Eastman pleads guilty

[Danno]

This iris from another website.
"Larry Eastman, a legend of Victorian harness racing who just last year was awarded a Harness Racing Australia Meritorious Award, was charged by police in a corruption case involving illegal stomach tubing of horses and gambling".

Me: Should these awards be taken off him I think the answer is yes and barred for life.

my opinion is......abso-bloody-lutely.....

[aussiebreno]

This is reflective of how much the industry relies on the big names. I live in Ararat, half hour from "the Gap'. I have had harness horses all my life. My father had harness racing horses and now my son Leroy is a licensed trainer and driver. I apologise for having to introduce myself but I would expect a person commenting on local harness racing to be aware of the local participants.
The comments you made are relevant but what is new. People are being deterred from owning a harness horse due to the poor public impression currently. Owners and trainers are involved in litigation, Luke McCarthy and my name sake from the gallopers. Nobling is something out of ongoing stewards inquiries for as long as racing has been. First line of defence, "someone got to my horse". "Must have been the feed" etc. I am proposing something new to the industry. Anyone have a better suggestion?
I apologise for hijacking Larry's post. I am new to this caper and would have started a new post if I knew how. Banning horses and trainers is something I am passionate about and will continue to use any available forum to rally support for this.

Welcome to forum. I have heard of both you and Leroy despite not watching many races from South-west Victoria. I would have thought someone half hour away from you with over 5500 posts would have known too lol. In the past he has also questioned things like a towns name being made up so I wouldn't take any offence Danny.

I like the idea of banning horses for 12 months. In the past I've been against it because you can be punishing innocent owners, but we've seen Essendon Bombers sit out a year and Melbourne Storm been stripped of premierships when it wasn't the players faults. They've still gained from the cheating, so need to cop the punishment. 12 months over a career isn't extreme, still plenty of time to win races and by time you have spell and get back in training its only really about 6months off anyway. A lot of owners would have to have an inkling what their trainers are up to so I think this would be a good rule.

[aussiebreno]

How are you going to get newbies into syndicates if down the track they find their horse suspended for 12 months for something they did not do
Imagine the word of mouth recommendation they are going to give the industry

As I said in post 11, I am all for slamming the offender as the way forward

Nobbling will always be a defence but my devious mind thinks that under your system it could actually come back in vogue as criminal types, who would do anything to get an edge, would see the reward as not just seeing the opposition forced to change stable BUT eliminated for 12 months

I don't think the word of mouth with owners is going great at the moment Kevin.

So currently rivals aren't getting at horses the days before a race when it is confirmed certainty they are racing against a rival horse, but they will get at it because there is a possibility sometime in the next 12 months it may be a rival?

[Messenger]

Welcome to forum. I have heard of both you and Leroy despite not watching many races from South-west Victoria. I would have thought someone half hour away from you with over 5500 posts would have known too lol. In the past he has also questioned things like a towns name being made up so I wouldn't take any offence Danny.

Thanks Brendan, you're the best - I think I should leave it to you LOL

[Danno]

I think Gumnut's idea has some benefits, but I reckon it should be used in addition to other deterrents, imagine the situation where you have a horse that has extremely limited ability ( and there are plenty of them around), trainer loads the horse up for one big go at winning a race it was probably never going to win, horse wins and is retired...no punishment for the owner, just rewards.

Despite what I have already written, I believe a period of disqualification for the horse will reduce the ocurrance of "pretend trainers", the all too familiar situation where an about to be disqualified trainer transfers all the horses to a mate or family member, why? because the owners of the other horses in "the barn" don't want to be the next to have their horse DQ'd and see the risk is quite high.

Plus of course we do need stronger and more consistent deterrents for licensees , and some of the penalties being handed out in Victoria appear to be very lenient compared to elsewhere at the moment and I personally believe NSW could be crank their penalties up a notch or 2 on what they have already done.

