If you really meant the How does this apply as if you do not understand his point, why did you originally sayOriginally Posted by Dot
"An inaccurate and unfair assertion in my opinion."
That does not suggest you didn't understand his point
I asked Wayne to elaborate Kev. Perhaps I worded it poorly, certainly spelt poorly now that you’ve highlighted it!
“Some industry insiders who support driver colours do so in support of their association with a particular driver/s. It's not necessarily an improvement to the bottom line of the industry as a whole they're thinking about.”
How does this apply? Not which industry insider it applies to.
If you really meant the How does this apply as if you do not understand his point, why did you originally say
"An inaccurate and unfair assertion in my opinion."
That does not suggest you didn't understand his point
Greg Sugars was a Champion harness racing person
I am closing this thread for the evening - I will reopen it in the morning (moderator's perogative)
Greg Sugars was a Champion harness racing person
Who can name these horses ?
How many of the stars do you think you would be able to name if the colours were removed from the image? The horses colours IMO become an integral part of the horse.
Those of use old enough can instantly recognise Gammalite with his yellow colours and black sash. If Brian Hancock had been wearing his own orange and black checks, I wonder how many people would have known who the horse was?
I am all for promoting our drivers and feel that a lot more could be done to utilise the star appeal of the Chris Alfords, the Kerryn Mannings, the Natalie Rasmussens, etc. but I don't think them wearing a consistent set of colours is an overall benefit to the industry.
The champion horses are the real stars of the sport, those that the public identify with and get excited about. We should make it easier for this to happen by making them as identifiable as possible.
I would be surprised if drivers racing in their own colours increased betting turnover by 0.1%
The sooner this idea is discarded the better.
How disappointing would it be to see this great horse in anything but his famous cerise colours?
Who would be putting their hand up to tell Jack and Bob Ingham that a decision had been made that their horses would no longer be wearing these colours because we think people would bet more if the jockey wore his own colours instead.
You have convinced me Trevor. Champions come to be identified with a set of colours.
Champions have more jockey changes (even if it is just the odd one) than owner or trainer changes so let's not fiddle with things for a 'it might ...'
Greg Sugars was a Champion harness racing person
Just noticed Trevor's posts as I was penning a post. Just two words, totally agree. How far would driver colours take us, I was going to say in my original post, would be lucky if it took us to the next tram stop. A geographic change but no real change to the situation.
My post in reply to yesterday:-
I only used AFL and the bont as an example as I follow the bulldogs. In the AFLW I like Erin Phillips but wouldn’t have a clue of either player’s number. On the need for numbers, AFL, you have 36 contestants versus 10 harness racers. Harness racing doesn’t have scrums and scrimmages. Well, we try not to.
I may have been brief in some of what I posted, rather than cryptic., I was up watching Roger and Novak. I didn’t post until later in the morning, I was going to delete and not bother as I envisaged your attack Dot and your inability to rationally accept people can have differing views.
I’ve given my thoughts, didn’t argue or attack yours. I was being positive in looking at promoting drivers, irrespective of colours and as I suggested on Breeders Crown day.
To clarify some insiders, not all as you’ve twisted it around to. And for that matter I don’t appreciate someone trying to misrepresent me or use me as their springboard. I wouldn’t even say you’ve been shrewd in your methods, not even cunning. A transparent and poor, attempt to redress when queried by the moderator. You’re losing credibility by the minute Dot.
There was no notion of corruption when I penned that, although I could have written some people within the sport which includes owners as well as media. However, I didn’t think the way I expressed suggested in any way anything corrupt. A person Interpreting it in that way could indicate that person believes or has knowledge of that sort of thing going on.
I may have written in the way I did, brevity, as Roger might have had three match points at that stage.
Now that you can pat yourself on the back with your attempt to denounce and misrepresent me once again, I will elaborate.
Some owners will support a driver’s pursuit as she/he is already their preferred driver and by not supporting them, she or he might jump off and on to another horse. Similarly, and nothing corrupt, some media. Like most things, there's lobbying, nothing corrupt but it's often wise to look a bit deeper into why people/s support.
