2yo Fillies in NSW. The saga continues.

[Triple V]

[QUOTE=dizzy;20564]Jamie regardless of what you call excuses it will always ultimately be the choice of connections as to where they nominate.
[VVV] G'day Dot,
As far as I'm aware that aspect has never been in question. What I was trying to get across is that Centralised Programming will fix this but at the same time it will see some amongst us with a choice not to have a choice...as in it will basically be an either 'race at X with your 2yo filly (or whatever) or stay at home in the barn' scenario. That being said, it will still prove to be in the best interests of the majority because it will produce more consistent/regular/predictable programs that I believe will see far, far fewer races falling over due to insufficient noms. Net result is some progress and for the better.

As to training centres do you believe it is in trainers and clubs best interests that these be co located?
[VVV] Yes I think all up it is in their respective best interests, perhaps a little moreso in the direction of the Clubs, because the on-course stabling/training will hopefully ensure each them a basic pool of horses to work with, a pool that is located right on their doorstep and from which you'd expect they'll ultimately draw a large % of their noms/race fields.

From my experience training in at a venue that is practically co located the advantages are;
Reduced costs if you are racing at the same location.
[VVV] Certainly, reduced costs to the Industy as a whole and also as I mentioned above, pools of horses located on the doorstep. Both highly desirable you'd have to think.

The disadvantage is unless the racetrack and training facilities can operate autonomously the requirements of each impact negatively on each other. The need of trainers to utilise the track daily impacts on the clubs ability to use their facility to generate other income and the clubs need to generate income results in the track being closed inconvienicing trainers.
[VVV]That might take some sorting out to begin with. I'm guessing the obvious is Race Day training activities that would have to be done & dusted early but for the most part most of them are anyway, at least from what I've seen. Other than that...dunno? It's certainly not a deal breaker. I'm sure the on-course stables and the various tracks would come to a mutally beneficial arrangement...after all, that is exactly what on-course stabling/training is meant to produce. I guess it would be along the lines of our local public pool. There'd be this or that on certain days and for others there'd be no doing whatever before or after this time or that in the morning or in the arvo on certain days or whatever. The only problem that I can see....if there were enough horses stabled on-course or training from barns close by....and they all wanted to work, you'd have to think at certain times of the day/year during peak times it would look like Pitt St at lunchtime. All up though, geeze...what a great problem to have...as in so many horses there on site and doing their thing....maybe stables getting rostered to have the track to themselves between certain times or whatever...buggered if I know. If that's the biggest hassle they have then I reckon they'll be doing alright. I'm sure John D & Wanno & Co. at Menangle would be only to pleased to have such hassles.
/QUOTE]

VVV

[Danno]

Fair dinkum Jamie you are like a dog with a bone mate, I have been away in the dusty areas of western Qld for 3 days and you still refer to a lack of nominations for these 2yo fillies races as "excuses".
There is a whole world of people out there Jamie that don't quite agree with you sometimes, but of course what they put forward is just excuses.

Geez I'd like to have horse in my yard with same never give an inch no matter what attitude! I think you might be related to Hondo Grattan Jamie!
Cheers,
Dan

[eliteblood]

I agree very much with Jaimie on this issue. It is so important that we develop a situation whereby fillies and mares are able to race almost exclusively in same sex races.
It doesn't make sense to me either that trainers of Sydney based 2YO fillies would choose to race elsewhere against the boys in preference to a fillies only race at Menangle, as appeared to be the case last week.
Lee, I don't think Jaimie is suggesting that you or anyone else in the country should be travelling to Menangle to race in fillies only races. The goal is that, no matter where you are based, there are mares and fillies only racing opportunities held in each region on a regular and reliable basis so that owners and trainers have the option of bypassing the boys.
Centralised programming would make it easier to coordinate the programming of these races. If that is what it takes to achieve the goal then bring it on.

[Lethal]

Hello Trevor,
You have the spot, that races should be programmed on a regular basis in the respective regions, for all the reasons that have been identified in earlier posts. So might the problem lie with uncoordinated programming rather than with owners/trainers who some see as the culprits for 2yo races not standing up.
Trainers generally are reluctant to travel long distances with young ones and owners want to see them race near their home/work.

