Reply With QuoteYes Trish, that would be nice :-)Originally Posted by trish
In that case Trevor lets hope they buy yours & ours.
Yes Trish, that would be nice :-)
The reason is such that this Thread exists. There are two types of horse that All Stars bring to Australia. It is extremely expensive to bring a horse from NZ to race and hence they are the cream of the crop such as Lazarus, Have Faith in Me,and Dream About Me. THe others like Prince Fearless, Chase the Dream and Picadilly Princess are those able to take full advantage of the Australian Handicapping system. This is something the All Stars do with excellent success. These horses have won most of there races and stakes in 2 and 3 year old restricted age and group races in NZ. Whilst they are recognised in NZ for handicapping they are not in Australia, hence they seriously drop down the grades in Australia.
Post 37 suggests the NZ handicapping system sucks. Many Australians would be thinking the Australian system sucks when they understand it is that very system that allows All Stars to plunder your stakes and races of all grades.
All Stars dont bemoan your system when it works against them either. They look for races to suit the needs and abilities of their horses. A classic case in point is the campaign of Picadilly Princess in West Australia during the Interdoms. Her program was to take in two Group races for fillies and mares assessed at M1 and faster. Unfortunately for the connections including the breeder of such a valuable mare(already a dual Group 1 winner) she was assessed under the Australian system as M0. Remember she was a dual G1 winner but they were both Oaks races for 3yo fillies only. i.e. handicap system took no account of that. Hence All Stars looked to alternatives that met her M0 status. a race well down on her class with the expected result.
Last edited by teecee; 01-29-2017 at 08:16 PM.
I am just stirring a bit Trevor. It is good to hear that quite a few of MP's owners are Australian so that their money may help the Oz industry provided they continue to spend at our sales.
If the NZ climate/grass is not a major factor, it will not be long before all the imported NZ blood over here produces as many champs as they seem to (per capita)
Greg Sugars was a Champion harness racing person
Agreed. The Kiwi bench at the Australian sales has grown thanks to Mark and the success he is having with his Aussie purchases. This allows him to further plunder your wealth. Waikiki Beach is a case in point. One of the secrets of All Stars success is being able to place there horses for best effect. Whilst he won at Group 2 level on debut in NZ he was not really rated alongside his stable peers. He was Australian bred and sales product thus eligible for a number of lucrative series. By being so placed by his trainers to ensure his best opportunities a horse who may only have won 2 or 3 races in NZ managed to win 23 consecutively
Yes Tony and with the far greater racing opportunities over here, it means there will always be a market for NZ horses. I guess it sort of makes up for the fewer racing ops and means many of your owner/breeders are sellers - don't they say that every NZ horse is for sale (for the right price)
Greg Sugars was a Champion harness racing person
[QUOTE=Showgrounds;49604]Interesting thread. While jealousy appears rife at the Purdon / Rasmussen success last night demonstrated how superior their horses are - and they as trainers.
Interesting comment on the TV - whoever it was said Vincent wouldn't have been in the top 5 3yos in the stable at the start of the season. Stupid comment - he won his only start (beating Ultimate Machete easily) before injury put him out.
That comment was initially made by the trainers in regards these horses at 2. That is not to say they are poor judges. It was simply a comment on how each of their youngsters rates against their contemporaries in the stable. At that same time Horses like Ultimate Machete and Waikiki Beach didn't rate in the 5 either. It is a graphic of the strength of their young horses coming up and each year is more astounding than the last.
Time has shown how AllStars can assess the best opportunities for their horses. Ultimate Machete developed to become No1 3yo as he grew into his massive frame and Waikiki Beach plundered 23 straight in Australia where his best options lay rather than just going round behind his "Better rated" stablemates.
While many can only see change when you have been away and come back, the All Stars trainers can see where their horses are at day in, day out and meet the changing needs of the individual horses placing them to greatest advantage for hose and connections.
Lazarus is a bona-fide champion already and he will no doubt be remembered for many decades. At Menangle, the only horse to have beaten him TWICE won going 1:49.9 - Chase the Dream. How he gets assessed as a C3 is beyond me.
[B]Refer post 44...
Last edited by Messenger; 01-29-2017 at 11:28 PM. Reason: Colour for clarity :)
That's true I can't remeber the name of a horse sold out of the Barry Purdon barn who was on the verge of NZ Cup class, had won over $400,000 including a Jewels race. He went to Queensland and raced as a very lowly assessment because the Australian Handicapping system said those races didn't count. They were age group Group 1-3 races. There is money to be made in Australia for NZ owners and thus a new burgeoning market.....Aussie trainers now looking to train NZ horses for their NZ owners. The message is "dont sell take advantage of the Australian conditions yourself" like the All Stars without the extra costs of return shipping and shorter campaigns.
My point was that the Australian system is very weak (read WAP) when it allows horses from another country to enter into races and get generous handicaps when obviously the horse has more ability than the locals and more to the point has actually proven it. I have been one of the few on this forum to actually praise the Purdon team and their success. My post was general in nature , not about the Purdon team. Ever heard the team "Burglar" in golf? well what is happening is the harness racing version of that. Furthermore, I often read about the Purdon success story being the cause of increased buying at the sales and the money is coming back to Australia etc etc, my radar tells me this " reversing of the money" explanation does not hold water and it's impact cannot be measured as a fact. I think the impact would be minimal.
What other sport allows this generosity to happen? Is there another sporting organisation in the world as stupid as ours that allows this type of thing to go on?
Its not horses from other countries perse, it is horses who won less races over the stakes threshold as an older horse. Lennytheshark came back in an M0 after winning the NSW Derby, Magic Oats won an M0 at Melton despite several Saturday nighy wins at Albion Park. A few get through the cracks but by and large it is better than having a heap of horses reach their mark in lower prizemoney/juvenile events and being lost to the racetrack too early.
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