Yep, I realise the VRT comes in August 1 and yes restraint of trade, for a driver who also trains still going to VCAT if they’re put out for a serious training offence. Not sure the Act has the power to disqualify both licences i.e. no restraint of trade VCAT merit applications. Even if the VRT does/can disqualify, as opposed to a suspension of just one licence and it goes no further, great, but that still doesn’t do anything to change my position on driver colours.
I gave a couple of examples of younger media personalities with a profile not in support of driver colours. One comes from within the industry and one who has come from outside.
Making a reference to Kati’s post 44, some more wise heads have also suggested driver colours are way down the list of things to worry about, if at all.
Don’t know whether to take that as an insult or compliment Kev.I will give a flounce Dot
You are bad for the tone of this forum - you may not realize it but you are a keyboard warrior who has rarely shown herself to be graceful in debate
Nonsense again:
"On your arguememt seems there are no benefit to individual trainer and owner colours either for your saying no one can recognise/remember those either"
You conveniently forget that we are not talking about regular diehards. OF COURSE REGULARS RECOGNIZE THEM (even driving styles - remember your point). You brought up that we are doing it for occasional punters that we want coming back
No, I won't believe you for at present I believe that you see this thread as a debate for winning and I think you believe in winning at all costs
Twice you have used the wording:
"for most watchers, punters and participants they served to de identify the horses and particularly the drivers."
I assume then that you have a document stating this
“As a promoter I can do WAY more for each driver as a brand if they had their own set of silks and identity. Drivers are the best promoters we have and you can build a better reputation for the sport if they are used more widely..”
I still think that the benefit is potentially WAY more for each driver but I am not really convinced. I am not sure I agree that drivers are the best promoters of the sport - we don't get much out of them and rarely anything of interest (very few are media savvy). As I said before - if one shows themself to be a natural we will use them until the cows come home (and if we manage to get a public profile for him/her - give him/her GOLD colours)
We will put Shane down for pro - I reckon it will also earn him points with his rockstar wife
You still have provided ZERO proof of Driver's colours helping any country/industry or even proof that this is what has contributed to any driver's profile being lifted
You are the one advocating change - it is you that has to provide proof - it is not for me/others to prove it will not work
Of course trainers colours are not always a guide and I don't really care that much otherwise I would not support a trial of drivers colours if those that count wish it (saying that for the 3rd time now)
And so you got your finishing line
"So what you really want is a change for your sake to all in trainers colours?"
from your book of nonsense? Or did you think "Ah, this will be a clever little finish"
ps Whether recognize and remember are the same thing I am still happy to be the bookmaker
I’ve said previously but for clarification I have been talking about driver colours as a whole, not with regard to any one specific sector of the audience or industry.
No no document, I’ll try to remember to take a notebook with me on the track next time.
How so Kev that the benefit is way more for each driver? They don’t get paid for interviews. Corporate sponsorship is limited to some words on their pants so yes they may have a pair of driving pants given to them. They do not directly profit from the advice they provide on their drives or intentions in the run. In fact sharing that information likely reduces the price on any of their successful drives likely reducing the size of any sling if there were to be one, and they are much much rarer then in days gone by.
Newspaper is not the only form of media these days, and media savy has been lacking in the past. Some of our young drivers and presenters are very very savy in today’s social media environment, you only need to watch RWWAs twitter feed during GP on Friday nights or privateer Ash Brennan’s work from Menangle and some of the carnivals. Victoria is lagging behind in this space.
What proof do you want Kev, other countries have been driver colours for years. There has never previously been an opportunity in today’s social media environment to try driver colours as away to improve our connections with our audience current and hopefully future. The state of the industry should be enough proof that we cannot just simply continue doing what we have in the past.
Last edited by Dot; 07-16-2019 at 03:33 PM.
No Kev, I did entirely misread his original post but I think I understand now. I think Wayne is afraid promotion of driver colours in the industry will have some push for more or only use of professional drivers in the industry. As the industry needs the investment of everyone possible I don’t see anyone pushing for, let alone any restrictions being introduced that would alienate any sector.
Blue with yellow panel = -------
Green with yellow stars = ------ ----
Two great horses that raced solely in their trainers colours
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