I'm not missing the point at all Jamie, connections obviously don't view the Menangle race as suitable for either their fillies or personal circumstances so they haven't nominated. I have indicated that amongst other reasons some owners may have avoided Menangle as they may consider the track unsuitable for their young fillies at this stage of their career. Where is the 2yo filly your paying for Jamie if you are so desperate to support these races?
I agree if they aren't supported then it is hard to justify programming them. If the message from connections is "not at menangle" then try programming elsewhere. Owners also need to be confident that there will be programming to suit these fillies beyond the 2CO stage, one win in a career doesn't go close to covering the costs of achieving it
As for Tamworth 15k is good prizemoney but only one horse wins the lions share. You are talking about a venue located on the edge of the harness racing envelope in this state which involves considerable travelling for many connections and they have excercised their right not to nominate. Obviously 4 saw it as a good deal for them.
It is there, right in front of you TAMWORTH 2yo. This is more a benefit for one trainer rather than a race.
Why on earth would a passionate owner agree with his trainer to load up his only 2yo to participate in this race, only to incur a large floating cost plus other exe's all while he/she/them are at work.
WHAT FUN!
Geez Jamie,Originally Posted by Triple V
you've backed the rest of us into a corner! The only solution I think, is for you to get that trainer's licence you've been thinking about for the last twenty or so years, keep a couple that you bred rather than accepting the paltry offerings at the yearling sales and show all us idiots how it's done!!!
once again Jamie you win by the fact you don't accept anything anyone else has to say unless they agree with you!
Congratulations!!!
[VVV] What really bugs me with the way things are programming wise at present Dot is that essentially the very worst thing a moderate 2yo filly can do for her Owner/s is win a race early in the season. From that point onward, because so many of these races are open to both sexes and not PDS, she'll give the front to the non-winning colts & geldings. Win one & for the season she's pretty much done. You may as well turn them out. There has to be a better way.
[VVV] Zooming right past the initial point there Dan. Can you guys not see that if these races are not supported then they will continue not to be carded? That is in fact where we are at right now, as I've highlight there's a high 70's early 20's split against Fillies Only races in NSW and unless this is highlighted and moves are made from both sides to get it fixed then nothing changes and the same old bullshit routine continues unabated.
It's a two way street...Clubs & HRNSW should be ashamed of the number of Fillies Only races that they card and the Trainers & Owners should be ashamed for not supporting the ones that are carded. I've had a serious crack at a number of Clubs and at HRNSW to take a look at ways to rectify this...there's a level of lip service given to it which I expected but from some quarters there is also a genuine attempt to listen and at least try to resolve the disparity that exists and to be frank has existed to varying degrees since as far back as I can rememeber.
It does no good for Clubs, HRNSW and Trainers/Owners to keep coming up with the same old Chestnuts by way of excuses. There has to be a better way.
In the end, all this stuff does is add weight to the argument for Centralised Programming...for taking that role out of the hands of the Clubs and into the hands of HRNSW lock, stock and barrel and that resulting in races being carded in such a way that with certain ages/grades of horse you either travel to where it is being held, or you don't race. It will end up as simple as that.
Again, before you launch into another shoot the messenger rant, ideally that's not what I want to see either...but where's the alternative? For mine, right now, it seems to be by far the lesser of two evils.
Last edited by Triple V; 05-06-2012 at 05:59 PM. Reason: spelling, a shocker
Jamie, I don't think you can expect people to take their 2YO fillies or colts to the races if they aren't ready, don't need another run this week, have had enough this prep or any other of a multitude of reasons. Training horses and 2yo's in particular is a balancing act if you want to be a responsible trainer and allow the horse to reach it's full potential, most fair dinkum trainers prefer to err on the side of caution... these are not excuses Jamie but valid reasons for why there may have been 17 horses one week and only 4 the next.
There is never a guarantee that when a club programmes any class of race it will garner sufficient nominations. In particular programming 2yo's let alone 2yo fillies races have always struggled to "stand up".
The problem is the size of the pool of available horses, not that silly connections don't nominate their horses when they are ready!
Others on this thread have been trying to show why these races have'nt stood up from an owner/trainers persective but you seem to choose to call all of this "excuses", that's why the challenge about actually training one or two...then you might see it's not just excuses.
Jamie I don't know what the answer is, maybe programming penalty heats into final series around Bathurst, Young and Wagga. These tracks coincide with the areas that most of the foal crop is born and raised and I would assume the costs of horse keeping/training are less then in the metro area. Yes these would largely be low stakes races but there should be more opportunites to earn something. Fortunately peoples interest in racing isn't solely for profitability on earnings, if it were then 99% of us wouldn't be in it. Low stakes at least return something while we all wait for the "good one"
Is PDS the answer? Maybe but then Menangle claim that their most successful barriers are 4-6 , though I think their data is flawed.
[VVV] G'day Dot,
Along those Heats & Finals lines, maybe a 2yo Fillies extension of the existing program/s already in place for the Country tracks Heats & Menangle Finals for C0's, C1's, C2's etc ? ...and further still, perhaps putting a Post Code condition on them too, as in 2yo Fillies Only...trained outside of the Sydney Metro area/200km from Menangle... or whatever?
Obviously, for whatever reason/s, most of them I still suspect not particularly good ones in the overall scheme of things but nonetheless, there are various reasons that are stopping these Fillies from being nominated to even a bread and butter 2C0-2C1 Fillies Only at Menangle like the one that received a paltry 2 noms last week. Surely something along those lines would be more attractive?
I got along to talk to the fellas at Menangle a month or so back and they were quite happy to back 2yo fillies races there in the same way that they originally backed the Trotters out there in so far as going forward with less than full fields (in this case, a proposed 6 noms)...in order to foster the division for the longer term. Paul Fitzpatrick was also there and he was speaking to another matter of concern to him, the problems of getting older horses through their M0's & how that was being exacerbated by some M0 race being written with AE Claimers to $X conditions added. When he saw the 2yo fillies only racing opportunity stats he was also surprised, said he knew that it wasn't good but didn't think it was as bad as that. He has been around a long while and trained a lot of horses in a whole host of different age & sex divisons and that was his off the cuff reaction. That just served to re-affirm to me that there has to be a better way than the present approach.
It seems like another lifetime ago that Garry Reid and myself were on the Committee of the NSWSBA & the bozos lined up in droves, including quite inexplicably some of the Members and would you believe some of the Committee, to appose our motion for the equalisation of the Finals Prizemoney for the then NSWSS. At the time, the 2yo & 3yo colts & geldings raced for twice the $$$ on offer for the respective fillies divisions. The fillies and for that matter mares discrimination here in NSW dates at least as far back as that & more & although the $ was levelled up as it should always have been (the neysayers didn't have a leg to stand on), reasonable racing opportunities against their own sex still remains the family shame, NSW Harness Racing's answer to a demented one eyed cousin kept locked up in the attic & fed on fish heads & dog kibble...the one that everyone's well aware of but nobody ever talks about.
vvv
Jamie,
there's a thing called EMPATHY,if there was a book on it that i could refer you to I'd be very pleased to do that but I learnt empathy from my parents and as such, being a "baby boomer" trusted what I was taught by my elders rather than challenging the same and then expecting to see a nationally funded multi faceted research programme designed primarily to default said information on empathy so as to further challenge anything my parents or any other moronic person may have uttered so I could "make up my own mind".
I'm certain you can find some information on the internet about empathy, but I'm uncertain if the translation on the net will actually mean anything to you.
Cheers,
Dan
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