The ASBP Report: How can they be serious? Bad news for harness owners

[eliteblood]

The more I think about it, the more dubious I am about its effect in terms of increasing the number of mares bred.
Almost all mares that are good enough to earn a reasonable amount of broodmare credits would have been bred from anyway IMO.
In my case, nothing would change except I would be getting some or all of the service fee paid for me. I suspect that would be the most common scenario. I am sure there will be some additional mares bred and some will also be bred to a better stallion than would otherwise have been the case but I believe the overall breeding impact will be less than what I initially imagined.
I think the scheme would be beneficial in terms of increasing the pool of racemares and therefore the ability of mares to race against their own sex and therefore the earning capacity of mares and therefore the value of fillies. The breeding and the racing segments of our one harness racing industry would both derive some benefits as a result of that.

[triplev123]

Hey TBM,

When you write...
FACT: Australian breeders produce a lot of rubbish.

and then...
FACT: The Import Fee attacks the bottom end of the food chain in terms of NZ purchases. The cheapest point of entry (meaning cheapest horses) are the ones hurt the most.

[VVV] Those points are contradictory because, while I agree wholeheartedly with you in regard to the entry point aspect, the cheapest horses...the entry points...are those which are considered to be the rubbish in NZ.
You can't on one hand come out and berate Oz breeders for producing horses that you don't think are up to standard (QUOTE- Australian breeders produce a lot of rubbish), turn around and shop at Crazy Prices or Chicken Feed for your going concerns in NZ ...then hold those prices up as the yardstick to which Oz Breeders should be selling their yearlings /going horses at.
If Australian Breeders produce so much rubbish, have a look at the last 10 years worth of 2yo & 3yo $ earners here in Oz and make note the % of NZ bred imports that have been able to earn anything like their Oz bred counterparts.

[triplev123]

TBM writes [Lets put this in perspective Mightymo shall we. Of course you are going to be showered with compliments and praise, because the claer majority of breeders will be cock-a-hoop because they see their costs potentially go down.]
That's not quite right mate. In fact, if Breeders avail themselves of NZ based sires their costs WILL go up via the % of the Stallion fee being passed down the line + the fact that a colt foal resulting will cost them more to register. Essentially this plan serves to both actively & tacitly financially nudge breeders towards using Oz based sires.
In fact, I find it more than just somewhat interesting that the venerable committees of the various Oz Standardbred Breeders Associations are NOT out in the streets banging the pot lids on that score as this aspect essentially imposes a restriction on the choices available to their members. Could it be that they're in bed with the Australian based studs?
Nah, perish the thought. Totally independent them. (bullshit, bullshit, bullshit) It reminds me so much of Monty Python's wonderful sketch...Nudge Nudge, Wink. Wink http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ona-RhLfRfc "A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat eh? Nudge nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more."

[triplev123]

Eliteblood do you really think the impact of the NBCS will be marginal? If this is the case, then why are we bothering going down this path?



If what you are saying here is true, then the scheme has failed abysmally. The idea is to encourage breeding through NBCS credits, accumulated through a prolonged track career. Maybe this is why the credits cannot be allocated to the owner for the exact reason you mentioned.

The net benefit of the scheme is to pump an additional $2.2 million into service fees. This is where it will end up. How much of that overlaps (in terms of mares whom accumulated credits but would have been bred with anyway) well that is anyones guess and no one will ever know the actual answer, even after looking back on data, let alone looking forward.

This is maybe why credits need to be allocated to lower echelon races. This then will contradict with wanting to ensure improvement of the breed as the scheme effectively entices the quality to be diluted simply to get more foals on the ground. I can see how that is problematic.

I do feel though that to suggest there will be marginal benefit to stallion owners overall from the scheme is a bit short of the mark.

[VVV] In all seriousness TBM...if you were made aware of the nitty gritty financials behind the majority of these high profile horses & you were then asked if you wanted a piece of the action I can guarentee that it that you would run away screaming. Having been direct & indirect witness to a number of them over recent years...I'd be prepared to swear on a stack of Bibles that nobody out there other than the American syndicates are making any real money out of these Southern Hemisphere rights/shuttle deals.
That is why it is my long & very strongly held belief that the sooner the Australian Breeding Industry moves to a culture of breeding our own sires, the better off we will all be.

[aussiebreno]

you are very wrong. For most owners, its not about winning. Its about the excitement of racing a horse and the possibility of winning. No one buys horses thinking they are going to make money...

If its about excitement of racing and people expect to lose cash (which yeah you're right and when I get the cash I will be part of that group) then why are numbers dropping and why is cash an incentive to stay when you just said cash isn't a motivation for those involved? How queer is that.

[aussiebreno]

[VVV] In all seriousness TBM...if you were made aware of the nitty gritty financials behind the majority of these high profile horses & you were then asked if you wanted a piece of the action I can guarentee that it that you would run away screaming. Having been direct & indirect witness to a number of them over recent years...I'd be prepared to swear on a stack of Bibles that nobody out there other than the American syndicates are making any real money out of these Southern Hemisphere rights/shuttle deals.
That is why it is my long & very strongly held belief that the sooner the Australian Breeding Industry moves to a culture of breeding our own sires, the better off we will all be.

Much love to you VVV.

[mightymo]

why do people buy lotto tickets??

The possibility of winning, or in our case the possiblity of getting a good horse who can win good races/money

[The Big Mile]

If its about excitement of racing and people expect to lose cash (which yeah you're right and when I get the cash I will be part of that group) then why are numbers dropping and why is cash an incentive to stay when you just said cash isn't a motivation for those involved? How queer is that.

Gee Aussiebreno. You had me fooled as I thought you would have been an owner and breeder. You said yourself you are neither.

Would hate to see how involved you got in discussion once you actually dip your toe in the water and speak from experience.

It will be carnage.

[Flashing Red]

Triple V -
I haven't read this whole thread, but the reason why at this stage I would prefer to breed to American sires is because I think, simply, they are still better. I'm not illusioned by 1:47 miles - but what the top horses could do over there, I don't think ours could match it. I mean if Shark Gesture raced her 12 months ago IMHO none of our Grand Circuit horses would have seen where he went. I think Rocknroll Heaven would have made a mess of our Grand Circuit horses too. I think the gap between the Southern and Northern Hemisphere is closing, rapidly, but the gap isn't closed yet.

[aussiebreno]

why do people buy lotto tickets??

The possibility of winning, or in our case the possiblity of getting a good horse who can win good races/money

No need to go to the third umpire and get out the snickometer, it was a clear deflection off the bat and you've been caught out at 1st slip.
Maybe like many umpires you just didn't see it; I asked if money isn't a motivation for owners then why is it being offered as an incentive? The newsagent doesn't give me $4 to get my $5 scratchie.