Also while I'm on my soap box, the media have a case to answer in all this, how many time have we seen various members of the media fawning over "fallen stars" on their return from disqualification as if nothing has happened, that makes the honest people sick to the guts.

Welcome to the forum Danny, the more trainers/ drivers perspectives we get on this forum the more balanced the debate in my humble opinion.

cheers,
Danno

[aussiebreno]

I think Gumnut's idea has some benefits, but I reckon it should be used in addition to other deterrents, imagine the situation where you have a horse that has extremely limited ability ( and there are plenty of them around), trainer loads the horse up for one big go at winning a race it was probably never going to win, horse wins and is retired...no punishment for the owner, just rewards.

Despite what I have already written, I believe a period of disqualification for the horse will reduce the ocurrance of "pretend trainers", the all too familiar situation where an about to be disqualified trainer transfers all the horses to a mate or family member, why? because the owners of the other horses in "the barn" don't want to be the next to have their horse DQ'd and see the risk is quite high.

Plus of course we do need stronger and more consistent deterrents for licensees , and some of the penalties being handed out in Victoria appear to be very lenient compared to elsewhere at the moment and I personally believe NSW could be crank their penalties up a notch or 2 on what they have already done.

Also while I'm on my soap box, the media have a case to answer in all this, how many time have we seen various members of the media fawning over "fallen stars" on their return from disqualification as if nothing has happened, that makes the honest people sick to the guts.

Welcome to the forum Danny, the more trainers/ drivers perspectives we get on this forum the more balanced the debate in my humble opinion.

cheers,
Danno

Agree

[arlington]

I think Gumnut's idea has some benefits, but I reckon it should be used in addition to other deterrents, imagine the situation where you have a horse that has extremely limited ability ( and there are plenty of them around), trainer loads the horse up for one big go at winning a race it was probably never going to win, horse wins and is retired...no punishment for the owner, just rewards.

Despite what I have already written, I believe a period of disqualification for the horse will reduce the ocurrance of "pretend trainers", the all too familiar situation where an about to be disqualified trainer transfers all the horses to a mate or family member, why? because the owners of the other horses in "the barn" don't want to be the next to have their horse DQ'd and see the risk is quite high.

Plus of course we do need stronger and more consistent deterrents for licensees , and some of the penalties being handed out in Victoria appear to be very lenient compared to elsewhere at the moment and I personally believe NSW could be crank their penalties up a notch or 2 on what they have already done.

Also while I'm on my soap box, the media have a case to answer in all this, how many time have we seen various members of the media fawning over "fallen stars" on their return from disqualification as if nothing has happened, that makes the honest people sick to the guts.

Welcome to the forum Danny, the more trainers/ drivers perspectives we get on this forum the more balanced the debate in my humble opinion.

cheers,
Danno

I could be repeating myself but we do stand horses down for hormones.

The debate has come up in wider circles before and the new, naïve syndicate member argument came to the fore. Pretty sure, and from my perspective it wasn't coincidental, it was pre yearling sales time. One could have taken the position it was more about yearling sales than protecting the newbies. I'd be happy to not introduce a stand down if those breeders/vendors agreed to not sell their yearlings to a known cheat or a syndicate manager who has sent horses to a cheat. Yep, a fantasy.

I realise we need new owners, syndicates, but as for their naivety(?) Would there be many people interested in going into a race horse who hadn't come across the Moody, O'B, Kav or even Essendon F C stories? And they would think it couldn't happen in harness racing?
I would wonder about a newbie owner's character if clean racing put them off ownership.

Whether it be horse stand down or another more severe deterrent, as one of the many owners that pays for quite a bit more than 1/20th of one horse's hoof (with no disrespect to any syndicate members) I'd hope I would be looked out for as much as member 1/20th. Some may have a view that the many owners like me should be looked out for more?


