Shepparton Gold Cup

[Toohard]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=6610

Have HRV applied the rules as they were intended, to limit the the potential for interference at the start?

The way the Gold Ace started at Shep the potential for interference was definitely there imho.

Which intention brenno? The original intention, last years intention or this years?

Am told Gold Ace not in 2013 NZ Cup coz trainer said horse won't go away.

What about person(s) who misses out on start coz CODS horse allowed to run?

[aussiebreno]

Why oh why am I continuing to be part of this debate is beyond me...however, if an animal has fulfilled the conditions as required to, what more does the horse have to do? Solemnly swear with hoof on bible that "I will do everything within my power to make sure I do not skip, jump, fart or gallop when the tapes release. If I do step away as required then I will, to avoid any embarrassment to my driver, ensure I drive straight up the back of the horse in front of me, even when it is taking my rightful running. I will do my damnedness not to break into a full stretched gallop if my driver takes the common sense approach of avoiding aforementioned horse"


The horse has got a list of convictions a mile long. The horse didn't write the conditions that had to be fulfilled, HRV did. Take it up with them. THEIR STEWARDS DEEMED THE HORSE GALLOPED AFTER THE START, NOT AT THE START. This isn't a court of inquiry here, its a bunch of opinions being expressed earnestly by forum contributors, nothing more. Going over the same territory doesn't change what has occurred. Anyone here seen the camera angle down the back at the start of the Shep Cup? Doubt it, nor have I? I will take the word of the Chief Steward.


Now when the conditions of the Cup were drawn up back in 2007, the committee was doing the right thing in protecting the interests of other starters...they put the Clauses in it that still apply today. Let them review the conditions AFTER this cup if they deem it needs to be changed, because obviously there are a shitload of people who think it should be.


Smoken, if that is what Lance said so be it, but it wasn't HRVs fault his champ wasn't left out of the cup last year...and I was one that thought he should have been there, but his horse had not met the criteria. Tough potatoes!


Finally horses are not machines, they are not foolproof or bombproof or can offer no guarantees. They surely cannot be penalised for doing something they may or may not do in the future. There is an existing system in place that deals with actualities. Its called "back to the trials" And BTW, can anyone tell me the last time they saw SmokenUp break into a full gallop?

Gold Ace CODS. Why? If he started safely no need. If he begun the race properly, then no need for ODS. Luke McCarthy should be questioning this why he is still ODS if he begun properly. I've never ever seen any other horse put out of draw because it got inconvenienced by another. Which one is it????

[Smoken]

It seems that nobody can answer such a simple question Brendan..
Maybe HRV will change the CODS regarding TGA, because they have no other choice without making them look absolutely STUPID & BIASED!!

[broncobrad]

Gold Ace CODS. Why? If he started safely no need. If he begun the race properly, then no need for ODS. Luke McCarthy should be questioning this why he is still ODS if he begun properly. I've never ever seen any other horse put out of draw because it got inconvenienced by another. Which one is it????

I am sorry Brendan, if you are asking me for the answer, I cannot help you. On this score I can offer you no reasonable explanation.

[The Escape Club]

I was unaware that HRV had said yesterday he is a non runner yesterday, but clearly have reviewed that decision (correctly), he only galloped when the horse in front of him inconvenienced him. Correct call...don't often see justice, just stupid by the book rulings!


And have only just read this now Smoken which puts the whole matter to bed.




http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=22518


That drive by McCarthy would have to be one of the best I have ever seen getting TGA home the other night...the only difference between the two horses.

As a follow up to the above, here's the steward's report that is essentially what was in the article.


Im Corzin Terror NZ began badly and shifted outwards soon after the start and as a consequence The Gold Ace NZ was briefly inconvenienced and after originally placing this horse outside the standing start draw stewards were satisfied that due to the inconvenience caused the horse did not gallop of its own accord however will remain outside the standing start draw. Im Corzin Terror NZ was subsequently placed outside the draw.

[Smoken]

Why should TGA remain ods if it has done nothing wrong?????? That is just insane!!! Ohh, they truly know that it did gallop due to its own accord, otherwise it will be not ods! Unbelievable! It picked up speed to quickly for his own good, hence breaking, not ICT fault. This just proves that HRV do as they please, when they please. Shonky *****

Nothing else to say really. I will stop here

[p plater]

Heard this happened tonight at the trials...it appears Im Corzin Terror was in the 3rd trial a stand. Stepped away, went half a lap and pulled up.
Now are the stewards going to allow this as a genuine trial as the Vic rules clearly state a horse must finish the trial without breaking gait.
Are they trying to get the ODS removed

[Toohard]

I'll stop here too Smoken!

Watched replay son recorded on TV. Watched few times. Slow mo even.

No head on shot but if that horse galloped because of I'm Corzin Terror I'll eat me hat.

I'm Corzin Terror moves up the track before Gold Ace gets near him but is straightened by time Gold Ace gets there. Gold Ace is positioned up the track at start. There's heaps of room for Gold Ace to get through. Gold Ace does not slow up when reaches I'm Corzin Terror. Not like had to grab hold and go sideways to avoid I'm Corzin Terror.

Gallops as passes I'm Corzin Terror and continues to make ground galloping whilst the other ones galloping are restrained to get back into a pace. Then starts pacing.


Gold Ace. Galloped at last 3 stands. Once knocking another horse out of the race and being subsequently relegated to last. Passes conditions of rule.

Smoken Up hadn't had stand for 14 months last year. So hadn't had stand for 26 months before Shepparton Cup. Began perfectly. Last year doesn't pass conditions of rule.

As people said last year... "The point of the rule is ?????"

[Njcstables]

First of all, after watching replay at sheparton, tga appears to step well and pace cleanly for about 50m before galloping trying to avoid ict. He does appear to gallop for a long way however before getting back on gait. Personally I'm satisfied with the process of the review, the rules state that a trainer can ask for a review if a horse is put ods or cods. if the stewards actually spoke to the trainers/drivers after the race, before making their ruling, then this would never have been an issue.

On the issue of whether or not tga should still be cods, there are a number of reasons this can still be the case. Firstly to get back in the draw you need to have satisfactorily began clean at two consecutive trials/races. Secondly the trainer needs to sign a form prior to the start of the race indicating that he wishes to have his/her horse put back in the draw should it begin safely. Perhaps Luke is happy for the horse to be ods because he can stand up the track out of harms way and that gives tga his best chance to begin safely. None of us know what the actual circumstances are.

Finally if that is true about ict at trials tonight then it shouldn't be considered as one of his two starts to get back in draw because the rules state that you must complete the trial.

Ps. Smoken up is a freak, not the best horse just a great one and I hope he goes to hunter cup and I hope hrv finally get their handicapping of the race right cos it hasn't been for a long time.

[Toohard]

Ps. Smoken up is a freak, not the best horse just a great one and I hope he goes to hunter cup and I hope hrv finally get their handicapping of the race right cos it hasn't been for a long time.

Gday
No handicaps in Hunter Cup this year. All start from the front (RBD)