[Tangles]

Hello Trevor,
You have the spot, that races should be programmed on a regular basis in the respective regions, for all the reasons that have been identified in earlier posts. So might the problem lie with uncoordinated programming rather than with owners/trainers who some see as the culprits for 2yo races not standing up.
Trainers generally are reluctant to travel long distances with young ones and owners want to see them race near their home/work.

Every meeting should be programmed with at least 2 fillies/ or mare races only and if they do not stand up PBD based on sex. If mares races are not programmed we will continue to see the demise of the Australian breeding industry.

But maybe this is what the administrators are fostering anyway. This would sound ludicous if it was not already happening. For each imported NZ horses money flows out, of the system into the NZ system and so our industry dies.

We have become the carrion of the NZ breding industry. South Aus. has become such a basket case it cannot even conduct a sale. For those that can remember it was once the engine room for breeding in the 60's to late 70's. 2000 plus mares bred now only 33.

Breeding bonus's help but more encouragement for ownership of mares and fillies is needed.

[aussiebreno]

Every meeting should be programmed with at least 2 fillies/ or mare races only and if they do not stand up PBD based on sex. If mares races are not programmed we will continue to see the demise of the Australian breeding industry.

But maybe this is what the administrators are fostering anyway. This would sound ludicous if it was not already happening. For each imported NZ horses money flows out, of the system into the NZ system and so our industry dies.

We have become the carrion of the NZ breding industry. South Aus. has become such a basket case it cannot even conduct a sale. For those that can remember it was once the engine room for breeding in the 60's to late 70's. 2000 plus mares bred now only 33.

Breeding bonus's help but more encouragement for ownership of mares and fillies is needed.

I don't think the demise of the SA industry should be in any way linked to race programming.

[dizzy]

[QUOTE=Triple V;20573]

Jamie regardless of what you call excuses it will always ultimately be the choice of connections as to where they nominate.
[VVV] G'day Dot,
As far as I'm aware that aspect has never been in question. What I was trying to get across is that Centralised Programming will fix this but at the same time it will see some amongst us with a choice not to have a choice...as in it will basically be an either 'race at X with your 2yo filly (or whatever) or stay at home in the barn' scenario. That being said, it will still prove to be in the best interests of the majority because it will produce more consistent/regular/predictable programs that I believe will see far, far fewer races falling over due to insufficient noms. Net result is some progress and for the better.

As to training centres do you believe it is in trainers and clubs best interests that these be co located?
[VVV] Yes I think all up it is in their respective best interests, perhaps a little moreso in the direction of the Clubs, because the on-course stabling/training will hopefully ensure each them a basic pool of horses to work with, a pool that is located right on their doorstep and from which you'd expect they'll ultimately draw a large % of their noms/race fields.

From my experience training in at a venue that is practically co located the advantages are;
Reduced costs if you are racing at the same location.
[VVV] Certainly, reduced costs to the Industy as a whole and also as I mentioned above, pools of horses located on the doorstep. Both highly desirable you'd have to think.

The disadvantage is unless the racetrack and training facilities can operate autonomously the requirements of each impact negatively on each other. The need of trainers to utilise the track daily impacts on the clubs ability to use their facility to generate other income and the clubs need to generate income results in the track being closed inconvienicing trainers.
[VVV]That might take some sorting out to begin with. I'm guessing the obvious is Race Day training activities that would have to be done & dusted early but for the most part most of them are anyway, at least from what I've seen. Other than that...dunno? It's certainly not a deal breaker. I'm sure the on-course stables and the various tracks would come to a mutally beneficial arrangement...after all, that is exactly what on-course stabling/training is meant to produce. I guess it would be along the lines of our local public pool. There'd be this or that on certain days and for others there'd be no doing whatever before or after this time or that in the morning or in the arvo on certain days or whatever. The only problem that I can see....if there were enough horses stabled on-course or training from barns close by....and they all wanted to work, you'd have to think at certain times of the day/year during peak times it would look like Pitt St at lunchtime. All up though, geeze...what a great problem to have...as in so many horses there on site and doing their thing....maybe stables getting rostered to have the track to themselves between certain times or whatever...buggered if I know. If that's the biggest hassle they have then I reckon they'll be doing alright. I'm sure John D & Wanno & Co. at Menangle would be only to pleased to have such hassles.
/QUOTE]

VVV

Yes Jamie it does happen pretty much as you suggest .

But Jamie would you be happy with a model whereby your little trainers been squeezed out? Or assuming that their still there they cant train their horse some days because they didn't finish work in time, or they had to take the kids to school or the missus to the doctor?

