check his 3yo races on hrnz u will see ITMQ placed behind him several times but never beat him, not that I could see anyway.

[Maorisidol]

Maori's, c'mon mate, your nuthugging for this horse has gone too far and your not even making correct statements.

The FFA I assume your referring was the 2009 edition (I was there)

Awesome Armbro WAS NOT a stablemate of Monkey King, it was in fact a stablemate of Changeover. Both were driven by the brothers, Butcher (David and Phillip) and both were trained by Geoff Small.

The caller did say at the 600mtrs that the race was being set up for Monkey (1 out/2back) however he was stating in the context due to such a hot speed which in turn would suit a horse like Monkey (coming off his NZ Cup win a couple of days prior).

It was quite clearly obvious that Small and the Butchers were working to bring Reactor undone for Changeover (1 out/1 back) however Monkey didn't follow their script and wrote his own and raced pass the lot of them.

If your going to charge in here defending Reactor and trying to bag Monkey, at least have your facts right as you look the right dick making clear accusations yet you can't even quote the right horse or stable!

Final Placings / Driver / Trainer -

Monkey King - R.May / B.Hill
Nearea Franco - C D Thornley / S.M. McRae
Changeover - D Butcher / G C Small
Mr Feelgood - A Butt / Butt & Anderson
Auckland Reactor - M Purdon / M Purdon & G R Payne
Awesome Armbro - P A Butcher / G C Small

Yeah I rightly buggered that up don't have a problem with publicly admitting when I make a mistake.
Was somewhat rushing to reply to Harold re that race and when I was writing something seemed not quite right but I knew the essence of my story was correct re team driving trying to bring down the Reactor. No big deal for me Nate.

And by the way I did not "charge in here" defending Reactor, I'm participating in a forum so settle down on the dramatics.

And lastly I haven't attempted to "bag" Monkey in any statement, I have simply pointed out the 7/11 winning stat Reactor has over him. That's a stat Nathan not an opinion. My opinion of the Monkey is that he is a Champ. He's done fantastic things no doubt, u can't deny facts of what he has done.
Shame u can't accept Reactor is better than what u give him credit for. But we are all welcome to our opinions and that's what this forum is all about.
Who cares how much the media pumped him up years ago, personally Nathan I make my own opinion of how good a horse is by what I see them do on the track, I don't make my decision by what I read in the paper, so I don't understand why people get upset with the HORSE, get upset with the over exaggerating over hyping media.

[aussiebreno]

Brenno, you don't have to run 58 and 56 when u simply don't have to, or need to...if your opposition are not up to it or their drivers too intimidated, u can get away with it, simple.
So its not necessarily that he couldn't do it back then, against other aged horses he had not so much competition. If u check his 3yo races on hrnz u will see ITMQ placed behind him several times but never beat him, not that I could see anyway.

Had a bigger post ready to get but submitted it and the internet failed so will summarise what I had written.

I don't have any issues with the horse.
He was clearly NZs best 3yo and arguably their best aged pacer.
I don't have an issue with the mass publicity from Harnesslink etc (Somebeachsomewhere V Reactor poll, own website, arrogance of American campaign) he was given as this was great for the sport in NZ.
I have an issue with those who wanted to say he was better than CUF and CC and also condemned one for thinking otherwisee (when the test of time has proved me right - the expectations placed on this horse just weren't achievable no matter what he did). So really back then I was trying to keep a lid on how over-rated he was. Some may ask wtf am I on about but everywhere I looked it was Auckland Reactor this, Auckland Reactor that etc

I see you have since written "personally Nathan I make my own opinion of how good a horse is by what I see them do on the track, I don't make my decision by what I read in the paper, so I don't understand why people get upset with the HORSE, get upset with the over exaggerating over hyping media."

Although not aimed at me, I think I made it clear in this post my gripes with how over-rated he was.
And on that note I will say I've come into this thread fighting a fight that wasn't there(about his over-ratedness for want of a better word) when the fight was about the horse! So for that I apologise.

[Old Frank]

Yeah I rightly buggered that up don't have a problem with publicly admitting when I make a mistake.

Was somewhat rushing to reply to Harold re that race and when I was writing something seemed not quite right but I knew the essence of my story was correct re team driving trying to bring down the Reactor. No big deal for me Nate.

And by the way I did not "charge in here" defending Reactor, I'm participating in a forum so settle down on the dramatics.

