Silly question...sorry

[mango]

Hi Zipper

I actually outcrossed when sending a mare to Falcon Seelster not so long ago, i was told for it to be a genetic outcross there had to be know genetic crosses in the first 4 generation's but i could of been told wrong. I do understand what you are saying about linebreeding but i aslo think there is merit in it to a certain extent, if i try and line breed i like it to be a reverse sex cross where it come's through a stallion on one side but on the other side i like it to come through a strong producing mare who is by that same stallion. Prime example would be Toohard's Perfect Art mare matched with Rocknroll Heaven as Perfect Art is by Artsplace and Rocknroll Heaven's dam is by Artsplace and one would think doubling up on this cross of the great Artsplace could be a good thing. This is only my opinion and something i will be trying myself.

[triplev123]

The important thing to keep in mind here is that, depending wholly and solely upon the bloodlines of a mare, any given sire can respresent either an outcross or further linebreeding. That Breeding Consultants and so on label various sires as being exclsuively either one or the other is, IMO, completely misleading.

[Zipper]

Triple... please elaborate further, I'm not sure I fully understand your point?

[Zipper]

Mango,

Help me understand why doubling up on Artsplace is a good thing?

[triplev123]

G'day Zipper,

I've had a couple of shots at explaining it & citing some examples but was not happy with how it read so I deleted each of them. Will take another shot tomorrow off a good night's sleep and with a clear head.

[mango]

Hi Zipper

As i said it's only my opinion, the way i look at it Artsplace was a super racehorse and is a sire of sire's and a great broodmare sire so why not try and combine the 2. The thing i like about doing a 3x3 Artsplace with Toohard's mare is Perfect Art done a good job here in Aus and his full brother is doing a super job so i believe it is a strong family and if you were to go to RNR Heaven you are sending your mare to a great racehorse who's dam is by Artsplace and was a strong race mare herself pacing 1:50.2 and winning $630k she has had 2 old enough to race with 2 in 1:49.3 or better. Her full brother is also by Artsplace and won over $1.3 mil. So to me they look like 2 strong families with Artsplace influence both through a sire side and the other through the dam's side. As i said this is only my opinion and breeding can be like buying a lotto ticket and waiting for your number's to come out which might never happen. Only time will tell and just for interest sake i'm strongly considering doing the 3x3 Artsplace cross with one of my mare's and with the other mare a 3x4 cross with Direct Scooter Mach 3 mare to Rocknroll Hanover if he come's out. So if i'm wrong in doing this you could say i'll be wrong in a big way.

[triplev123]

G'day Zipper,

I've had a couple of shots at explaining it & citing some examples but was not happy with how it read so I deleted each of them. Will take another shot tomorrow off a good night's sleep and with a clear head.

G'day again Zipper,

Try this on for size. Hope it makes sense.

Let's say you have an In The Pocket mare from a Falcon Seelster mare from a Lordship mare and you breed her to Bettor's Delight.
Despite the fact that BD is heavily linebred to Hal Dale he is effectively an Outcross to the majority of the pedigree influences in that particular mare.

On the other hand, let's say you have a Safely Kept mare from Soky's Atom mare from a Smooth Fella mare and you breed her to Bettor's Delight. In that particular instance BD represents further Line Breeding.

Or take Somebeachsomewhere.

His pedigree is such that in North America he represents an outcross to the vast majority of the bloodlines present in their commercial broodmare population...save mares by Matt's Scooter.

Down here he can be an outcross for much the same reasons as the above...or he can represent further linebreeding to Direct Scooter via the numerous daughters of In The Pocket, Christian Cullen, Courage Under Fire, Ok Bye, Stoneridge Scooter etc.

For a couple of good Sthn Hemisphere produced examples of Outcross pedigrees check out those of Four Starzzz Flash and Franco Nester.

For a couple of good examples of Sthn Hemisphere produced Linebred pedigrees check out those of Blacks A Fake and Ima Spicey Lombo.

[Zipper]

Mango,

Firstly, I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are saying and in fact that is one of the challenges with breeding most things are neither wrong or right!!

Your logic makes sense and I am not here to critique it. I am purely interested in understanding different points of view.

Thanks for sharing.

[Zipper]

Triple,

I interpret your post as:

Any Stallion can represent both out-cross and line breeding opportunities, it just depends on the mare?

[mango]

Hey Zipper

Your right thing's are neither right or wrong in the breeding game which make's it interesting and very hard at the same time. One thing i do find hard is selecting stallion's for mare's who's progeny you want to put through the sale ring in the hope of some return. Do you go to a tried and proven stallion or do you go to the you beaut one who is comming out for the 1st time. If you go to the proven one at least he has the runs on the board and then again some trainers could of gone of him by the time your's is ready to sell and then there's going to the new one comming out of cause but then come sale time there's over 100 yearling's by the same sire in the sale's. So to sum thing's up whether your linebreeding/outcrossing, breeding for sale's or to race yourself it is one big gamble i can see why a lot of people don't breed as it's easier to go to the sale's and pick the one you want that's standing right in front of you..