Odds On Pops and Other Effects on Market Share

[Messenger]

Like your thinking Mick but wouldn't it be simpler to have a single file mobile start? At least that way there wouldn't be horses starting in pockets that they can't manouvre out of.

Could have potential esp for small field size handicap

[waggamick]

I've seen the SLANTED MOBILES while watching US Harness racing on SKY.
Trouble is that they still only have a restricted handicapping spread and given our handicapping from the inside out at the moment it would mean the higher grade horses would get a start off the gate with the added advantage of track camber to slingshot them into the race.
I think my idea of a monitored start with responding devices on the horse's head or in the cart would give you an unlimited handicapping spread and hopefully better betting races and an increased turnover..
As far as cost is concerned there may be a portability between clubs.
At the moment you get an odds on pop in a race and even if they are off the Second Line its Ground Hog Day when after 500 metres the hotpot whips around the field to take the lead and set the pace.
Once he's there it means that only one or two other horses are usually a chance so that a 10 horse race becomes a 3 horse race.

[waggamick]

http://www.racing.com/news/2014-10-2...ctorian-launch

[Messenger]

I've seen the SLANTED MOBILES while watching US Harness racing on SKY.
Trouble is that they still only have a restricted handicapping spread and given our handicapping from the inside out at the moment it would mean the higher grade horses would get a start off the gate with the added advantage of track camber to slingshot them into the race.
I think my idea of a monitored start with responding devices on the horse's head or in the cart would give you an unlimited handicapping spread and hopefully better betting races and an increased turnover..
As far as cost is concerned there may be a portability between clubs.
At the moment you get an odds on pop in a race and even if they are off the Second Line its Ground Hog Day when after 500 metres the hotpot whips around the field to take the lead and set the pace.
Once he's there it means that only one or two other horses are usually a chance so that a 10 horse race becomes a 3 horse race.

It would clearly require a lot of concentration by the drivers and overall I can see it resulting in a lot of false starts and races being shafted to Sky2
Trakus should come after Hi Def pics - racing looks bloody ordinary compared to Hi Def sport. The gallops still seem to produce a better pic - I suppose because w/o carts their fields are often a lot less spread and they do use the zoom and pan more than our cameramen

[squaregaiter]

Outside TAB/SKY, the biggest single thing that needs to grow our sport is genuine handicapping and grading ( without going into integrity issues). This is why we have so many odds on horses. Can you imagine how quickly the gallops would go down the gurgler if they had as many $1.10 -$1.60 favorites a week as the harness, maybe it would do Betfair well but that is where it would stop. As mentioned elsewhere, when a horse can rip around them and stack up a field and turn it into a 3 horse race SO OFTEN ( not once a week or twice a week but DAILY ) you have to ask how/why is that horse in that field, if the field was made up of 4-6 with the same ability then you would have several ripping around the field, not to mention a decent betting race,the answer is simply, it shouldnt be, as in the gallops, you win and you go to the top of the handicapping in the next grade and you do not come down until you lose or you go to the city against proven and consistent performers in that grade, if you place then you get a further handicapped ( I am speaking in general racing terms not WFA) further, mobiles would be made more even and simpler if again you were racing against YOUR CLASS not simply luck or the SBD system of the draw / conditions of the mobile as used in Victoria anyway, it only exaggerate the basic problem yet again. It is not rocket science, it is for those that make the rules and conditions to understand they are not doing any favors in growing our sport as they stand now.

[Mark Croatto]

It would clearly require a lot of concentration by the drivers and overall I can see it resulting in a lot of false starts and races being shafted to Sky2
Trakus should come after Hi Def pics - racing looks bloody ordinary compared to Hi Def sport. The gallops still seem to produce a better pic - I suppose because w/o carts their fields are often a lot less spread and they do use the zoom and pan more than our cameramen

Hi Kevin

Why would it result in false starts? A mobile handicap can be achieved quite easily, the problem area is maintaining the handicapped horse at their distance. With modern radio and GPS technology I can see it being done quite easily. In fact Catapult Sports in Melbourne are exploring this very issue for me as I type. Hope that as a sport we are able to make this happen.