And welcome to the forum Gumnut.
I remember this, in my neck of the woods http://www.harness.org.au/media-room...?news_id=33637
Well done Leroy

[gumnut]

Thank you for your kind comments.
At least one thing hsas come out of this discussion, Kevin and I dont know each other.
I have been a keen reader of this forum for a long time now. I recognise all the people who have taken time out to add their opinion and look forward to reading this forum daily. I have not joined in the conversations because I knew I would get myself into strife with my big mouth. One thing is I will not apologise for the stance I take against cheats in this industry. I could not agree more with Dan. The fallen stars. Take the Bendigo stable, ( and I loved the remark Kevin made about this stable being in form and would be able to afford to fill in the pit, or whatever the wording was), HRV representatives run to interview him pre race and announce him as the funniest man in harness racing. He may well be but wait till people forget about his recent brush with authorities. I fail to see anything funny about what he was involved in. I agree that HRV need to take a firmer stance. Their raceapacer program has a trainer which has a forecoming hearing regarding the use of a very serious drug. Wonder what will happen if this trainer gets found guilty and only receives a fine. Take the other western district trainer who earlier in the year had a positive to arsenic and went again for giving a horse an illicit substance to trial. Fined due to his good record. Look I could go on and on but really who that has the power to change is listening.
On a lighter note, dont be too hard on yourself Kevin. Harness racing people probably dont approach you because some would not know the device you have on the side of your head is to assist hearing, they might think it is a camera and microphone, or even a device to control a drone.
I really enjoy this forum and I would like to wish everyone a merry Christmas and a rewarding new year.

[arlington]

And a merry Christmas to you Danny, and to all here.

In fairness to Kev, he is a moderator, love them or hate them. Like umpiring or stewarding, moderating isn't on my bucket list. I too wondered about Danny O'Brien posting in a substance related thread.
And I've had my arguments and run ins with Kev but I'd be gone if I had to be an expert or historian on local participants to be on here. Four + decades in the sport, two + in northern Vic/Goulburn Valley and I still wouldn't know some prominent local names.
We don't mind some spirited debate, at times I think we yearn for it but Breno, that 5500 post jibe might have been borderline below the belt.

Anyway, any chance of Leroy saying g'day Danny? I guess he's more inclined toward twitter and face book if he's that way inclined at all. Wouldn't be expecting anything controversial from him, just how his team's going, his aspirations, what he's enthusiastic about, anything like that. Or dad might like to tell us a bit more about him, without embarrassing him It may even give him a bit of exposure.

[gumnut]

Thanks Wayne however the bird has flown. Leroy is walking away from the sport for the time being. In his words "its just too hard". Maybe why I am a little emotional about the industry and the way it is heading. I gave my license up for the same reason, however will need to look at getting it back to sort the paddock full of horses out before retiring altogether. Leroy has had a good introduction into the sport working with leading stables. Due to not being a big name in the industry he was not given the driving opportunities he thoroughly deserved in my biased opinion. This led to him not believing in himself as a driver and employing others to complete this chore on many occassions. As for training he trained 13 individual winners last year including the Ararat trotters cup, the home bred Vicbred final for 2 year old fillies and the ladyship in Adelaide. The stable earned over $100000 last year in stakemoney,with bonuse's included. He was over the moon to train his first metropolitan winner, which he also drove, only to have his winners interview cut short by the commentator announcing a protest. One of the stables who like winning everything, (including trials if the recent report regarding Josh Aitken is correct) protested. Thats his right to protest and the stewards right to give Aitken a warning for wasting their time. Little things like this get to me. The stable was not getting a fair go as far as i was concerned so I wrote to the minister of sport, the chairman of stewards and the CEO. In hindsight a silly idea. As far as exposure, we work horse for a little more then what it costs us. All the horses given to the stable to train have had their issues or are poorly bred. We introduce many owners to this sport. The owners are then poached by leading stables and the owners drift away. We purchased a horse at the Shepparton sale intending to sell shares. We avertised the horses shares on facebook only to receive a phone call from a HRV representative telling Leroy to take down the post as he does not have a license to syndicate horses. We were not syndicating as such, just looking for partners. As I said; "its just too hard". - anyone want to buy a horse.