Suss race

[Thevoiceofreason]

I feel that there would have been an inquiry into the Bathurst race but I may be wrong.

To be honest we will never know because they are not the circumstances that eventuated. A good rule of thumb in these circumstances is if an impartial observer might think "whats going on here" that is when stewards should investigate, so what went on can be explained.

I think watching Bathurst it was easy to have that thought especially when the horses recent tactics are considered.

It will surprise many but personally I am not a fan of the COT rules all I have done in the past is say it should be applied consistently and I have any many debates on here with VVV as to that, so be clear I do not like the concept, having said that, I do think it is applied consistently.

I would be happy to offer an opinion on the two examples you have mentioned just list the races and I will have a look and give a view, in general terms though the COT rule and announcement is always accompanied by "if circumstances permit", for example if you are a leader going to take cover but still go forward you are not expected to run a 36 quarter if nothing challenges you for the lead just to get cover, likewise if you are going back and there is just no speed and you are caught 3 deep without cover and puling you would not be found in breach if you then went forward, as these are circumstances of the race and therefore it would be found circumstances did not permit the intended change.

There will be no need for VVV to remind me he found one or two examples where the stewards in NSW got the COT's wrong in July or August last year and as I said then from time to time they will make a blue or miss something but as punters we should be aware that can happen, we miss most winners most weeks,

[Triple V]

The only point I can make is that Well Caught Marsh is a very fast beginner from the mobile, and holds the lead when it can in QLD, it was drawn inside Deadsetlucky and was able to hold it out for the lead, 25.3 the first quarter (Fred said.."fastest ever at Menangle") Deadsetlucky also a super fast beginner and usually can cross and lead at Menangle from any gate!........A match race for the fast beginners to the first turn........and that's what we got! Being drawn outside of the other horse Deadsetlucky, needed an extra length to cross, and at 25.3, I don't know where that was going to come from? I thought what a great speed duel between the pair, there was no room either for Deadsetlucky to pull in behind after the first turn..........So we ended up with an exciting race, and the "swoopers" appeared on the scene and won the race! I have no problems at all with how things panned out! Perhaps J Alchin should have looked up the form of the interstate guest!

[VVV] For mine there's a HUGE time & a fair class difference though don't you think?
1:53.8 under no pressure and just dictating terms off the front up at Albion Park to me is a whole world away from a leaving the gate stamped urgent 25.3 opener through to a 54 & a piece half and ultimately a 1:51 & a piece mile at Menangle. Viewed in that light, the apparent instructions to Mick Formosa to hold were a bit presumptuous to say the least. Deadsetlucky was always going to leave for the front or if it wasn't there straight away he was coming knocking early & forcefully. For the trainer of Well Caught Marsh to expect the horse be able to park out Deadsetlucky to the half and live to tell the tale was well wide of the mark, IMO. The instructions to hold with Well Caught Marsh gave the horse no chance at all...as I see it anyway.

[Triple V]

There will be no need for VVV to remind me he found one or two examples where the stewards in NSW got the COT's wrong in July or August last year and as I said then from time to time they will make a blue or miss something but as punters we should be aware that can happen, we miss most winners most weeks,

[VVV] Hey, don't go roping me into this. I've been sitting quietly on the sidelines.

[The Form Student]

[VVV] For mine there's a HUGE time & a fair class difference though don't you think?
1:53.8 under no pressure and just dictating terms off the front up at Albion Park to me is a whole world away from a leaving the gate stamped urgent 25.3 opener through to a 54 & a piece half and ultimately a 1:51 & a piece mile at Menangle. Viewed in that light, the apparent instructions to Mick Formosa to hold were a bit presumptuous to say the least. Deadsetlucky was always going to leave for the front or if it wasn't there straight away he was coming knocking early & forcefully. For the trainer of Well Caught Marsh to expect the horse be able to park out Deadsetlucky to the half and live to tell the tale was well wide of the mark, IMO. The instructions to hold with Well Caught Marsh gave the horse no chance at all...as I see it anyway.

Once again reputation doesn't always prevail! Deadset had no rights to the lead and got beaten to the lead on his merit in "track record " time for the 1st 400 metres - 25.3 secs. I don't understand why you say that expect to live and tell the tale by holding out Deadset is not true......obviously J Alchin had only one thing in his repertoire for Deadset, to lead at all cost, once that didn't happen he didn't think it was time to grab hold and drive like a "church mouse" from there on, and give himself to try again in the straight! There are a lot of drivers that think the winning post is in the "back straight", it is not and they need to consider their tactics.........2 of the most prolific winning drivers at Menangle are L McCarthy & D Thorn, they are usually not aiming up beyond reasonableness, but keeping something back for the home straight! At the end of the day in the race in question, there was only 5 metres separating both horses! Let's call it a draw?