Regards
Mark

[Messenger]

Hi Kevin

Why would it result in false starts? A mobile handicap can be achieved quite easily, the problem area is maintaining the handicapped horse at their distance. With modern radio and GPS technology I can see it being done quite easily. In fact Catapult Sports in Melbourne are exploring this very issue for me as I type. Hope that as a sport we are able to make this happen.

Regards
Mark

I was thinking that the ability of the drivers to be in posn (the way Mick was suggesting - possibly responding to a green/red light on a transponder) will be a big factor in whether it can work
I was imaging false starts if a horse over corrects (esp at the last moment) and is too far in fr of his handicap when told to move up or is too far behind his handicap when told to ease off (and possibly interferes with a trailing row)
I imagine you would need at least 3 light colours for move up, correct, ease off
I guess I do not see it as that easy as the horses brains are not necessarily in sync with the drivers brain

[Mark Croatto]

I was thinking that the ability of the drivers to be in posn (the way Mick was suggesting - possibly responding to a green/red light on a transponder) will be a big factor in whether it can work
I was imaging false starts if a horse over corrects (esp at the last moment) and is too far in fr of his handicap when told to move up or is too far behind his handicap when told to ease off (and possibly interferes with a trailing row)
I imagine you would need at least 3 light colours for move up, correct, ease off
I guess I do not see it as that easy as the horses brains are not necessarily in sync with the drivers brain

Hi Kevin

The most likely way to ensure a horse is on its correct handicap mark would be by the drivers wearing an ear piece through which the driver is constantly told how many metres behind the mobile their horse is; think Navman lady. This would continue until the start where it would then switch off.

I accept that not all horses would be suited, but I see it no different to the fact that not all horses are suited by standing starts. I would imagine there would be a need to qualify a horse to start in such races.

Personally I think it would open up quite extensively the options for programming races. I'm not at all a fan of the R/C/M gradings, and whilst I accept it is a straight forward and easy way to grade horses, it does very little to ensure horse of similar ability are racing each other. I would far prefer a rating system which is incorporated with a mobile handicap. NSW has been trialling a conditioned approach and yet we still end up with clearly superior horses dominating races and completely stifling betting. If those same horses however were handicapped to give a 10, 15 or 20 metre start the betting would be completely different.

As I said earlier, it's something being explored at the moment and I personally hope it comes to fruition.

Regards

Mark

[Amlin]

On a slightly related matter, we hear how much of an increase greyhounds have had to their turnover in recent years as opposed to harness.

While they promote their sport very well, the following must also be considered.

While the amount of trotting staged per week has remained largely constant, there would be something like nine extra dog meets on the TAB in Vic each week now compared to 10 years ago.

Naturally their share is going to increase. It probably should be up more than it is.

[arlington]

On a slightly related matter, we hear how much of an increase greyhounds have had to their turnover in recent years as opposed to harness.

While they promote their sport very well, the following must also be considered.

While the amount of trotting staged per week has remained largely constant, there would be something like nine extra dog meets on the TAB in Vic each week now compared to 10 years ago.

Naturally their share is going to increase. It probably should be up more than it is.

GRV appear to have a very active participation program. Not sure if it's as involved as our two training centres, which are excellent, but seems to be a promo program more so than a structured training course. I'm only assuming the GRV program is still running where interested people head to The Meadows to discover/have an intro to Owning/training. Obviously participation rates are crucial to their increased race numbers and would imagine quite a few punters would go along.


Going back to the Showgrounds era we did have something similar. Too young to go myself but people would head into the Showgrounds of an evening where a trainer, driver and I think steward would give a run through. Pretty popular I think and remember someone I knew took his wife along to record in short hand! Food for thought?