And the trainer at a regional centre finally decides to take his 2yo filly to menangle only to find that the tracks closing at 10 and that when he gets home at 3 am he can only go to bed for an hour before he has to get up to train the rest of the team?

Not to mention the club CEO who when the music promotor or religious group ponies up at the door with tens of thousands of dollars in his pocket to rent his venue for a few days says "sorry mate" can't do it?

And of course what about the horses? Sure horses can be stabled and trained on track and succeed, the odd one might even thrive, but for the most part they are likely to be suffering from increased stress and gastric ulcers. You like the quotes Jamie so I have one for you

"Training off a farm is a much better environment, and I believe anyone can be a more successful as a horse trainer if you get away from the racetrack and have paddocks where you can get your horses out every day. This is a critical part of my program, and I believe that I could not be as effective a horse trainer if I had to stay at the raceway with my stable" Bob McIntosh (Canadian Hall of Fame Trainer) from The New Care and Training of the Trotter and Pacer.


Food for thought Jamie

[Triple V]

[QUOTE=dizzy;20606]

Yes Jamie it does happen pretty much as you suggest.

But Jamie would you be happy with a model whereby your little trainers been squeezed out?
[VVV] Obviously not. Far from it. That's exactly Iwhat 've been banging on about for the last week or more. I am deeply concerned that the smaller stables and 1-2 horse trainers will not get a look in as far as on-course stabling is concerned. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll stick with the spirit of the venture & all interested parties will be catered for on a first come first served basis...let's hope so, although I'll not hold my breath.

Or assuming that their still there they cant train their horse some days because they didn't finish work in time, or they had to take the kids to school or the missus to the doctor?
[VVV] Not good examples to pick at this point in time Dot. My wife is in Spain on business, our girls are home here with me and they still have to go to school and I still have to go to work. So, like every other working person/family on the face of the planet, accomodations will have to be made and they'll just have to work around it I guess. Besides, I very much doubt we'll ever get HRNSW to spring for a series of on-course school buses, creches and a 24/7 Medical Centres.

And the trainer at a regional centre finally decides to take his 2yo filly to menangle only to find that the tracks closing at 10 and that when he gets home at 3 am he can only go to bed for an hour before he has to get up to train the rest of the team?
[VVV] Do what all the rest of us do...develop a taste for Red Bull and maintain a close relationship with your Coffee machine.

Not to mention the club CEO who when the music promotor or religious group ponies up at the door with tens of thousands of dollars in his pocket to rent his venue for a few days says "sorry mate" can't do it?
[VVV] The day that John D inconveniences a bunch of on course stabled trainers by way of renting premises to Dylan Liddy so The Hilltop Hoods can showcase their latest album...or gets on the phone to Cardinal George Pell and gives him the nod to hold the next Catholic Youth Rally at Menangle...is the day that I'll stand in the middle of the Pitt Street Mall at lunchtime, drop my pants and sing 'Hey Big Spender' by Shirley Bassey. You can hold me to that.


And of course what about the horses? Sure horses can be stabled and trained on track and succeed, the odd one might even thrive, but for the most part they are likely to be suffering from increased stress and gastric ulcers.
[VVV] I'll have to take your word for that Dot as I simply do not possess that level of forethought nor for that matter, insight.

You like the quotes Jamie so I have one for you

"Training off a farm is a much better environment, and I believe anyone can be a more successful as a horse trainer if you get away from the racetrack and have paddocks where you can get your horses out every day. This is a critical part of my program, and I believe that I could not be as effective a horse trainer if I had to stay at the raceway with my stable" Bob McIntosh (Canadian Hall of Fame Trainer) from The New Care and Training of the Trotter and Pacer.
[VVV] An all-time great Trainer but maybe he's doing a bit of a Tesio there.
What he's saying is less critical than what he's not saying. Dot, if you were sent racehorses of a calibre of Artsplace, Camluck, Odds Against, Artiscape & so on to train, do you honestly think that training/racing out of a box would have stopped them? Vern Norrgard could have trained them and they still would have won.


Food for thought Jamie
[VVV] More like mental chewing gum.

VVV

[dizzy]

Jamie, Block eyes on and large bone between teeth as usual.

[Triple V]

Jamie, Block eyes on and large bone between teeth as usual.

[VVV]...said the Pot, calling the Kettle black.