[Thevoiceofreason]

[VVV] Hey, don't go roping me into this. I've been sitting quietly on the sidelines.

Just wanted to be on the front foot I did not like the ease of you last wins over me.

[The Form Student]

I feel that there would have been an inquiry into the Bathurst race but I may be wrong.

To be honest we will never know because they are not the circumstances that eventuated. A good rule of thumb in these circumstances is if an impartial observer might think "whats going on here" that is when stewards should investigate, so what went on can be explained.

I think watching Bathurst it was easy to have that thought especially when the horses recent tactics are considered.

It will surprise many but personally I am not a fan of the COT rules all I have done in the past is say it should be applied consistently and I have any many debates on here with VVV as to that, so be clear I do not like the concept, having said that, I do think it is applied consistently.

I would be happy to offer an opinion on the two examples you have mentioned just list the races and I will have a look and give a view, in general terms though the COT rule and announcement is always accompanied by "if circumstances permit", for example if you are a leader going to take cover but still go forward you are not expected to run a 36 quarter if nothing challenges you for the lead just to get cover, likewise if you are going back and there is just no speed and you are caught 3 deep without cover and puling you would not be found in breach if you then went forward, as these are circumstances of the race and therefore it would be found circumstances did not permit the intended change.

There will be no need for VVV to remind me he found one or two examples where the stewards in NSW got the COT's wrong in July or August last year and as I said then from time to time they will make a blue or miss something but as punters we should be aware that can happen, we miss most winners most weeks,

I have now viewed the original race replay again several times, and wish to rescind my original decision!..........I now believe Mr T Rue should be exonerated completely and immediately, with an apology from the stewards that presided over the enquiry, and the decision to suspend him for 6 weeks!.........in the relevant race Happy Camper began brillliantly form barrier 7, and crossed the field easily, and was a "bit fired up" in the lead! I believe Kenmore Star did not show enough speed to take the lead off Happy Camper, ........ unless T Rue restained his horse very abruptly, which I suggest he really should not be doing, otherwise we may have had 2 horse breaking and then a "Royal Commission" into the incident would have been ordered!.......In it's 2 subsequent runs Happy Camper has started off the 2nd line once, and ran on strongly from a deep rails position, and today at Dubbo where it was drawn gate 1 it was aimed up for the lead very vigourously by Blake Jones, but was crossed for the lead, HC then sat behind the leader and came out in the straight and fought on very well for 2nd place! Perhaps the stewards and punters whom believed it should always take a sit are mistaken........as I said previously in comments, the horses form has been on the improve in recent runs, perhaps the horse has "seasoned" up this time in!

[Danno]

I think it might be time for this............

The Riders in the Stand

There's some that ride the Robbo style, and bump at every stride;
While others sit a long way back, to get a longer ride.
There's some that ride like sailors do, with legs and arms, and teeth;
And some ride on the horse's neck, and some ride underneath.
But all the finest horsemen out -- the men to Beat the Band --
You'll find amongst the crowd that ride their races in the Stand.
They'll say "He had the race in hand, and lost it in the straight."
They'll show how Godby came too soon, and Barden came too late.
They'll say Chevalley lost his nerve, and Regan lost his head;
They'll tell how one was "livened up" and something else was "dead" --
In fact, the race was never run on sea, or sky, or land,
But what you'd get it better done by riders in the Stand.
The rule holds good in everything in life's uncertain fight;
You'll find the winner can't go wrong, the loser can't go right.
You ride a slashing race, and lose -- by one and all you're banned!
Ride like a bag of flour, and win -- they'll cheer you in the Stand.
Banjo Patterson.

[Triple V]

Beautiful stuff Danno. Many thanks. Ride like a bag of flour, and win...a magic visual that.

[barney]

I see where one of the drivers involved in the 1st post on this thread Nathan Jack has just got 6 weeks for not giving his horse every chance at a Mildura meeting.

Source stewards wrap on harness .org.

Is it just me but he seems to be always involved in controversy
Glen Douglas got 4 for same reason

[aussiebreno]

Neither...just common sense both issues got dealt with round the same time.