NZ Broodmare Sale

[Viv Strangman]

Who will judge the best bred mare Viv as it is only an individual's opinion and the opinion's all vary ?

Exactly the point I was trying to make Greg. Everyone of us breeders has a liking for a particular maternal family and you can make a solid case why it is better than others in the stud book. What I have difficulty with is when people class a maternal family as average or poor when in fact the exact opposite is the case. There are a lot of small Nz maternal families that Australians don't rate which are highly regarded on this side of the Tasman. I wouldn't comment on Australian maternal families because I only have a superficial knowledge of them. Would love some discussion on some of the mares in the up coming sale as it has drawn some mares that money wouldn't brought 20 years ago yet here they are today for sale.

[Viv Strangman]

'Really' Viv
I bowed to your experience but fear you are venturing into a bit of 'chest puffing'
I never claimed to speak with a lot of confidence - read the finish of my post.
I don't know whether I want to be taken too seriously
I do however enjoy chatting on a forum with like minded people - if you see it as a place for chest puffing have yourself a good time
As far as answers go - I was waiting for the answer to how many of my 5 comments you disagree with but now I am not really interested
I will never argue about the wisdom of the man on the ground but with all those books you have got I hope you read them too as some of the men on the ground could write too
And here is a 'wee' thought for you - let's not kid ourselves that results, averages etc etc are all rubbish. Just because some people distort them does not mean they are not relevant
An old favourite book of mine (superseeded by ClassicFamilies nowadays) was Ian Daff's Black Book
He allocated Tot Huon number 145 as he did not see it as quite a leading family and I reckon that is still the case, only IMO of course.

Kev,
If you are going to discuss breeding on this side of the Tasman either learn what you are discussing or expect some flack.
You bagged a family as average with few star performers when the family has numerous group one performers and is highly regarded in New Zealand and has been as long as I have been in the game.
It is hard enough for breeders like Fiona to make a go of it at sales here without ill informed comments about the maternal family she is breeding from being accepted as fact.

[figgy1]

I am delighted that I have created such a vibrant discussion on our mares family and I appreciate all comments. We are having a year off breeding this season to give our mares progeny time to show us something! We also own Jessem's band but from the time she was in foal to Red River and have sent her to stallions that will hopefully give her the opportunity, her filly Godspeed (American Ideal) is due to step out at workouts very soon and her colt Guilty Pleasure ( Real Desire) is showing a lot of promise. (We sold both these as yearlings and have been told by the owner) who has just purchased the Sportswriter colt from us. Exclusive Franco is our other mare who is taking a while to produce something but her 2nd foal In Sin City (who is racing in oz) has just won 2 in a row, not a superstar but doing ok. We have a 3 year old filly from her by Gotta Go Cullect who is due to trials soon, wanted to get the Cullen and Live or Die mix with her and looks like might go well. The mare has a double up of the Old Maid which I understand is good. So for us what started off as being in a syndicate leasing a racehorse in 2005 has really escalated into 3 mares, 2 foals to come, a yearling, 2 year old, 3 & 4 year old!!

[Messenger]

Kev,
If you are going to discuss breeding on this side of the Tasman either learn what you are discussing or expect some flack.
You bagged a family as average with few star performers when the family has numerous group one performers and is highly regarded in New Zealand and has been as long as I have been in the game.
It is hard enough for breeders like Fiona to make a go of it at sales here without ill informed comments about the maternal family she is breeding from being accepted as fact.

Like I said earlier, I am looking at the catalogue from the perspective of a buyer whereas you clearly fit into the seller category
Fiona asked for opinions and no one had given her a reply, aware that she was new to the board I thought I would give it a crack. I will only ever give what is my honest opinion
Like it or lump it but don't come onto a forum and start 'lording' it over others - get over yourself Viv


If you only want NZers to discuss NZ breeding stick to the NZ board. That won't happen because no one posts on the NZ board!
As far as bagging Fiona's filly, I made 2 positive, 1 negative, 1 fact, 1 undecided comment
I could not have qualified or downplayed my opinions much more than I did but twice now you have felt the need to come on all high and mighty

We all know how hard it is for breeders and I admire them for keeping our game going but it is highly competitive and it is not ill informed to state that family N67 has had 6 Gp1 winners - 2014, 2010, 1992, 1974, 1971, 1921. The class of those winners is what keeps it going.

Like you said - it all comes down to the individual
So how about you stop trying to silence this individual from voicing his opinion. We all expect people to disagree with us on a regular basis but forget this combative crap for I do not expect to receive 'flack' on a forum
Read my sig
Now I am going to go back to being calm and happy Kev

[Messenger]

I am delighted that I have created such a vibrant discussion on our mares family and I appreciate all comments. We are having a year off breeding this season to give our mares progeny time to show us something! We also own Jessem's band but from the time she was in foal to Red River and have sent her to stallions that will hopefully give her the opportunity, her filly Godspeed (American Ideal) is due to step out at workouts very soon and her colt Guilty Pleasure ( Real Desire) is showing a lot of promise. (We sold both these as yearlings and have been told by the owner) who has just purchased the Sportswriter colt from us. Exclusive Franco is our other mare who is taking a while to produce something but her 2nd foal In Sin City (who is racing in oz) has just won 2 in a row, not a superstar but doing ok. We have a 3 year old filly from her by Gotta Go Cullect who is due to trials soon, wanted to get the Cullen and Live or Die mix with her and looks like might go well. The mare has a double up of the Old Maid which I understand is good. So for us what started off as being in a syndicate leasing a racehorse in 2005 has really escalated into 3 mares, 2 foals to come, a yearling, 2 year old, 3 & 4 year old!!