And lastly I haven't attempted to "bag" Monkey in any statement, I have simply pointed out the 7/11 winning stat Reactor has over him. That's a stat Nathan not an opinion. My opinion of the Monkey is that he is a Champ. He's done fantastic things no doubt, u can't deny facts of what he has done.

Shame u can't accept Reactor is better than what u give him credit for. But we are all welcome to our opinions and that's what this forum is all about.

Who cares how much the media pumped him up years ago, personally Nathan I make my own opinion of how good a horse is by what I see them do on the track, I don't make my decision by what I read in the paper, so I don't understand why people get upset with the HORSE, get upset with the over exaggerating over hyping media.

Maori's, I appreciate your opinion about Reactor, I actually stated this in other posts.

Let's be clear once and for all, I have said repeatedly that Reactor is a fine horse, I've further said he's got a great record with his age victories and two (2) GC victories, however what I did clearly state is that for the hype/boom, call it what you will, the horse has yet to deliver in Australia, nor for that matter consistently in his homeland in 'real' races - GC level.

He's always had excuses for not standing, being injured, not quite right, etc, etc and that why I said he's a fine horse, but not one I can say on the way I judge horses is he better than the 5-6 Kiwi horses of the last 15yrs I named who proved themselves on both sides of the ditch. You like to use the word 'fact' Maori's, well that's a fact, the horse hasn't done the business in on the biggest stage compared to his predecessors yet the Kiwi's, and yourself laud over him like he's the greatest horse to ever look through a bridle.

As for your comment about it 'being a shame', well no in actual fact, it's not a shame I don't see the horse the same as you, that's unfortunately called life and we are all different.

I do see the horse in a great light, he's obviously got amazing ability but he's yet to show it again on the big stage.

I will be the first to clap my hands should he win Hunter Cups, ID's, Miracle Mile's, NZ Cups etc, etc as they are the crown jewels of Harness Racing and one could say his potential and ability warrant one, but warranting one and winning one are two entirely different things and he has to go out and do the business.

Amazing halves of 53.8, yep on one hand fantastic. Fortunately (I've been very lucky) Maori's I've been to the Meadowlands and seen some of the best in North America do 53.8, mind you it was in front of another 53.8 so I suppose I don't get as emotional over it so times don't get to me as much on judging horses.

As I said to Viv Strangman in another post, each race constitutes a different set of circumstances so times can sometimes become misleading.

53.8 is no better in context than a horse having to go three-wide from say the 1,000m in a race when they go 56 home as him/her being out three-wide is chugging along a lot harder and quicker than 56 in order to win. That's toughness, willingness, etc, etc that I suppose I admire as having been involved in training horses, I love to seem them give you everything to win. It doesn't mean it's better than the 53.8, just different circumstances.

All the Kiwi horses I named earlier who have consistently done the business have all had to climb off the canvas at one point or another in a race, or do some amazing feat/sectional to win, and they have done it multiple times. Sometimes they've done the unimaginable in defeat so it can be both ways. Reactor has really yet to do any of that at the GC level, hence I don't get awash with emotion until he proves it.

We can go back and forth all day - please be clear with what I said earlier, we are different, we judge horses differently, yet that doesn't mean I don't admire the horse, I'm just luke warm unlike others to his achievements vs. reputation.

[Viv Strangman]

Nathan, you must have a twin brother or someone else has been writing your posts for you. In the not to distant past you stated that if Auckland Reactor was to race in FFAs in Victoria on a consistent basis he would only win once in every 3 or 4 starts. If your judgement is right he has no show at GC level this weekend. However in your last few posts you are suggesting he may win on the GC this season. Something not right here. And dont get so wound up about that 53:8 half. Everyone knows Auckland Reactor missed away, looped the field, sat parked the last lap and ran home in 53:8 with Mark Purdon sitting quietly in the cart. Highview Tommy and Terror To Love among the beaten horses. It is the fastest half ever run in a race in NZ and time is and always will be important in this breed. It has always been that way since the 1850s and still is today. It has always been the method used to assess the merits of a horse since the beginning of this breed.Hence the name of the breed. So I place a much bigger premium on time than you do going by your comments. One thing is certain. You and I will never agree on this issue but I would hope the next time Im in Australia we could have a beer and chew the fat on an industry that we both obviously have a great passion for