It sounds exciting Fiona. We will all be following you now. I am barracking for American Ideal (I am wacky and get excited by things like U7xU7) and I am sure Richard will be very interested in your Gotta Go Cullect. Everybody will be interested in the Sportswriter. Cheers Kev

[eliteblood]

Trev,
Go to the Standardbred Breeders New Zealand site and the catalogue is online.
It clicks through to HRNZ site for pedigree.
Great concept. They are charging $125 entry fee and no commission. No horses at the site on the day to keep travel costs down so you need to inspect pre sale.
Timing is excellent with breeding season just around the corner.

Viv,
I think not having a catalogue page is very much part of the problem. Prospective buyers are left with a lot of work to do to "build" the pedigree page flicking from dam to 2nd dam to 3rd dam, and production records of daughters and grandaughters, etc. I think most will make a quick assessment because there is just too much work involved.
Certainly, too much effort involved for me to offer an opinion on the merits of Fiona's filly or more specifically to offer an answer to your question re who is the best bred mare in the sale. It is certainly a cheap way of putting a sale together but if I was a vendor I would be concerned that the pedigree is not out there for all to easily see. If the maternal family of Fiona's filly is as respected as you suggest then it is evidence of the problem that people involved in this discussion are not recognising it. Not a problem with the people as you tend to be inferring but a problem with the marketing.
All will be revealed on sale day and the merits or shortcomings of this sale concept will be judged. As will the respect for the maternal family belonging to Fiona's filly.

[Bonnie]

Totally agree with you Trevor. I clicked on the site and expected to see an on line catalogue. The fact that they don't have one will deter some prospective buyers from researching the pedigrees further. ( including me ) . I recognise that this is the first Sale under this new concept but if they are going to rely on the internet for marketing it needs to be improved and to provide the buyer with information at your finger tips.

[Viv Strangman]

Like I said earlier, I am looking at the catalogue from the perspective of a buyer whereas you clearly fit into the seller category
Fiona asked for opinions and no one had given her a reply, aware that she was new to the board I thought I would give it a crack. I will only ever give what is my honest opinion
Like it or lump it but don't come onto a forum and start 'lording' it over others - get over yourself Viv


If you only want NZers to discuss NZ breeding stick to the NZ board. That won't happen because no one posts on the NZ board!
As far as bagging Fiona's filly, I made 2 positive, 1 negative, 1 fact, 1 undecided comment
I could not have qualified or downplayed my opinions much more than I did but twice now you have felt the need to come on all high and mighty

We all know how hard it is for breeders and I admire them for keeping our game going but it is highly competitive and it is not ill informed to state that family N67 has had 6 Gp1 winners - 2014, 2010, 1992, 1974, 1971, 1921. The class of those winners is what keeps it going.

Like you said - it all comes down to the individual
So how about you stop trying to silence this individual from voicing his opinion. We all expect people to disagree with us on a regular basis but forget this combative crap for I do not expect to receive 'flack' on a forum
Read my sig
Now I am going to go back to being calm and happy Kev

If you post such misleading rubbish as you have on this matter, then I will pull you up every time.
If you are going to give your opinion try to make it an informed one.
As i have said a couple of times I wouldn't comment on a thread about Australian breeding because I only have a superficial knowledge of the maternal families involved.
I suggest you take the same approach to threads about New Zealand breeding

[Viv Strangman]

Viv,
I think not having a catalogue page is very much part of the problem. Prospective buyers are left with a lot of work to do to "build" the pedigree page flicking from dam to 2nd dam to 3rd dam, and production records of daughters and grandaughters, etc. I think most will make a quick assessment because there is just too much work involved.
Certainly, too much effort involved for me to offer an opinion on the merits of Fiona's filly or more specifically to offer an answer to your question re who is the best bred mare in the sale. It is certainly a cheap way of putting a sale together but if I was a vendor I would be concerned that the pedigree is not out there for all to easily see. If the maternal family of Fiona's filly is as respected as you suggest then it is evidence of the problem that people involved in this discussion are not recognising it. Not a problem with the people as you tend to be inferring but a problem with the marketing.
All will be revealed on sale day and the merits or shortcomings of this sale concept will be judged. As will the respect for the maternal family belonging to Fiona's filly.

Hi Trev,
It is the first attempt by the the Standardbred Breeders Association and the whole aim has been to minimise the cost to the vendor.
I can understand the difficulties you have with the format as it is not user friendly.
Most Kiwis breeders know the families and the pedigrees off by heart but I can understand how Australians would find it confusing and time consuming.
In New Zealand these sales are fire sales most of the time and when you take out all the fees and commission, the vendor can end up losing money.
So why the amount paid may not be any bigger, it is hoped to return most of it to the vendor.
I am not sure if this will work or not but kudos for them at least trying to help the average breeder

[Viv Strangman]

Totally agree with you Trevor. I clicked on the site and expected to see an on line catalogue. The fact that they don't have one will deter some prospective buyers from researching the pedigrees further. ( including me ) . I recognise that this is the first Sale under this new concept but if they are going to rely on the internet for marketing it needs to be improved and to provide the buyer with information at your finger tips.

It did surprise me a touch as one of the main people behind the concept is Noel Kennard who would be one of the most computer literate people you could ever meet. I am sure they will take all the comments about the sale on board as they seem to want to make it an annual event.